The value of life. Is one more valuable than another? What makes someone alive? The world is absurd. — Waya

The value is YOU and we are all valuable, in our own ways.
This world is absurd when you look at it closely..... :eyes:

Virginia's governor, Democrat Ralph Northam, "When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And it's done in cases where there any be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So I think this was really blown out of proportion."
Being kept comfortable? By the way, there are MANY men that would want to at least be able to give HIS opinion about what is going to happen to THEIR baby
ONE country, The Netherlands has a compassionate law that with three doctors okay an infant has a right to die with dignity, essentially euthanizing the infant. BUT it is based on the health and prospect of the child in ADDITION to the woman AND it MUST be performed by a Doctor. Seems logical doesn't it? Here in the USA we have a place for such infants that are likely not viable but are born and that place is called "Hospice". My Mom worked Hospice and their facility had Pediatric Hospice certification as well. In the 15 yrs she was there, they had one infant, a little girl named Rosemary, who was born to a woman about my age, but the infant had an incomplete brainstem. The infant didn't make any sounds but could cry and open her eyes. It was absolutely tragic but it was what my Mom was trained in. That baby was never put down. Every shift, there was someone always holding her. Not because they weren't equipped with a crib and such but because how could anyone put down such a short life? The parents were able to bring the older brother to Hospice to see his sister and understand what is happening and to understand what happened to his long awaited sister? Would it happen to Mommy again? Heavy shit but Hospice made it as easy as possible. So until we catch up with the Netherlands, it is the best we can offer. Education, prenatal testing, prenatal health and a Doctor at the helm.

The proposed law in Virginia was to allow third term abortions to be performed by others not just Doctors. My guess is because DOCTORS especially OB/Gyn's that ACTIVELY deliver babies refuse to perform abortions because it breaks the Oath to do no harm. After my second child was born my OB/Gyn made it clear that I shouldn't have any more children as he didn't think my mental stress could handle it, seeing as my Post Partum Depression had worsened. I agreed and asked "In the event of my getting pregnant again, would I come to him for an abortion?" He said "No, you wouldn't come to me" to which I asked who would I go to? He said he couldn't refer me to anyone but that there are "clinics" out there where abortions are performed.
Okay, as we move through this we are finding out that more states are passing similar laws which didn't make it through Virginia but did in NY which is what I talking about in my post. I didn't have the time to cite it to @Baden satisfaction because of his obvious issue with Jay but anyway here is my citation for the NY law that did pass and what is not being covered is "the health of the mother" can be not just physically unable and choose to abort UP UNTIL the due date and in the Virginia proposal, the baby can be aborted WHILE the woman is dilatated for emotional or mental stabilities as well.
A little info on having babies: WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY and it is NOT NEW to determine MOST of the reasons a woman would consider abortion in the FIRST TRIMESTER which is the first 12 weeks.
To wait until the THIRD trimester is BULLSHIT! The only reason for a third trimester abortion is if the life of the mother is endangered like Eclampsia or like in my first son's birth a RAPID blood loss because his cord was not connected like it normally is and had my water broken on it's own, there was a really good chance that neither of us would have survived and IF it happened in delivery, I WOULD have bled out before they would be able to surgically save me but they would have been able to save my child.

The main reason for this is that you are not paying them enough. If you paid them like bankers, judges, and politicians, they would be perfect in every way. In the meantime, if you follow the guidelines, you won't go far wrong, and even if sometimes someone gets away with not following them, that does not entitle you to do the same. — unenlightened

I agree and will vote for a raise for you guys!
However the last part of the quote above sounds a bit like preferential treatment thinly veiled. Did I catch you right? :razz:

Where the f is the outrage??????? :brow:

I am going to tell you that passing a law that allows termination of a pregnancy up until the due date of the baby is BARBARIC! THAT IS so FUCKED UP!
I am utterly disgusted with Governor Como and to have the audacity to light up the Freedom Tower in Baby Pink to celebrate the passing of the law is just a sign of some fucked up twisted minds.
:scream: :rage: :down: :broken:

Ahem.... @Hanover where is my gigolo? :brow:

Would you mind if I borrowed your dog? You see, I'm not sure whether my incinerator is working. It seems to have gotten something wedged right in there, deep down inside. — S

Iff everything is "Goat" then yes, I can get ahold of an incinerator for you. :monkey:

Small talk eh?
The kids are great! The female rottie is out of heat and her cone of shame! It's 70* here and -50* in Chicago :razz: I am spending at least 5 hrs a day in Algebra and just started Effective Help in a Diverse World and Intro to Social Welfare. I am still eating nuts and leaves but have added coffee back into my regime thinking it helps with math. Surgery is going to be after May 1st because without the ability to use Opiates, I am thinking it will be better to be in pain without having to learn "The Story of 'X'" argggggggggh!!!
@Hanover Where is my gigolo? :eyes:

I am really not sure I am going to pass this intro to Algebra class my fellow Warrior :yikes:

I found it a little bit disturbing just how much I enjoyed making intentionally bad decisions just to see what would play out- it's probably a good thing that we can't 'replay' life, otherwise who knows what insane decisions we'd all make. . . — Ben92

Excellent self realization! :up:

You have tilt your head back so that your nose is very much in the air; then when you look down it at people, you will still be able to overlook them completely. We Brits are well used to the contortion, which we call 'condescension'. It does require sturdy boots though as one cannot see what or who one is treading on. — unenlightened

:rofl:

@Waya How is life treating you? Did the Dawn work?

I agree. I've written four books of fiction. — Baden

I KNEW IT! :starstruck:
What was your pen name?

Just read this. Your life is full to the brim already. What's an A.A. degree ?
And where do you get your energy ? Raw meat ? Nuts ? — Amity

Yay!!! An A.A. degree is an Associates Degree in Art (Crisis Communication as my focus) that is a transferable 2 year degree to a University. An A.A. degree can be earned at a Community College or the first two years at a University. The difference between the two is cost. A 3 credit class at a community college is about $300 a semester where at a state University here in AZ is $2,200 a semester.
It's funny that you ask where I get my energy from because a year ago I wouldn't have believed it myself but yeah I start my day with a 15 oz bottle of Kombucha instead of coffee with no loss of energy. I cut out all soda (reg and diet) moved to black tea through out the day and eat protein, fiber and fat in small amounts with a limit of 20 net carbs a day. I probably consume a cup of Pecans daily which I swear has more than a filling effect but it also has energy in it. Add a handful of Cherry tomatoes rounding the meal out with shavings of harder white cheeses like Parmesan or Romano? That's a meal! I am never hungry and despite my initial expectations, and I realize this sounds horrible but I actually have TOO much energy now. Right? Yeah, my body keeps wanting to go but my mind is like really? Still? :gasp:
Hence my return to school. :up:

I remember singing a song in my Mom's brand new Ford Fairmount that she bought for herself, with her own money, a HUGE undertaking for a single Mom of two. The song was "Cherish You" but all I heard and all I sang was "Cherry Shoe"!
You know...those almost black cherries that they keep behind the bar in an Italian home? OMG :heart:

Yaaaaaaaay Waaayyyaaa is here!!! :up:
It sounds like you are in transition which is never fun or tidy but in the end it is all worth it. :sparkle:
Dawn dish soap that they use on the Ducks that get covered in oil spills gets rid of fleas too.
Stay Strong :strong:

Pray that Mueller delivers this year. — Wallows

Okay but let's think this through before we desire a specific outcome. :pray:
If Muller is able to provide evidence that will give cause to remove the President, as I said before, that would make Mike Pence President, which for me is a scary enough idea but now?
Now? That would make Mike Pence President and Nancy Pelosi Vice President. :scream:
Now that would make for one hell of a shitfest burning in the bottom of a trash trashcan. :fire:

Why not conversations On Writing ? — Amity

Why not expand this into a "Short Story" writing contest?
Bragging rights are priceless around here. :wink:
Just ask @Benkei whose short story was about a trip to Oslow….EXCELLENT writing in that piece and in general has a very strong grip on story evolution and flow.
@Baden is a hard on grammar but almost always accurate and
@Michael , Michael, is so talented with the English language that I have wanted a pocket version of his knowledge and skills for years.
Oh and once "S" is findable in the search field, I would put his name up as probably the most "critical" thinker here but that might be a biased view. :razz:

You ain't no peng'un historian, Mikey. Don't be given papa Hanover no lip or you'll be in for a good hidin'. Your kind ain't welcome around these parts. Take your new spangled intellectualism elsewhere. You hear me, boy? — S

:starstruck: You put em in place S!

Stay happy, walk in the shade and don't talk to strangers unless they are firemen.

Probably the best advice I received for 2019 from another forum member! :cool:

Shit is hitting the fan. — Wallows

{{{Wallows}}} The "shit" is always hitting someone's fan. The trick is to move out of the way of someone else's fallout or learn to run faster that your own shitfest! :smirk:
I promise you, we are all going to be okay. :strong:

Wayyyaaa :flower:

His degree is Bachelors of Science not art. :wink:
Good Heavens! Literally! Less than an hour from where you grew up? Lucky man! :cool:
We have been trying to find a place in Prescott to offset the 10K a year ER charges in housing but even though the market is hot where our ranch is, there is just nothing up in Prescott that is where we would like to live and get connectivity to. Groom Creek is our final destination for our B&B so I just have to be patient till the housing market breaks in 2020 and then another 5 years till we are set to purchase again.

You would think that with a 80% male student body that the partying and porn would be everywhere but it is just not there. ~shrugs~ Personally and totally off topic, I think that males who are heavy in the intelligence are light in the social areas of life. Admissions suggested that if you are looking for a party school, keep looking. :eyes:

Virtual reality, simulated reality, augmented reality and immersive reality are the latest technologies that I am vaguely familiar with, only because my youngest son is Second year in the Bachelors of Science degree of Simulated Science, Gaming and Animation. The University he attends is an Aeronautical University that is Grant and privately funded. The "Grants" for the most part are from an arm of the DOD (Dept Of Defense) and the ancillary private companies that depend on leading edge technology and training. The AF ROTC at Embry Riddle is probably about 300 students of the 1600 total student body.

The Sim Science degree from ER is different in the sense that 1) my son's graduating class of 15 students will be the first graduating class with this degree 2) most VR/SR/AR/IR classes offer a certificate of graduation and if it is offered as Bachelors degree, then it is a Bachelors of Art.
The biggest difference that I can see so far is that the SimScience degree from ER is Math, Math and Math. Classes like "Discreet structures" to me would seem like how to hide a silo or a detention center in the center of a population without being noticed? Good guess seeing as many of the students from ER graduate into an "ABC" government position right? Wrong. So, so wrong.
Discreet structures is MATH! MATH! MATH!

Unfortunately, the students that attend ER are not really the ones working on how to advance porn in the VR world but maybe one adventurous soul will see the $$$$ in it and adjust their logarithms. :smirk:

Did you like the idea of it? What kind of endings did you see? Did it make you think? About what? — Lif3r

Good lord, can I have the 45 minutes I wasted on this loop of a no plot movie clip back please?
Both the males in the house watches it independently of one another and my youngest said he wanted top get me to the Netflix choice. Oie Ve!
I guess if you have to dictate everything that happens and have a super short memory, it might be appealing but to me it is nothing more than a confuzzled mess that I don't have the time to try to follow.
Forgive me, I am not a good representation of what Movies/series are good because I am still watching the West Wing. The Cheney lover in me will never die. :heart: :fire: :sparkle:

Send all the newcomers to Montana and Wyoming. There are only two persons per square kilometer in those states, hence a lot empty area for people to fit there. And basically there are so few people now in those states that their objections don't matter (as elections go). And the foreigners wanting to come to the US will think twice before coming to Montana and Wyoming (as New York and California are off limits). And if people Still want to come, well, the two states are in for an economic boom as they have to basically build new cities for the newcomers. — ssu

ssu, my voice of reason in arm chair immigration debates. :razz:
I jokingly suggested when I was younger and many immigration waves ago, when our nations borders were patrolled by INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services) that we just give them Jersey while standing among those who hail from Jersey. I am not sure if you have met someone from New Jersey but they are much like me, hailing from Chicago, in that we take our home town very seriously and any reason to get puffed up chest about them and we will. :smirk:

We really did have this conversation but we arrived at the destination of Idaho. Idaho would temporarily make a great sanctuary state. There is plenty of room, no I didn't look at the population count (we were in a bar) and we were going off of well....Idaho.... :razz:
Okay, so we have an actual location for those people we can reasonably take into our society.
Now that we have a place, we need basic amenities of life: shelter, food, health care, education and respected religious beliefs.
Now what? We cannot expect those who arrive with nothing to know the language, know our customs or know our laws, can we?
The "economic boom" that Idaho would experience would be based on what? Need?
We have homeless citizens in Idaho that we already cannot provide for, if building them a city would help, we would have already built one. Building housing is a very short term solution if you have no money to build a city or a way to create an infrastructure to support the city then you cannot provide the basic needs of life for yourself and must be assisted.
How deep does that assistance go? Well if we are in living in a Utopian world, there would be no bottom of the well of assistance.
But we live in reality and a bottomless well of Utopia does not exist on my ranch and I don't know that it exists anywhere in the USA.
However my ranch, my Utopian desires to help all in need does not make my well any deeper or any more productive. In fact, the water well I have on my ranch, I share with my neighbor, it is both of our blessing and liability. Since we are out in the foothills of the mountains, further away from the city we are able to tap our property for water, which (thank goodness) is still wet.
However in the last 2 years there has been a housing boom in the city and the urban sprawl creeps closer and finally into our community. 30 years ago you couldn't purchase less than 40 acres of this desert at a time, which the original ranch owner did and was only able to sell them off at 7 acres at a time. When she first arrived 30 years ago, she had one well drilled for herself which now serves both of our ranches and the livestock we own.
The houses that have been going in the last two years have been zoned as one home per acre, two acres per private well. I am not sure how good you are at math but I can tell you that there is a lot more taps into our water we retrieve from the ground. How long will it take before I turn on the water hose and nothing comes out?
Will the HUGE undertaking of drilling a deeper well be covered under our home owners insurance policy? No Sir. Will the $5000 sitting in the "Water Well Account" be enough to cover the charges for a new well, IF they can find water?
Not a flippin chance since that estimate was given 15 years ago.
Now, some of the homes that were built on an acre or less are promoting "City Water! Luxury Lot!" which means that our community has already reached our well capacity.
It seems stable at the moment but ssu, the ranch up the street has decided to offer up stabling of others horses for a small monthly fee, $200 per horse. It is a screaming deal for those who are paying for hauled water or are paying for city water but for those of us on wells? It doesn't cost a cent for the extra water being consumed when you take a ranch of 4 horses and are now watering 25 horses! Woo Hoo! What a deal for those providing the service! Yipppieeee!!!...…
...wait.... :brow: What used to be a "fair draw" of water for your privately owned horses for 4 has now gone to 25? 25 horses on one well, to be shared by two ranches?
Confuzzled look as to what to do, who is responsible and what laws do we need to put in place to protect such loopholes from occurring with a resource as precious in the Southwestern desert as water?
Who do I go to when my well runs dry? Do I go to the ranch who has 25 horses on their little side business and inform them that THEY are partially responsible for my well going dry and I certainly hope they set aside enough of their little profit to handle the legal proceedings they are going to incur?
Even after my front door rant, even after my being taken away by the local Sheriff for not obeying orders to "pipe down", even after the po-po ride where I am able to make my case and the Sheriff AGREES with me because his ranch has gone dry too, I will still be left with no legal recourse.
Myself, my neighbor and the rest of us ranch owners will have to pay for city water as hauling it will become a novelty. Why? Because if you own horses or cattle you need well water. Not because they cannot consume city water but because no one can afford to maintain horses/cattle on bottled water. That doesn't include the water necessary to maintain the health of the animals, bathing, removing manure from human areas ect.
Now the ranchers that have been here know this, the newbies don't and there is always someone in the neighborhood that is willing to sell their soul to make a buck. When the ranchers well goes dry, he either thins the herd, sells the herd or keeps the herd and sells the farm to relocate further up out of the city.
What do you suppose is going to happen to the ranch up the street that has been stabling/supporting 25 horses on their well and it goes dry? My guess is there is going to be a rash of calls to the horse owners, to come get their horses, which they cannot stable on their acre property that now has a pool in the backyard. What is the horse owner going to do? Pay for the bottled water that they WOULD have been paying for if they had stabled on property? :rofl: Not a flippn chance because they have NO idea what it costs, for they have never had to go without water and frankly, what is happening at the "ranches" who have water wells really doesn't affect them because they have been paying for city water at their property the whole 2 years since they moved out here.
My forecast? When our wells go dry, as they likely will, regardless of the last 30 yrs of never having it lose pressure let alone go dry, those with older animals will likely pay for the bottled water, which they never budgeted for or relocate. The horse owners who were boarding their horses with no water charge will give up the hobby because of the expense and once again our desert will be disgraced with people who let their pets go into the wild to fend for themselves or another 'feeder farm' will appear and stain our animal loving community.
How deep does the well of assistance go?
Maybe Montana and Wyoming have a better idea of how to handle it for what we came up with is not sustainable.

I'm depressed, not like that's an excuse. :smile: — frank

I hope life is treating you better since I asked. :sparkle:
Depression isn't an excuse but it does explain the shift sometimes. :flower:

Imagine a long list of beautiful images of American Latinos that I can't post because this forum is crap. — frank

This seems a bit out of sorts for you frank, is everything okay?

You mean, a bunch of people within the community cannot handle it psychologically, or...? — S

Not psychologically and you can leave that notion in your head, from which it stems and stop trying to project it onto others. No matter how many times you try, the spaghetti is not going to stick to the wall. :roll:
What I mean is our resources to provide physical care, medical care, provide mental health care, education and to protect the influx of our Southern neighbors, in addition to the needs of our own citizens who are in their own dire straits has reached capacity.
We have citizens in need like the California community of Paradise, where 196 of their 200 high school athletes, were made homeless overnight. Where the teachers and senior citizens who have nothing and I do mean NOTHING and no time left in life to rebuild. Do they not deserve the financial help and attention that they paid into our society for their whole lives to keep them, the poor elderly off the streets?

First, it's important for me to ask this crucial question...

Where is my $%^&%# latte!!!! :smile: — Jake

:lol: Not yet brewed. Waiting on the frost to melt with a little sunshine before I am venturing out into the desert which is sitting at 35*f.

Of less importance is the obvious question which we never seem to get around to asking, let alone answering.
What is the appropriate population for America? — Jake

That is an excellent question for the macro level thinkers but what I am speaking of is our ability, as a state which is a collective of communities, to deal with the influx of those in need. We are a giving community but we have our limits.

As example, the population of the United States has doubled in my life time. Is that good or bad, a problem or a solution? How much is enough, how much is too much? — Jake

If you could entertain this idea for me, it might show representatively, what I believe is "too much".
If we think of a stable base of a community as a dried out sponge, we are capable of absorbing many, many drops of water without reaching the sponges capacity. Once the sponge has reached it's capacity to absorb even one more drop of water, when one droplet hits the sponge it sends off hundreds of little droplets in every direction of the saturated sponge. The only way for the sponge to absorb more water is to wring it out and then and only then, can the sponge begin the absorption process again.
So to answer your question, how much is too much for my community, my state? It is when one more droplet of water sends of thousands of little droplets out in ever direction with no plan on how to wring it out.

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

As the media focuses on the war of words between President Trump and the Democrats, we the citizens of Arizona, continue to try to keep the flow of illegal immigrants off the streets, safe and health issues taken care of.
Since October of this year, over 10,000 illegal immigrants have been released by ICE at the Grey Hound bus station with nothing but a bus pass, picked up by faith groups, cared for until they can contact a family member already in the USA or they can chose to leave and live on the streets of our state.
Illegal or not, our community cannot handle the influx at the rate that we are looking at.
Is there a community in the USA that we can direct some of those seeking political asylum?
They are not able to legally work in your community but the government will process their claim ASAP.

It made me cry inside. — Michael

Awww come ere and I'll give you a hug with permission of course~ :ok:
I wish I could give you the bullshit advice that @Hanover would and say it will only get worse and worse but...BUT...one of the beauties of getting older is that the facts get fuzzy so the reconciliation between what we had then and what we have now are put into their proper order. :flower:

After weighing it up, I think I'm against impeachment for the practical reason that it would lead to Pence becoming president, and for the ideological reason of opposing his political views - even more so than the current president's. — S

And we are again, walking on the same side of the street of absurdity~ :hearts:

But I found this place. — Amity

:halo: Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Don't sell out. — Hanover

Keep in mind the above advice is coming from someone who gets a % of any money he brings in for you. :razz:

I've decided I'm going to quit my job to pursue arguing with people over the internet full time. — S

But you are already a pro at that! :kiss: You can bury people all day long with your logic and reason but like leading a horse to water, the masses will never believe you my dear friend~

Figure out what to do with my life. I think I’m having a decades-early midlife crisis. I blame my brother for reminding me of how much fun I was having years ago. — Michael

Michael, this made me laugh out loud! :smirk:

I'm going to try to discourage people. — Hanover

I am going to try to read one book a week and ENCOURAGE others to do so as well. :up: