That is really off topic. — Athena

I respectfully choose to disagree with you that it is in anyway "off topic".

The topic here is what Trump is doing to our democracy and I hope that is where the discussion stays. — Athena

Once again, my cited point made by our current Vice President's position, is not something I agree with at all. I am 100% against it and to not be able to see the far reaching implications, of what regressing back to when ALL of our citizens rights were not protected is VERY short sighted.

Please do not derail it with your homosexual agenda. — Athena

We really need a "head spinning" emoticon. If MY standing up for the right of every citizen expressing their own free will is an "agenda" to you? Than have at it. My position is reason based and will remain so until facts are presented to the contrary and then I will reconsider my position.

Seeing the two subjects as the same thing is what is destroying our democracy! Our logic is all messed up! — Athena

I am very comfortable with my logic, though I am not in a position to say the same for yourself, that is for you to deal with.

Surely Trump got his knowledge of running a nation from Hitler — Athena

:shade: :down: :roll:

Why do you say that? — frank

Because until OUR laws protect the free will of ALL of our citizens, including the freedom to chose who we love, despite any gender acknowledgements, I will stand up to this shit as long as I live.

His running mate, Pence, publicly opposed the Obama administration's repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. “There’s no question to mainstream homosexuality within active duty military would have an impact on unit cohesion,” Pence wrote on his website. He added that“Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexuals as a 'discrete and insular minority’ entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities."

Impeach, then Senate to remove. — Michael

The Senate has a lower approval rating than President Trump and so who are they to judge?

We can't see into Donald Trump's heart so as to know if he's intentionally abandoned allegiance to the US. — frank

Okay, hold up your horses before we get way too far away from the ranch.
I agree with you that we cannot see into President Trump's heart and that is where allegiance lays so I would back away from impeachment as far as possible if I were a democrat.
Think about the true repercussions of impeaching the current sitting President.
I am not saying 'this' is a sound proof reason to dismiss the idea of the probability of successfully impeaching the President but that would make: Mike Pence current Vice President of the USA :fear:
President Pence is a very scary idea so please, be very careful what you wish for and strive for litigiously.

I thank Wallows for toughing it out in a tough world. — Nils Loc

This is a beautiful thing to read Nils~ :heart:

I will continue on in college taking three classes this Spring semester after taking my first class back this Fall after a 21yr break to be at home and raise the kids.
Victimology/Crisis Management, Bio and Abnormal Psychology. Three classes left on my A.A. degree and two years on my Bachelor's.
Look out world! I am rested, knowledge hungry and ready to go!!! :strong:

Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday to you as well~
We are happy you are here at The Philosophy Forum site.
Cheers to all that is bright! :sparkle:

Hmmmmm…. seems like a genuine expression of gratitude.
I Thank you @Wallows :flower:

Me too!

BTW, I was joking, and hope you are too.

And hey, where is my latte already??? :smile: — Jake

Ah yes I knew you were joking but alas I had to show you where the line is :halo:
So how about we go out for a coffee after we sling 15 bales of hay to the animals? I will drive slow and you can toss the 130lb bales off as we make our way to the Thirsty Lizard for some good desert brew. :up:
Game? :point:

I'm not at all sure what, exactly, the war on terror was supposed to be. — Bitter Crank

When I break down the idea of a "war on terror" I read that we are essentially trying to eliminate that feeling of being 'terrorized' from our experiences of 9.11 here in America or the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris.
From our own personal experiences we can point to an event that made us feel so vulnerable, so unsafe, so under personal attack that we are "terrorized" to the inner core of our beings.
That same place within us where our heart holds our family safe, our sacred pledge of worship is free to bare, our deep interpersonal connections with our friends are strong and by extension our community thrives.
Which makes it seem like an impossibility to remove, declare "war" on or try to wipe off the face of the Earth, a human need that resides in all of us. I realize it might sound hokey but what is being "terrorized" is our place of safety, security and inner peace, not the actual Twin Towers or the head office of a satirical news paper.
I guess what I am trying to say is that to think that a "war" on a human experience is something that can be "won" would be to believe in folly. ssu is right in that both parties have very long memories and so I ask, who drew first blood and what is the score?

Stop fooling around feeding those stupid homeless people and bring me a latte bitch, and I mean RIGHT NOW! — Jake

Umm... EXCUSE me? :brow:
Ahem. It would be a bad way to start the day with that attitude in my presence.
I am up at 4:00 am every morning, including weekends, in all weather, feeding the animals and mucking their stalls BEFORE I make my first cup of coffee. So if you think for a single, dingle berry moment, that I am going to respond positively to your little pompus demands, sprinkled with vulgarity, you obviously don't know me and my memory very well.
I will let this one go because of the thread we are in but address a forum member like that again and my response will be quite different in nature.
Is there any confusion in what I am suggesting? I hope not because I think you are pretty cool and I would like to think of you that way rather than an entitled, trust fund baby under the influence of the Race for the Gray movement. Those who tell you to slow down and get off your lawn!
Tiff

Woo hoo! Congratulations on gaining freedom and the key of responsibilty! :party:
When do we get to come over? :grin:

I have walked this walk at times — Jake

As have I and those are the ties that bind us. :sparkle:
Personally, from what interaction I have had with you, you hardly come across as a self righteous, entitled yuppie. :wink:

I saw it too! :flower:

I STILL don't get how lucky I am. — Jake

To start with I must confess I do not believe in "luck". I will admit that good fortune (in all it's forms not just money) may be involved but it was not just a matter of chance that your parents provided the life that they did for you. And it is not simply by chance that you have made it to where you are in life, you have actively made decisions to get to where you are.
Now that I have explained that part of my response to your post, if I could, I would like to offer up a suggestion on how to beat back the importance you are placing on the plethora of idiots around you.
Rise one morning amongst the constant barking of the dogs, paying attention to the mood it sets you in. Drive downtown, in front of the tailgaters that ride you till they agressively blow past you and allow yourself to get steamed!
But once you get to your destination, which surprise is a homeless shelter where volunteers are welcomed daily, let what you see, feel and learn about others that we know are less fortunate guide you into appreciating the fortune you have in your life. In sharing time, being with others less fortunate than ourselves, we often walk away with a deeper appreciation for what we have been blessed with to have in our lives. :heart:

@Hanover
Did you need someone to care for your elephant/puppy when you go visit Sarah Palin? :eyes:

Well know that we are a community of good people across the world so don't hesitate to reach out if you think we can help. :strong:

Thank you for the kind sentiment, but I don’t feel safe anywhere. — Noah Te Stroete

I am sorry you feel unsafe. Is there anyway to change your feeling?

I don't know of any PM campaign to expose you but I would hope you feel safe here.

I stated, “I believe”, not issuing it as “fact”. — Noah Te Stroete

Okay but you understand that a "belief" is based on emotion right? That is why when you start a thread about a topic, in the lounge or not, logical questions based in facts, are to be expected.

I believe tough guys in general have latent homo/bisexual ideations/tendencies. — Noah Te Stroete

You stated that. Maybe a better approach would be to ask a question as opposed to stating your "belief". I am trying to figure out what you are trying to gain from this thread.

This the lounge. I don’t have to cite data. — Noah Te Stroete

Fair enough. Enjoy yourself :flower:

The police officers who are stalking me (several of them) tried to solicit me for sex, offering me $500 to join them at a motel. They are all married to women. I suspect this is common in their profession. — Noah Te Stroete

Why were they "stalking" you? And if they offered you $500 to join them, why not just turn them down as opposed to making a hasty generalization that police officers have this superiority complex?
I doubt very highly that this is common conduct as a police officer.

Just to pull back some of the haze on your clarity. Please cite where you are getting the stated fact of: "most male police officers are latent homosexuals or at least bi-sexuals".
Because once you can cite that we can move onto your citing your source for the even less substantiated "It's the tough guys who have a problem with their own sexuality."
Are you a police officer? Have you had a close personal relationship where you got to know the person behind the badge? Have you ever hugged a police officer, no matter their sexual preference?
Please, expand

Nothing to see here....moving on....
I noticed something else. The length of my posts, the depth and detail is astoundingly longer than yours. Probably not the first time you have heard that before. :rofl:

I think it might be part basset hound because of the big ears. He sure does go through his chew toys though! — Hanover

You truly only read the opening line and the last line of a post, don't you? :roll:

I got a new puppy today at the corner market. He's very playful. — Hanover

Mmmm Hanover, that is an awfully big puppy you have there. Are you a "trust fund" middle aged but sure would like to be retired confused male? I have witnessed this phenomenon more than once with people our age. The males see the children moving out and onto college as a ticket to party! Time to put ME first! Time to kick back in your comfy pants, on the couch, drinking beers and taking in the game without any interruptions.
The same phenomenon happens in females at about our age but it looks very different. The women see the children moving out and onto college as a way to move on the "next" aspiration in life. Many women go back to work outside of the home, some continue their education to launch their career that they might have put on hold to raise the children.
I see a slight difference between the two set of "new" goals, to obtain the "who" we were before entering into a lifetime change of having children but maybe that is the crux.
See my Godchildren's Father is already planning where he is going to redirect his income once they move out. The boat he is going to keep off a Bay in San Diego, downsize from the current location and invest in two homes, one in the cold region of AZ and one here in the Valley and the new truck and...and...and...
Well? I agreed to provide my eldest indian sundries for the first 6 months after moving out and I have done so along with any food I can divert his way. He will always have a room here at home and we are a single vehicle household and will continue to be.
Maybe it is a current day 'mid life crisis' playing out where the men invest $ in what they want and women invest in themselves.
Hmmmmm…..
Cute puppy :love:

Killing yourself on the The Philosophy Forum, the leading forum of professional kibitzers this side of the Milky Way, would set a bad example. And it would be in bad taste. `Etiquette is so important. Blowing yourself up is just rude.

You are too important to the health of our kibitzeria to depart now. We expect you to be here for the next 10 years, minimum. We need you. We want you. — Bitter Crank

BC is right on target my friend. We NEED you. We WANT you! And suicide has a contagious factor. Once you have "a" suicide in your family tree, it is very hard not to see suicide as an easy way out.
WE are a family here at TPF and WE need you and we NEED to maintain a suicide free history for WE are here to support anyone that needs it and "Posty"@Wallows, we love you~

2. Failed suicide attempts can be extremely painful physically and psychologically. They could also lead to permanent disability. If the point of suicide is to reduce suffering, then this could make the problem worse. — TheHedoMinimalist

For me? There is no better argument against trying to commit suicide than yours above.

Maybe a combination of age, service, and education and testing. Why not? Maybe with educated voters we wouldn't have got the orange pig. — tim wood

Pardon me tim, but I am of age, have served my community, am college educated and continuing on with further formal education, have passed the testing given and I voted for Trump. Suffice it to say that your suggestions would not have given our election a different outcome as I am proof of that.

And those who fail would have sometinhg to think about. — tim wood

I am still not sure that the Democrats have gotten over the failure to even think about where things went wrong. The first step is to admit you have a problem and the DNC as recent as Friday still believes in their heart of hearts that President Trump is not really OUR president and the resistance continues.

The best thing President Trump can do is find out what the DNC takes for granted and address the issues of those....oh the forgotten middle class....wait, he is doing that.

In a blink of an eye, this term will be over and what will the DNC have to offer? A "Not Him" strategy?

Now, I can honestly say that I have continued to blunder all the way to age 72, though the ratio of blunders to good decisions has improved in favor of good decisions. — Bitter Crank

That is my answer then BC. 72 years old is when a person should legally make their own decisions. :up:

So I met the Lizard people in the parking lot and was relieved to see a "I love Vegans" decal on their car because I was worried that Sebastian and Mr. Poppy were going to be live food for a bigger lizard.
I explained to the 17yr old girl and her Mom that they are cold right now in the boxes and calm but as soon as you pick them up and the heat of you hands warm him, they skitter like no ones business. So I suggested they wait until they are home, not in the car, to take them out.
The Lizards were happy and I am too because now I can finally get their tanks out of the ranch house. :clap:

Democracy is dying, then. But to paraphrase Mark Twain, reports of the birth of Democracy have been greatly exaggerated. — FreeEmotion

Well I am sure glad somebody told me that Democracy is dying because it seems alive and well, doing better than last year in my neck of the woods.
If Democracy is dying then I can go back to bed and someone else will take care of things?
Because, frankly, I have been working my ass off for the last 40 of my 48 year life, trying to stay vigilant in knowing that our Democracy is alive, living and therefore needs tending too just like a garden or raising a child.
No, Tiff, you cannot just go back to bed, reality and the future have NOT been cancelled and we need everyone's participation to make our Democracy work. It doesn't happen all on it's own. The garden does not weed itself, water itself and keep the food safe, we do. The children of ours' do not raise themselves, we do. If "democracy is dying" then it is up to us to get her healthy again. It is what we do, it is what makes the American democracy (which is the one I participate in) what it is, stepping up instead of stepping out is who we are, it is the very spirit in which our democracy operates on.
Are you sure it's dying? :brow:

@Hanover Back to the Lizard in my ranch...actually there are two...for about another 3 hrs before they are rehomed. Sebastian and Mr. Poppy (who is actually a girl) are going to a new home today. Not in the cages but in two boxes because they don't get along.
They are my sons' and he sold them so I am to take these Lizards to the corner grocery store at Noon and meet these folks in the parking lot, that are going to text me and give me $20.00 for them.
It absolutely has the feel of "dealing" and I know these Lizards are not endangered but do you think I should wear the trench coat all the same? :chin:

I would take the dude in Michael's post over Fabio any day and EVERY day of the week. Please..... you would literally have to fight for mirror space getting ready in the morning with Fabio. :down:

If I may share a piece with this thread that I came across recently that really illustrated what the day after your choice to commit suicide will look like and why maybe there is a better way...

“The Morning After I Killed Myself” is a poem by 22-year old Meggie Royer, who writes at Writings for Winter. She has two published poetry collections, “Survival Songs” and “Healing Old Wounds With New Stiches.” Her Poem, “The Morning After I Killed Myself,” is a message about the finality of suicide, the impact it has on loved ones, and the lost opportunity for a better day.

“The Morning After I Killed Myself”

The morning after I killed myself, I woke up.

I made myself breakfast in bed. I added salt and pepper to my eggs and used my toast for a cheese and bacon sandwich. I squeezed a grapefruit into a juice glass. I scraped the ashes from the frying pan and rinsed the butter off the counter. I washed the dishes and folded the towels.

The morning after I killed myself, I fell in love. Not with the boy down the street or the middle school principal. Not with the everyday jogger or the grocer who always left the avocados out of the bag. I fell in love with my mother and the way she sat on the floor of my room holding each rock from my collection in her palms until they grew dark with sweat. I fell in love with my father down at the river as he placed my note into a bottle and sent it into the current. With my brother who once believed in unicorns but who now sat in his desk at school trying desperately to believe I still existed.

The morning after I killed myself, I walked the dog. I watched the way her tail twitched when a bird flew by or how her pace quickened at the sight of a cat. I saw the empty space in her eyes when she reached a stick and turned around to greet me so we could play catch but saw nothing but sky in my place. I stood by as strangers stroked her muzzle and she wilted beneath their touch like she did once for mine.

The morning after I killed myself, I went back to the neighbors’ yard where I left my footprints in concrete as a two year old and examined how they were already fading. I picked a few daylilies and pulled a few weeds and watched the elderly woman through her window as she read the paper with the news of my death. I saw her husband spit tobacco into the kitchen sink and bring her her daily medication.

The morning after I killed myself, I watched the sun come up. Each orange tree opened like a hand and the kid down the street pointed out a single red cloud to his mother.

The morning after I killed myself, I went back to that body in the morgue and tried to talk some sense into her. I told her about the avocados and the stepping stones, the river and her parents. I told her about the sunsets and the dog and the beach.

The morning after I killed myself, I tried to unkill myself, but couldn’t finish what I started.

Likewise, religious iconography is not full of penises, but male penises are a human embodiment of the cosmic or spiritual principle of the Phallus. — DiegoT

And we are in the lounge...

No one has ever actually seen me, either on this board or anywhere. I'm a Ninjew. I just made that up. I know it sounds like that's one I've been saving for just the right time, but, no, it's a Hanoriginal. I'm on fire. Fire I tell you. — Hanover

Okay I am willing to continue this reply here in the lounge.
@Hanover I could have sworn I saw a picture of you but then I began to wonder if my mind was playing tricks on me. If this is not you, then whom is in my house?

What do you view as symbols for eternity and stability?

@Hanover 's looks. :up:

@VMF
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Love your nickname!

@leo Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
We are glad you are here~