• A modest proposal - How Democrats can win elections in the US
    1) Palestine's sovereignty. I guess Democrats are pro-Palestine, but I don't know if it is an important matter amongst the votersjavi2541997

    I think Palestinian sovereignty is the right thing, but it is a fraught issue here in the US and it's not clear to me who it helps. Both Jewish and Arabic voters tend to vote Democratic. One or the other is going to be pissed off no matter what you do.T Clark

    It's no secret that the Israel lobby holds great sway over American politics, and the lobby must have been on the side of the Republicans, since the Democrats have been trying to put pressure on Israel whereas the Republicans have expressed support.

    The Israel lobby represents a diverse collection of special interests, and their influence extends to far more demographic fields than just American Jews.

    As the situation in the Middle-East worsens, which is likely to happen under Trump, the lobby will ramp up their efforts to secure support from the US government.

    With Israel on the cusp of regional war, in my opinion it is almost unthinkable that an American president is elected who is critical of Israel in any meaningful way.
  • Post-truth
    And anyone who seems to JUST read Noam Chomsky will only have that perspective and regurgitating only his ideas.

    I was waiting for you to name-drop him, as this inability to understand what I'm talking about is common among those who don't read much more than his writings.
    Christoffer

    You asked me for substance. I gave you substance.

    If you think I view your offhand dismissal of Chomsky as anything other than clownesque posturing I'm afraid you are wrong.

    You simply prove that you're not really interested in anything I have to say, which is why I haven't been taking this conversation particularly seriously. It begs the question, if you're not interested then why do you keep writing these cramped replies? :chin:
  • Post-truth
    If you really need to be given proof for the major influence governments have on public opinion then you must have been living under a rock for the past couple decades.

    If you need a place to start I would read Manufactoring Consent by Noam Chomsky.
  • Post-truth
    Ignoring the largest contributor to our modern world, social media. The elite do not have that much control over those channels, [...]Christoffer

    Yes, that's my point.

    Today the media dominance of the western elites has been broken, which is why now all of a sudden people are starting to notice something is wrong.

    Guess what: it has been this way for decades, but because there was very little to stir up the echo chambers most people didn't notice.

    If you find it difficult to believe that government elites conspire against the common people, I don't know what to tell you. Open your eyes?
  • Post-truth
    I could stand on a street corner in Washington DC and pass out flyers [...]Wayfarer

    The difference with systems like China and Russia is that at least there it is clear the population has little to no agency.

    In the West, populations have been tricked into believing that they are in charge when in fact they are not - a much more effective way of placating a population, because it keeps them ignorant and/or guessing as to who their masters are.

    I'm not sure whether it's endearing or grotesque that you would suggest handing out flyers in the face of the influence of the MIC, big business, powerful lobbies and establishment elites.
  • Post-truth
    Wouldn't that require complete abandonment of culture and society, medicine and technology?Wayfarer

    No, it would just require people to become highly selective in what sources of information they initially trust.

    Turn off the television, stop watching "the news", stop using social media. Touch grass, talk to your neighbor, see what's real.

    If you actually read and understand me first you would understand that I argue that post-truth is a problem within the public itself and their relation to truth and how to evaluate who's honest and who's a liar. Communist regimes used and use state violence methods to craft narratives that the public follow by force or indoctrination, it's not the same thing as what post-truth is about.Christoffer

    Oh, I disagree with that definition of post-truth. People in general do not become delusional voluntarily. Some outside force is necessary, like a corrupt government elite that feeds them propaganda, and uses censorship to block off all roads to the truth.

    Since the end of the Cold War, western governments (with the US at the helm) have dominated the information landscape and abused that position to influence their population in a way that can only aptly be described as 'brainwashing'.

    Communist regimes functioned in exactly the same way, essentially holding a monopoly on information within the totalitarian state.

    Today, that western/elite domination of media has been broken, hence we notice something is terribly wrong and call it 'post-truth'. But we have been living in this 'post-truth' reality since 1991 onward, and it started perhaps even before that.

    The difference is that now large amounts of people are able to tell something's wrong, which they simply couldn't before due to the totality of the propaganda system.
  • Post-truth
    Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Any return to "fairness" ideals would be treated as an assault on free speech. The dark corollary of free speech is the right to lie. So the only thing we can hope to do is to help people learn to seek truth.Relativist

    I think people generally prefer truth over lies, and they also absolutely hate being tricked, so at least there are natural forces which ought to nudge people towards truth.

    The problem is, all sources of authority have adopted 'post-truth'; governments, international institutions, media, science - it's all tainted.

    It appears the only way forward is for the common people to completely reject traditional sources of information, and rebuild the truth from the bottom up. I suppose it's just a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down and people will be forced to do so.

    What I'm about is some minimum degree responsibility and accountability, and in gentler times these things usually just flow. But not now. Where once folks were more-or-less responsible and accountable, now they're not. And either we have them or we don't. I say we should have them, and where folks deny them, to impose them.tim wood

    The issue is that the very governments who would impose on people are part of the problem. When was the last time you heard of a government holding itself accountable and acting responsibly?

    On the subject of how individualism fostered the post-truth society, [...]Christoffer

    Surely you are aware of the questionable relationship history's various collectivist projects had with the truth? Hell, it was the commies who formed the OG post-truth societies.
  • Post-truth
    Trump didn't cause the problem; he exploited it and exacerbated it.Relativist

    But so did the establishment media, no?

    The establishment has dominated the media for decades. They have operated on 'post-truth' principles for just as long.

    The difference is that now there are multiple actors operating on 'post-truth' principles and the resulting bullshit cacophony makes it impossible not to notice something is wrong.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    I agree. Bernie would probably have comfortably won against Trump, even back in 2016, just because he is a normal man with normal views and seems to possess a moral backbone (a rarity in politics).

    I spent some time wondering why the Democrats went with circus candidates instead of him, but then the obvious conclusion came: Bernie is just as big of a threat to the neocon establishment as Trump is.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    The problem is that things like this becomes a foundation for conclusions that doesn't correlate with the specifics of the criticism.Christoffer

    The foundation of my opinion is intuition, and I am unashamed to admit it.

    I don't expect anyone to take it seriously, but alas here we are.

    Intuitions lead to investigations, and, lowe and behold, investigations lead to indications that something is fishy.

    For example, let's stop the ongoing trend of nose jobs. The regret rate among patients is at an average 16.4%. Since this leads to mental health issues such as "Body Dysmorphic Disorder", depression, anxiety and "Post-Surgical Dissatisfaction" with many returning for correction that only deepens the problems, I suggest that we should ban nose jobs in society.

    Why isn't this an equal issue in society seen as how many go through with it?
    Christoffer

    Yea, why isn't it? I would say the normalization of cosmetic surgery is a serious issue, actually. I can't think of anything more damaging to say to a young person than "You are, indeed, not good enough and we should mutilate you to make you better".

    Do note that I said nothing about bans, but I'm glad my argument sounds authoritative enough that it would merit a ban. Just something to think about...

    Why is it that transgender people gets this much critique?Christoffer

    I don't remember the last time "society" was being blamed for the high rates of suicide among recipients of cosmetic surgery.

    That, and the fact that transgender viewpoints are finding their ways into children's classrooms which is obviously not where they belong.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    So, basically you're just pushing the same unsubstantiated ideasChristoffer

    No, there are actually large reservations to be had with the figure posted.





    This is probably the most highly-esteemed platform for investigative journalism in the Netherlands.

    But of course I am just a "transphobe", blablabla... :yawn:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Open a new thread if you want to continue discussing.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    It's not accurate to consider regret a major factor. It's 1 to 2%.Benkei

    I straightforwardly mistrust those statistics (Zembla made some interesting programs about the topic). But then again, I'm not saying adults shouldn't be allowed to live in whatever way they desire.

    I'm simply taking issue with blaming high suicide rates on "society" when that society is doing everything it can to be accomodating, while people are subjecting themselves to these kinds of extreme and irreversible procedures.

    But yea, this is getting off-topic.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    It's basically just transphobia.Christoffer

    Not really. I don't hate or fear trans people - I support any adult's right to choose.

    However, when you start blaming a society that's bending over backwards to accomodate trans people, I am not going to sugar coat things.

    When this thing that on the surface looks like it would destroy your mental health starts actually destroying people's mental health, how is that in any way surprising?
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    The only criminal thing is the high suicide rates among LGBTQ+ due to the still existing stigma and behavior against them.Christoffer

    The world is bending over backwards to affirm trans people in what is clearly a delusion (that men can become women and women can become men), so I'm not sure what more can be expected.

    Some people are always going to refuse to accept what is in their view clearly a lie (and a harmful one, at that), and such is their right.

    What happens when youthful beauty fades, biological realities set in and people realize they have mutilated their own bodies, sterilized themselves, committed themselves to a life-time of medication on the basis of a fantasy that can never be realized? People get suicidal.

    It's extremely sad, but unsurprising.
  • Abortion - Why are people pro life?
    Philo-babble usually precedes unfortunate conclusions.


    The question is whether or not you think potential life has value, and whether or not it can be terminated with impunity.

    AND

    Whether or not you feel like governments should get a say in any of it.


    'Yay for 1 (ergo. potential life has value, and cannot be terminated with impunity) and 'Nay' for 2 (governments should not be given the power to decide whether or not women shall give birth).


    So the question becomes, how do we deal with moral issues that cannot be arbitrated by governments?

    Well, we can't, really.


    It turns out some things should be left to people to figure out amongst themselves, because governments can't be trusted with the kind of power that would allow them to decide otherwise.
  • Post-truth
    'Post-truth' is a system the US establishment has created, which might indeed be described as such. Trump moves within that system, but he isn't the cause or even a principal part of the problem.

    When you analyze the modus operandi of the US empire since the end of WW2 and especially since the end of the Cold War, it contains a huge amount of propaganda, information operations, etc.

    The US, being a peripheral power, realized they weren't going to dominate the world either through economic or military power, so they devised something different: dominating information flows.

    Eventually this poisons information flows to such a degree that no one trusts a word from anyone.

    So what to do?

    There's nothing to be done. Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback, and the US establishment has squandered all of it, both domestically and internationally.

    The only thing that's left to be done is to bite the bullet.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    I detect curious amounts of resentment towards men in the comments. :chin:

    Gee, I wonder why people don't vote for that.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Sounds about right.

    Though, what meaningful change could have been expected from an establishment candidate?

    The US establishment has grown so problematic that its interests run diametrically opposed to anything that could be seen as meaningful change.

    Let's hope this is the final nail on their coffin, but after four years of Orange Doofus I'm sure Frankenstein's monster will rise again.
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    it’s much more nuanced than that.Bob Ross

    Oh, of course. Your portrayal of countries like China and India as 'degenerate, inferior societies' sure puts you in pole position as an expert on nuance. :lol:
  • What should the EU do when Trump wins the next election?
    Know who loves Trump? The Vietnamese and Vietnamese Americans. Know why? They hate China, just like he does. That is, a nation that was devastated by the US has aligned itself with the US instead of China because it needs protection from China. Think that one through.Hanover

    Europe is not Vietnam, but on the topic of Vietnam - it became a 'partner country' to BRICS a few days ago.
  • What should the EU do when Trump wins the next election?
    4. This is exactly what Trump is trying to motivate. He's trying to save on defense costs by pushing it back on Europe.Hanover

    This is in Europe's interest, though. Relying on other countries for defense is nothing other than giving up one's sovereignty. This is exactly why I view Europe as little more than Uncle Sam's vassals.

    The solution is for the EU and its many nations is to figure out how to work closely with the US in order to function together harmoniously.Hanover

    The EU should decouple from the US, and instead seek engagement with continental powers like China. The US is fundamentally a meddling power that relies on dividing the Eurasian continent as the source of its influence.

    Conversely, it doesn't share in the cost of war on the Eurasian continent.

    Let me repeat that: the US thrives when the Eurasian continent is divided, but does not share in the cost of war.

    If you're in any way geopolitically conscious, you will keep the US very far from your door.
  • Withdrawal is the answer to most axiological problems concerning humans
    The reason we avoid something is usually because we fear its influence. For example, one avoids doing drugs because drugs may ruin one's life.

    In the case of life itself however it becomes a bit less clear what it is we're trying to avoid (or gain control over). Death perhaps?
  • Withdrawal is the answer to most axiological problems concerning humans
    Human social interaction, for all its surface appeal and fleeting “highs,” often pulls us into cycles of drama, pain, and struggle that leave lasting marks. Entangling ourselves in the lives and expectations of others can feel exhilarating initially, like a quick fix of validation or belonging, but it frequently devolves into complex webs of obligation, conflict, and disappointment. Much like a drug, social interaction can create a dependency- where we crave that next connection or approval, only to find it comes with an equal measure of stress, misunderstandings, and sometimes even betrayal. In the end, the temporary buzz fades, often leaving us more entangled and drained than before.schopenhauer1

    Genuinely, I think much of the negative influence we experience from social interactions are a product of the aforementioned whims of passion and desire.

    Asceticism and isolation can be a way to regain control over these influences.

    Fasting can be productive, but don't starve yourself. Even Buddha seemed to have felt this wasn't necessary. But what's stopping you from practicising asceticism?
  • Withdrawal is the answer to most axiological problems concerning humans
    Asceticism and isolation are tried and tested spiritual methods which we see all over the world and throughout the ages, so I think there is merit to them.

    Most (all?) spiritual beliefs that prescribe these practices seem to agree that they are not ends in themselves, but serve to balance the mind against the whims of our passions and desires.

    Once the ascetic believes they have attained a certain level of insight, they may feel they can return to normal (or perhaps monastic) life and be better able to act in accordance to just principles.

    In some ways I view the problems you describe similarly as for example addictive substances. One can avoid them like the plague, in fear of the damage they might do. Or one may, treading cautiously, confront the danger and rise above it. The latter approach bears a certain risk - this is true.
  • In Support of Western Supremacy, Nationalism, and Imperialism.
    For those who are upset at my rhetoric (and perhaps the lens by which I am analyzing this), I challenge you to try to justify, in your response to this OP, e.g., why Western, democratic values should not be forcibly imposed on obviously degenerate, inferior societies at least in principle—like Talibanian Afghanistan, North Korea, Iran, China, India, etc. Some societies are so obviously structured in a way antithetical to the human good, that it is virtually impossible to justify leaving them be in the name of anti-imperialism.Bob Ross

    The fact that you would name countries like Iran, China and India in this list betrays an ignorance that is hard to explain in mere words.

    Meanwhile, the US is aiding and abetting genocide in Palestine as we speak, and has a well-documented track record of genocide running throughout its history. (Native Americans, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, East-Timor, countless conflicts in the Middle-East with death tolls running in the millions, etc.)

    This thread reads like a bad joke - the last spasms of a morally bankrupt empire whose outdated propaganda apparently still holds some unfortunate souls in its grasp.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    A defeat for the US establishment is a win for the rest of the world.
  • Animalism: Are We Animals?
    What a load of Philo-babble. :lol:

    "Numerically identical to an animal" - this is the reason I can't take modern philosophy seriously. I scanned through the paper briefly, and maybe I missed it, but I couldn't even find the definition of 'animal' the writer uses to make his point.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Nonsense. If that had been the case, I'm sure the initial accounts would have mentioned it. None of them do.

    Instead, they mention a certain British clown traveling to Kiev, after which the negotiations are mysteriously aborted even though all signs were that an agreement was close.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    That “diplomatic solution” was giving into absurd Russian demands.Michael

    Nope. The Ukrainians put their signature under the draft, so unfortunately this narrative doesn't work.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    The point of contention was whether a diplomatic solution was possible with the Russians.

    Answer: yes, it was possible, and this is confirmed to us first-hand by a Ukrainian account no less.

    It is clear as day.

    If you want to believe my views, based on neutral, Western and Ukrainian sources are a product of propaganda, I think that says more about your own biases than mine.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    No, I'm talking about this:



    Bennett's comments were obviously highly controversial, which is probably why he was pressured to backtrack on them.

    However, Ukrainian diplomat Alexander Chaly who was part of the Ukrainian delegation in Istanbul gave a first-hand account that confirmed Bennett's initial statements.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    You can find first-hand accounts by a member of the Ukrainian delegation to the Istanbul negotiations online. They gave an interview and confirmed that it was the West who blocked the deal.

    This was already reported on earlier by Israeli mediator Naftali Bennett, but the Ukrainian diplomat confirmed it.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    The Russians sat down with the Ukrainians and produced a deal under which the Ukrainians put their signature.

    That's a fact you'll somehow have to deal with if you want to argue the Russians cannot be reasoned with.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    As if there would be a "diplomatic solution" for the artificial state that ought to be part of Russia (or at least parts that are Novorossiya) and is ruled by nazis.ssu

    In March/April 2022 there was a basis for peace, agreed upon and signed by the Ukrainian delegation. The West blocked it.

    In other words, the West is the pink elephant in the room that does not want peace. It's obvious once you simply look at their actions rather than their words.

    Oh and ermm.. Lol!
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Somehow you seem not to understand that it's an European objective to not let Russia defeat and conquer Ukraine (or take the parts it wants and put a "denazified" puppet regime in the carcass state that is left).ssu

    It's obvious that the US/NATO insistence on a military rather than a diplomatic solution is a guarantee for Ukraine's eventual collapse.

    So either US/NATO decisionmakers are utterly incompetent, or they are pursuing a completely different agenda that has nothing to do with the survival and well-being of Ukraine.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Trump is just a populist in the purest sense of the word. Populism is a reaction to a failed political establishment.

    We're seeing the exact same thing happen in my home country, however we aren't as melodramatic about it.
  • Climate change denial
    Warm showers? What decadence. You should have cold showers if you truly care about the climate. It's more healthy too.