If this continues to morph into a new Trump thread, I'm going to close it. — Baden

You are quite right. Unfortunately, given Musk's position it is difficult to keep Trump out of it.

As for the rest of your quote in regards to Musk you once again rely on that bastion of unbiased and objective reporting..."The Guardian"....enough said. You once again speak from your echo chamber. — philosch

As for 'the media bubble': The Guardian has what Americans call 'liberal bias'. So what? I can easily make the distinction between their editorial slant, and the facts they report. So too with the other 'liberal media' - NY Times, Washington Post, The Atlantic. They stand up for liberal values, no question, but they're also capable of balanced writing and reporting, and they do attempt to report the facts. — Wayfarer

Very well said. It is independent journalism. The Guardian reports the latest news from the UK, America, and around the world, from different perspectives. There's more to it than politics. Keeping to the topic:

Elon Musk hands out $1m checks to voters amid Wisconsin supreme court election race

Musk denied he was buying votes but said the court election outcome would be critical to Trump’s agenda and ‘the future of civilization’

Elon Musk gave out $1m checks on Sunday to two Wisconsin voters, declaring them spokespeople for his political group, ahead of a Wisconsin supreme court election that the tech billionaire cast as critical to Donald Trump’s agenda and “the future of civilization” [...]

Musk’s attorneys argued in filings with the court that Musk was exercising his free speech rights with the giveaways and any attempt to restrict that would violate both the Wisconsin and US constitutions.
The payments are “intended to generate a grassroots movement in opposition to activist judges, not to expressly advocate for or against any candidate,” Musk’s attorneys argued in court filings.

Musk’s political action committee used a nearly identical tactic before the presidential election last year, offering to pay $1m a day to voters in Wisconsin and six other battleground states who signed a petition supporting the First and Second amendments. — The Guardian

More about Musk's interests - unfortunately, it ties in with Trump.

Since taking office, Trump has withdrawn the US from what is considered the most important global climate pact, the Paris Climate Agreement. He has also reportedly prevented US scientists from participating in international climate research and removed national electric vehicle targets.

Plus, he derided his predecessor's attempts to develop new green technology a "green new scam".

Trump has been eager to make a deal with the Ukrainian president on critical minerals. He has also taken a strong interest in Greenland and Canada – both nations rich in critical minerals.

***

The Elon Musk effect?
Trump's right-hand man understands more than most the importance of critical minerals in the green transition. Space X and Tesla – the companies Elon Musk leads - rely heavily on critical minerals like graphite (in electric vehicles), lithium (in batteries) and nickel (in rockets) [...]

Such has been Musk's concern with getting hold of some of these minerals that three years ago he tweeted: "Price of lithium has gone to insane levels! Tesla might actually have to get into the mining & refining directly at scale, unless costs improve." — BBC News

Each person is responsible for his or her own behavior. — frank

A good topic for an essay.

Musk and his global influence. Increasing violent far-right hatred. As well as racism, hatred in these far-right groups is also directed at LGBTQ+ people and women.

from: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/979646 and a longer Guardian quote:

‘It is about vulnerable guys’: violent far-right groups in Sweden recruit boys as young as 10.
Validated by Trump, Musk and the manosphere, far-right extremists pull in boys online and use bodybuilding and fight clubs to further their white supremacist agenda.

Since the inauguration of Donald Trump in January, after which the US president’s top adviser and the world’s richest man, Elon Musk, gave two fascist-style salutes, there has been a rise in children using the Nazi salute in schools in Värmland [...]

Far-right extremism has long been present in Sweden, but – as in other parts of Europe and the US – the last few years have seen a dramatic shift in the dominant groups, their structure, activities and recruitment....

Increase in pace of radicalisation amongst young, white males. Notable changes re age and profile.

‘It is about vulnerable guys’: violent far-right groups in Sweden recruit boys as young as 10.
Validated by Trump, Musk and the manosphere, far-right extremists pull in boys online and use bodybuilding and fight clubs to further their white supremacist agenda.

Since the inauguration of Donald Trump in January, after which the US president’s top adviser and the world’s richest man, Elon Musk, gave two fascist-style salutes, there has been a rise in children using the Nazi salute in schools in Värmland [...]

Far-right extremism has long been present in Sweden, but – as in other parts of Europe and the US – the last few years have seen a dramatic shift in the dominant groups, their structure, activities and recruitment.

The number of active groups in the Swedish far right are at their highest level since 2008, according to a new report by Expo, a Swedish anti-racism institute. After several years in decline, last year saw an increase in the number of groups “attracting a new generation of young men who have lost faith in democracy”. Violence, it reports, plays an increasingly important role – “both rhetorically and in actual acts of violence” [...]

Stiernelöf, who works for Agera Värmland, a group that helps people to leave violent extremism, says one of the most notable changes is how the age of those being pulled in has plummeted. Some of the boys being recruited, he says, are now as young as 10.

The other notable change is the profile of the types of people who are attracted. “Ten to 15 years ago, it was about the strong, expressive guys who wanted to be seen,” he says. “Today, it is about young, vulnerable guys who often spend their time online and maybe miss social contact. That is a very big difference.” [...]

“It is white young men. They talk a lot about the ‘white genocide’, ‘white lives matter’. They see a threat to the white man’s power,” he says. Role models include figures from the manosphere such as Andrew Tate and Marcus Follin, a Swedish white-nationalist YouTuber known as “the golden one”, whose Instagram feed is full of bodybuilding pictures.

As well as racism, hatred in these far-right groups is also directed at LGBTQ+ people and women [...]

In its most recent annual report, Säpo, the Swedish security service, paints a worrying picture of how the overlap of active clubs and online radicalisation could result in increasing violence in the future.

It warned that terrorist groups are using digital platforms and gaming environment to reach younger target groups in order to radicalise and mobilise them at an accelerating pace.
— The Guardian - The violent far right

I'm still trying to figure out the where the line is between philosophy and psychology.
Ice cream sounds better than either. — Vera Mont

As you know, a clear distinction is found in academia.

However, the line is blurry and there is much overlap. I immediately think of Stoicism and CBT:
https://simplyputpsych.co.uk/global-psych/how-stoicism-aligns-with-cognitive-behavioural-therapy

But I guess your concern lies more in the content of whatever you are writing for this event.
How 'philosophical' is it? It depends on your view of philosophy. The focus of your interest.
Your chosen topic and the aspects that catch your imagination.

I was once accused of trying to 'psychologise' someone. I think I was questioning intentions or motivations for a belief, or text, and its implications for the self and others. Personality and behaviour.

I think I argued that these factors are as important as the concept, theory or claim being discussed.
If philosophy is about the human condition and how best to live our lives. To examine and understand underlying assumptions and prejudice. Then, it involves asking holistic questions about ourselves and interactions with people and the environment.

Philosophy writing, then.
I think it must start with a philosophical idea or concept to be explored, discussed or analysed.
And/or a particular philosopher's view and arguments. Compared to your own.
A concern re happiness or badness or busyness or an -ism/ist.
What inspires you to write?

What gets and keeps you going? Ice-cream?
So many questions, theories and experiences to be considered, huh.
So many ways to describe and share. But sometimes it all comes down to taste. Aesthetics.

Ice cream sounds better than either. — Vera Mont

You can have it all! :cool:

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - said Socrates, licking an ice-cream cone...

I'm up for burying you in a mountain of aphorisms if you so desire. — Baden

:smile: Yeah, baby! Covered in ice-cream and a splashing of strawberry sauce.
"Bon appetit." :yum: :party:

I have the essay's title and am aiming at 2,000 words. For the rest of this month probably tabulating what should be included in a good philosophy essay and will start researching next month. — RussellA

OK. It seems you have it all under control. Best wishes! :sparkle: :flower:

At the moment an actual essay is taking second place to trying to understand what a "Philosophy Essay" actually is. — RussellA

Really? Oh dear. From all your posts, it seems you have a good enough understanding.
It is not necessary, or even desired, to write the perfect, academic essay! Unless that is what your aim is.
From the guidelines:

4) Must fall under the broad category of a philosophical essay. The Essay's Title and Topic are chosen by the author. The philosophical viewpoint can be academic or less formal. It should be systematic with an Introduction, Main Body and Conclusion. This is non-fiction. Poetic expression is allowed if it completes or supports the philosophical exploration. — Moliere

Every so often I make a post including my understanding of what a "Philosophy Essay" is in the expectation of being shot down. — RussellA

You won't be shot down. Because this is an open, free and easy environment. Practically, anything goes!
Given your 'fixation', that could easily be the topic of your essay.

Write about whatever you are interested in. What questions excite or intrigue you enough to share?
Which philosopher do you agree/disagree with and why? What attracts/repels you?

At this point, I have started reading and researching my chosen topic.
This takes time. To reflect and take notes.
I have a basic, rough outline in my head of what I want to include. I don't intend for my essay to be long!
But who knows...things change...

And I am allowing myself to be distracted. Again! :roll:

Until today, I had no idea that 'flash philosophy' was a thing.
I found this: 'Cutting-edge philosophy in bite-sized pieces':

https://flashphilosophy.com/
Essays range from a 1min to a 5min read: — Amity

@Jamal -
Your flash fiction is excellent. Do you think you could be a flash philosopher?

I hope other TPF short story writers will take part...chilling out and being imaginative.
Using different styles of engagement.

Must all philosophy essays be about the metaphysical search for the fundamental nature of reality? Discuss. — RussellA

Hey there. You keep coming up with ideas for an essay. How are you getting on with yours?

I'm thinking particularly of the aphorisms of Nietzsche and Cioran here. I like that approach, but it doesn't quite fit with the idea of a philosophical essay. — Baden

Hmm. Yes. Aphorisms are clearly too short to be an essay but they still contain philosophical meaning and can be expanded on. What are the concerning issues? Why are they written at a particular time. How do we make sense of them without talking to the author? Is it all down to individual interpretation?

Why do you like the approach? That way of writing, reading, reflection?
Perhaps, that might be an interesting project. To write an essay full of aphorisms and explain? Or not.

I don't know anything about Cioran. So, turned first to TPF Search box, then Wiki:

Two threads, started by @schopenhauer1
1. 6yrs ago: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/6104/e-m-cioran-aphorism-analysis/p1
2. 2yrs ago: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14398/whats-the-implications-of-this-e-m-cioran-quote/p1

***

Aphorisms make up a large portion of Cioran's bibliography, and some of his books, such as The Trouble with Being Born, are composed entirely of aphorisms. Speaking about this decision, Cioran said:

I only write this kind of stuff, because explaining bores me terribly. That's why I say when I've written aphorisms it's that I've sunk back into fatigue, why bother. And so, the aphorism is scorned by "serious" people, the professors look down upon it. When they read a book of aphorisms, they say, "Oh, look what this fellow said ten pages back, now he's saying the contrary. He's not serious."

Me, I can put two aphorisms that are contradictory right next to each other. Aphorisms are also momentary truths. They're not decrees. And I could tell you in nearly every case why I wrote this or that phrase, and when. It's always set in motion by an encounter, an incident, a fit of temper, but they all have a cause. It's not at all gratuitous. — Wiki - Cioran

There are contradictions, sometimes depending on mood or emotion. Physical, mental or psychological state. Context and circumstance. Some readers might fix/ate on one that appeals to their own philosophy of life, or way of thinking. They might see only what they want to see. Or those that fit with their experience. And make arguments accordingly. Cue never-ending speculations.

TPF threads are a good starting point but they can fizzle out in frustration.
I think the June event might provide a way to enlighten in a substantial way, in careful dialogue.
Are you up for it @Baden? @schopenhauer1? Go on. We need creative stimulation :cool: :wink:

Dr Matt Williams of Jesus College Oxford made the point that he felt he always achieved high marks because he sometimes started with an outlandish claim which he argued well. — RussellA

Thank you!
Excellent video (19mins) showing the importance of structure, as in making a case to convince a 'jury'.
Important if you are a lawyer representing a client and arguing for the 'Not Guilty verdict. Or v.v.

As you say:

When writing a philosophy essay, it is perhaps not essential to believe in your claim, only to logically argue for your claim. — RussellA

At 16:05, he highlights the point that 'it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what you can prove'. So, even if you think the client is guilty, you must do your job effectively and successfully.
By making and taking a clear and logical path to the conclusion.

***

Later, it is not an 'outlandish claim' he makes, rather he presents a negative view to the claim that 'Democracy causes growth'. At 16:34, there is a differently structured argument for:
'Democracy cannot cause growth'.

Everything in this presentation is clear, concise and well explained.

***

I agree that it can be a good exercise to play devil's advocate. Arguing against a popular idea can provoke and test the opposing arguments. It can help clarify your position.

But you still haven't persuaded me to write an essay arguing that 'All you need is Love', sorry!
Why? Just because! :joke: I've been going down a 'rabbit-hole' of my own making.

Talking of which, didn't you just love his 'bunny ears' - to highlight the important words to focus on in any debate. Also, his replies to BTL questions:

I agree that several words in the questions are ambiguous. But the ones that I highlighted were the focus of each debate.

In the analogy I gave to a court trial, the words guilty/not guilty would focus debate there. Similarly, the words highlighted by bunny ears were the main focus of what everyone is and should be arguing about when responding to that question. It is absolutely fine to pick on other ambiguous terms in the question, provided that you are focused on the core debate.

[ About 'bunny ears. Don't they tend to be 'single' in English essays, rather than the American "doubles''?]

Thanks for the link. I had never come across the concept before. — RussellA

My pleasure. Enjoying the conversation but I must get on with reading...

I personally don't agree that all you need is love, so I would be interested in being persuaded otherwise. — RussellA

I think it is a silly claim and not one I will be making!
However, this surprisingly lengthy piece about the Beatles song is fascinating:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Need_Is_Love

***

Until today, I had no idea that 'flash philosophy' was a thing.
I found this: 'Cutting-edge philosophy in bite-sized pieces':

https://flashphilosophy.com/
Essays range from a 1min to a 5min read:

1. Harman’s False Dichotomy
2. Nagel’s Question-Begging Argument on the Badness of Death
3. Identity Pleas and Excuses
4. Anticipating Gettier
5. The Paradox of Personal Identity
6. Getting Gettier Wrong

7. Sight and light -

(This post was excerpted, with Audi’s permission, from his Epistemology: A Contemporary Introduction to the Theory of Knowledge. It’s an excellent example of how it is possible to make an interesting and even important philosophical point in very few words.) — Flash philosophy

8. More “Constancies” in Visual Perception
9. Determinacy and the Self

Why not do a Boris Johnson and write 500 words defending one's claim that "I argue that mathematics is not universal" and then another 500 words defending one's claim that "I argue that mathematics is universal". — RussellA

I like the idea of an essay in two halves. or even 4 quarters and a bit.
Is it true that 'All you need is love'?

First half - the academic structure style and content.
Second half - the less formal.

Which is the most persuasive, interesting and why? Hmm...

And 500 words is a small ask. — Moliere

Are you sure about that? :chin:

I'm reminded of the 'flash fiction' or micro fiction of the short story competition.
A few from Dec 2022:
Sundae, Bloody Sundae by @Baden
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13727/sundae-bloody-sundae-by-baden/p1
In the Wake of the Moriscos by @Jamal
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13718/in-the-wake-of-the-moriscos-by-jamal/p1

I think can be harder to be concise. As well as knowing what you want to write, it requires skill and discipline to keep things simple, creative and enjoyable.

In philosophy writing, I think it is difficult to make substantial points in 500 words.
That means that you need to strip ideas down to the basics. I would say the meat of the matter but isn't it more the bones?

It is a great exercise in reading a philosopher's text. To reach the salient points. To find the Premises and Conclusions. To know and understand the Views and Arguments. But then to focus on a single issue and cover that well, giving it full attention. No need to say everything.

That is one way - the more academic. Basically coming to a conclusion as to whether you agree/disagree and explaining why.

Less formally, it might be a simple letter, an exchange, letting someone know what your philosophy is.
Perhaps a dialogue with a friend. Perhaps more practical. Or mythical. A wisdom piece. A puzzle.
You can state your position and justification about...anything!

I found this:
https://lessfoolish.substack.com/p/500-word-philosophy
and a linked essay example:
Life Philosophy

Be that Philosophy Phlasher. Hell, yeah! :fire: :cool: :monkey:

the Seán Radcliffe essay that won him the 2023 Irish Young Philosopher Awards Grand Prize and Philosopher of Our Time Award was only about 1,500 words. — RussellA

Yes. To read again, for inspiration:
Plato’s Cave & Social Media
Seán Radcliffe asks, has Plato’s Allegory of the Cave been warning us of social media for 2,400 years?
https://philosophynow.org/issues/165/Platos_Cave_and_Social_Media

it may be hard to defend the view that ' All you need is Love' in 2000 words. — Jack Cummins

You have a max of 5,000 words. Stop looking for excuses!
Write as if you were starting a thread, think of a head-bangin' OP, expand and chill out :pray: :flower:
Remember, this is not a competition. There will be a wide spectrum of writers doing their own thing. Within the guidelines. Think and feel your way through...it's all a story...pick another song.

my thinking is that it ought be a celebration of the philosophical creative mind, and not necessarily the "greatest" paper ever or whatever that might mean. I promise to give constructive feedback to any entrant, as in I'll try to improve the essay from the perspective of the writer writing it, as the "hook".

But I say that because I look forward to reading lots of brave and original philosophy essays from our people. — Moliere

Yes. A celebration of creative minds and a mix of ideas. To write or read something that might slant you from your usual viewpoint. A topic not 'original' (how can it be?) but a new way of looking for you and others. Listening, even if it sounds discordant. Creating form and content, academic or different, using the imagination...

Even the ordinary can be 'brave', if it's a first attempt or one to make the mundane magical.
And challenging to keep it within the realms of philosophy. Depending on what you think that involves. There's a topic in itself!

Improving an 'essay from the perspective of the writer' - as the 'hook'?
I'm not sure what that means?
Do you mean to lead the discussion of the essay, to set it off in a positive direction, one of substance.
Rather than the trigger-happy knee-jerk reactions that can occur in threads?

As having difficulty choosing a topic, I do wonder if having a theme (or several) would have made the activity seem less daunting. At one point, I remember that I'magination' was suggested but I think it was dismissed. Anyone could choose to use it as a prompt although — Jack Cummins

Of course, you can use your imagination to discuss or explore 'Imagination' or 'Creativity' any way you want. You are interested in Art and Music and all kinds of psychology/philosophy. Perhaps look for any links and follow a quote or lyric from a song. 'All you need is love' - Discuss. :wink:

it may be seen as animaginive to do so.
Do you think that some prompt topics or questions would help? When I go to a creative writing group some prompts are given and everyone finds it helpful in getting started. I am not suggesting that the use of the prompts should be obligatory, but just wonder if it would help rather than being in front of a blank page, with the whole field of philosophy for choice. — Jack Cummins

It is so hard because so many philosophy issues are or have been tackled in threads. — Jack Cummins

You can use previous discussions as a springboard. Similar issues from a different perspective.
TPF posters who have a passion for particular topic/s can use their past, present thoughts and writings - but not to simply copy and paste, otherwise what's the point.

The creative spirit of the event is foremost. You are in a new moment and can take anything in a new direction. It's supposed to be enjoyed.
You have plenty of spark :cool:

with an essay it seems that there is a need to come up with an independent view. I had one idea but have since decided it is a bit sensitive to tackle on a public forum. If I do write it I would have to write it with care, which would be more important than using artificial intelligence to edit it. — Jack Cummins

To start with all you need is your view! Then look at what others have said. Reflect on similarities or differences and come to a conclusion.

Just a few thoughts. I'm sure others have more. Brainstorm stuff that is currently on your mind and how it makes you and others feel...

You can do this! :100: :sparkle:

I have gone from one probable topic to four possibles. I've done a little bit of research on all of them. ATM, I'm leaning toward the last. *sigh* More reading. — Vera Mont

Hey, yes! I've found it is easy to swerve from one topic to another in the middle of doing the research. Research is, of course, never wasted - it just means you begin to know more about a topic and realise there's more to it than you thought! You either dig in and keep to your original 'passion' or move on.
It's good to have more background and knowledge under your belt, all the better to respond to readers.

But the very idea is a great motivator to learn, and I'm sure there will be a heap more learning when the essays are in. — Vera Mont

Absolutely! As readers, we can focus on the ideas, appreciate the effort and ask questions if we don't understand what is being presented.

Be happy. Take care! :hearts: :sparkle:

:cool: :smile:
'All I've got to do' reminded me of George Harrison's Blow Away.

Day turned black, sky ripped apart
Rained for a year till it dampened my heart
Cracks and leaks, the floorboards caught rot
About to go down, I had almost forgot

Chorus
All I got to do is to, to love you
All I got to be is, be happy
All it's got to take is some warmth to make it
Blow away, blow away, blow away

Verses
Sky cleared up, day turned to bright
Closing both eyes now the head filled with light
Hard to remember what a state I was in
Instant amnesia, Yang to the Yin...

Wind blew in, cloud was dispersed
Rainbows appearing, the pressures were burst
Breezes a-singing, now feeling good
The moment had passed like I knew that it should...

All it's got to take is some warmth to make it
Blow away, blow away, blow away,

Reading Harrison's book I, Me, Mine, p378:

In 1977, during a break from the music scene, he was inspired to write a song that his Formula One gang could enjoy. He was sitting in his hut looking out at the pouring rain. Getting away from the problems of leaks in the house.

...The problems start when you get attached to the problems! That's when the mind gets involved in too much thinking of whether one is supposed to go here, or do this or that; you know -- the bullshit.
I was feeling a bit rotten, a bit ratty; not feeling good in myself, and it was all getting next to me. It is remembering again that that isn't me. Remember what the masters say 'I am basically a potentially divine, wonderful human being' and all this rattiness...is me attaching myself to the mind. The biggest thing that screws us up in life is the mind, it plays tricks on us and can trip you over.
I thought 'I don't have to feel all this! I do love everybody', and that is really all you've got to do, manifest your love. The only thing we have to work at in this life is how to manifest love.

All I got to do is to, to love you
All I got to be is, be happy

And that was Blow Away, as simple as that.

The tune came into his head, the chords found and then later, he wrote the verse. A momentary lack of confidence, a feeling of embarrassment when he thought the tune too obvious...and didn't want to play it to anybody. But liked it more once it was recorded. Now, back in the game. Depression lifted. His cosmic view recalled.

And it’s important to remember that while everything else around you changes, the soul within remains the same; you have to constantly remember that and fight for the right to be happy.” — George Harrison

Good to see you back! :smile:
Thanks for your support and encouragement. You've been missed. Terribly.

June 1st is just around the corner...

Wishing everyone all the best in this new TPF venture. Something positive to look forward to. :pray: :flower:

Be as forceful as required, and not less so. Hammer the message home, again and again, about the very real damage Donald Trump et al are doing to the body politic and institutions of government. — BC

I would add: Listen to what people are saying about their concerns and problems. Then, act to show you care and will support them, in real terms.
Grass roots intervention.

And he's [Musk] careening around Washington like an unguided missile. People should be on the streets over it. — Wayfarer

I think there are protests but we are not seeing them. It's not just Washington he is affecting adversely, there is gross interference in European politics. By him and Vance stirring the hard-right pot.

And as ssu points out:

When Trump comes to the European Union and gets us to a trade war, I think the outcome can be that the US really leaves NATO. Because nobody will say to Trump that it is a bad thing I fear. Someone like JD Vance and Musk are too far with the idea that "one has to shake up old liberal Europe". — ssu

It's more than just a 'shake-up', more of a break-up but I'm going to leave it here. Will still follow...

Thank you @Christoffer and @BC for the Q&A about opposition activism and messaging.

I hope you don't mind but it is relevant to my thread and have C&P'd part of it there.

'This Moment is Medieval'...
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/974040

Cheers! :sparkle:

Also, thanks to @Wayfarer for starting this necessary and valuable discussion.
I've been reading along and admiring the in-depth commentary.
It has stimulated some excellent exchanges from a variety of perspectives. :fire:

Hey. I think that it is clear where Amadeus is coming from.

Nobody is pretending anything. This is a crisis. If you don't recognise that, then so be it.
— Amity

No, it isn't. Most people in those threads you mention are absolutely out of their minds on panic and sniffing their own arses. If you cannot see that, so be it. But given I spend time outside of lil political bubbles, and subscribe to no common ideologies, It is clear as day. — AmadeusD

For him, there is no crisis. End of.
Well, not quite.
The description of 'most people' exaggerates and denigrates those expressing their views about the current, unfolding situation. Threads which include people with valid concerns, backed up by their own experience, knowledge and research. I note that this has stimulated some excellent exchanges from a variety of perspectives.

The thread I mentioned earlier (The Musk Plutocracy - @Wayfarer ) - with a recent post answering the question of activism and messaging:

Then why don't the US citizens who don't want this... do something about it?
— Christoffer

An entirely appropriate question.

Massive mobilization (spontaneous / organized) takes time, focus, and energy. Trump began his current maladministration only on 1/20/25--so about 45 days ago. His fast and furious demolition activities affect opponents the same way zebra stripes confuse lions: It's hard to lock on a target. It takes 10 times as much energy to resist the government as the government spends fucking us over [...]
The opposition must "get into every space" -- be it bars, union halls, churches, schools, neighborhood organizations, civic clubs, board rooms, congressional offices, the sidewalks surrounding the White House, the pentagon -- EVERYWHERE. Be polite as necessary, but not more so. Be as forceful as required, and not less so. Hammer the message home, again and again, about the very real damage Donald Trump et al are doing to the body politic and institutions of government... — BC

As before, I would add: Listen to what people are saying about their concerns and problems. Then, act to show you care and will support them, in real terms.
Grass roots intervention.

***

There is a lot to be learned from people who invest their time and energy analysing 'what is going on'. Who care to question, respond and explain.

I am far from being a political heavyweight. Indeed, I have acknowledged my ignorance and limitations previously.

I kept clear of the news for some time, ever since the US election.
However, what is happening now can't be ignored or denied.
My recent threads have been exploratory, as far as I am able, with help and contributions from others.

I expect that most, like me, have other personal matters and interests which take up their time and energy. Nevertheless, it is valuable to talk and listen to shared concerns. We don't always have the place or space.

Thanks and best wishes to all. Take care :sparkle: :flower:

There is hope, but its heart beats faintly now. — Vera Mont

Keep feeding the little winged creatures on your window sill. Stay strong, dear friend. :pray: :flower:

PS

Also, how likely is it that, not only men, but people generally are willing to stand up against the powerful?

Unlikely. — fdrake

I forgot to ask: Why do you think it unlikely? There are many reasons.
No matter...

Also, how likely is it that, not only men, but people generally are willing to stand up against the powerful?
— Amity

Unlikely.

How many of us are frustrated in our lack of power, our vulnerability to imposed, dramatic change?

Almost everyone I speak with. — fdrake

I didn't respond to this part of your post. Perhaps because I agreed.
Friends I speak with share feelings of frustration and powerlessness. And shrug. What can be done?
In this county, we seldom need to stand up against the powerful.

But it can be done to great effect, even if it takes its toll.
What comes to mind is the Poll Tax Protest.
Against Thatcher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots

That seems like a lifetime ago. And now such a thing is unlikely to happen. Given the criminalisation of protest. I've had a quick look and found this downloadable article, as yet unread but seems pertinent:

The Effects of Criminalisation on Activists: The Case of the NoTAP Environmental Movement

Does criminalisation have “chilling effects” on activists? If so, which are the criminalisation phases or strategies that discourage activists to act freely and in exercise of their human rights?

This article investigates the chilling effects of criminalisation beyond the phases or strategies of police repression, labelling/stigmatisation, and surveillance, which have been addressed in the relevant multi-disciplinary literature thus far.

Using the case study of the criminalised NoTAP environmental movement opposing a pipeline megaproject in the Italian southeastern Puglia region, this article shows the importance of investigating chilling effects on activists who have had experiences with the criminal justice system and with punitive measures outside the criminal law, such as administrative fines.

It ends with an invitation for activist criminologists to contribute more substantially to this area of research, and to support activists throughout the “criminalisation cycle” - and through the most daunting phases of criminalisation, in particular. — Springer - The Effects of Criminalisation on Activists

It seems easy to become a criminal in USA and to be imprisoned for decades. For small offences.
The exceptions, of course, are those in power. Big offences overlooked. Even rewarded as in Trump.

“A lot of the negative consequences of getting a felony [conviction] really aren’t going to apply to Trump because of his wealth and status,” Petrigh says.

Normally, a felony conviction is a big deal, he says. It can prevent individuals from receiving government assistance like public housing and can impact job and loan applications. But, “none of those things are going to affect Donald Trump, because his wealth isolates him from those consequences,” Petrigh says. Even Trump’s right to vote will likely not be impacted, he notes: Florida, where Trump is a resident, prevents felons from voting. — Boston University - Trump Convicted Felon - Does that mean anything?

And now, of course, he an outlaw is above the law. Laws he makes for himself and his oligarch thugs.

Private prisons are big business. Booming in America. So, motivation to increase cages. And build more.
It is understandable that people are wary of protesting. Even holding an opposing point of view is dangerous. Even looking the wrong way at someone; having the wrong look or colour can land you in trouble. Big time. For the ethnic minorities. For being homeless through no fault of your own.

And when protests do happen, we are not always told of them. Or shown the pictures...
A photograph of a moment in time can be a powerful message.
Let's make an album! Black and white. Or colour...static or moving. Singing...
Where are the creatives? To move away from the medieval. To progress.
A 'coalition of the willing'...not just for the politicians.

THe entire post is just you going over how you feel. There aren't any facts or statistics that can be quibbled with - which is why I gave a similar response. — AmadeusD

No. It is not only about feelings but a welcome personal insight. No facts or statistics necessary.

To backtrack, Vera was responding to my question:

it's the long term I don't believe in.
— Vera Mont

What do you mean by that? And what does it mean for the way you feel and live your life now? — Amity

Seems to me, it is only perspective that can lead to these sorts of rants (not derogatory - anything adequately complete will be a rant in this context). If this were based on 'facts' then your personal feelings wouldn't be relevant. When i speak of perspective here, it's an impetus that says "No, it is not likely that your view of your own era is accurate, historically. Nor could it be" — AmadeusD

Personal feelings are relevant when giving a perspective on the effects of critical moments. There is a meeting of subjective experience and objective observations.
It is as accurate as memory allows and history shows. It relates to the present and future.

It is derogatory to suggest this is a 'rant'. Not to mention condescending in tone.

I think we've been here before, Vera. — AmadeusD

So what, if this has been discussed before. It is new to this thread and new readers.
It bears repeating.

And so having a bit of perspective may well change your feelings regardless of "the facts and statistics" which are not here, anyway. You claim both to live as a optimistic youth, but carry an abysmal view of the world in whcih you live, which has only "gone downhill" for fifty years. *shrug* i guess. — AmadeusD

Vera's response and current perspective is understandable. The feelings are understandable. The thoughts and writing are understandable. There is an honest sharing and wisdom to be tapped. It requires careful listening and questioning. It is of value. I share much of her concern.
Which is why I'm here.

This strikes me as the exact out-of-perspective thinking that everyone of every age who wants to feel good about themselves would put forward. We are not at any special stage of history, other than the forefront. Our time will be relegated like any other, and a future time will be more important at that time. It strikes me as nonsensical, and panicked. Hence, step back, take a breath - this is not a crisis. It's a point in history. LIke any other. Pretending we're in special circumstances is a really weird move, other than to ensure you don't give up - whcih seems weak to me. — AmadeusD

I don't understand how you reach your conclusions as bolded. It doesn't make sense to me.
This is a point in history but not like any other.
There has been a significant change in circumstances. As discussed here and elsewhere.
One example: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15754/the-musk-plutocracy/p1

Nobody is pretending anything. This is a crisis. If you don't recognise that, then so be it.

Probably worth stepping back a bit, taking a breath and realizing we're not in a fucking crisis either. Women have never been more powerful, revered or protected in the West. And we're doing better than anywhere else by far. — AmadeusD

Well, like most, we see what we want to see. Not what we need to see. Or know what and where to look for an informed and broader view. That takes will, time and energy we don't all have.
It could be worthwhile to start a discussion on misogyny, to explore its meaning, statistics and evidence. Locally, internationally and globally. But that is more than I am prepared to do, right now.

Misogyny is only part of Trump's regressive destruction of rights and justice systems.
Happening right now.
Full throttle.
Without a breath.
It is not a time to step back. But yes, to take a deep breath and step up. In whatever way we can.

Earlier I posted a YouTube version of Joan Baez singing 'We Shall Overcome'.
It is a powerful song but the setting here was vanilla. A young white audience barely mouthing the words.

As part of the Civil Rights Movement it is only one among many protest songs.
I've been looking for a better version. Or any empowering song. @180 Proof - any ideas?

So far, I've got this:
Joan Baez performs "We Shall Overcome" at the March on Washington



The first steps are the hardest...
The Civil Rights Movement Timeline, 1905-1975

https://www.blackpast.org/civil-rights-movement-timeline/

***
What's Going On - Marvin Gaye

Things end. Stars implode; species go extinct, civilizations collapse; biological entities die. Like every story, the history of the human race has a natural ending. I know that my personal death is not far off and believe that one or more of those other endings is also inevitable - I'm hoping it's collapse of this civilization, rather than extinction, because that allows me to imagine a new, more positive human story. — Vera Mont

Yes, things end but things also start. While the human race may well die at some point, we must live in the present. It all seems negative right now because of the dramatic changes starting with the election of Trump and gang in America. The knock-on effects not only in USA but world-wide.

***

The way I live is pretty much the same as it was in optimistic youth: a compromise with modernity and capitalism; trying to keep my footprint small without giving up ordinary comforts; trying to effect change, without giving up my tenuous security. These days, I don't go on futile marches or campaign for losers; I just write books nobody reads. — Vera Mont

It is clear that you care for people, animals, the environment and the effects of power. And more.
While marches may seem futile, they and campaigns are not about losing. They are about fighting for justice and a way to come together - to show we are not alone.

Just as reading or writing a book can help us imagine other places and people. To connect.
I know you write fiction. I've enjoyed reading your short stories in TPF Literary Activity.
I know you write in areas of philosophy, in an engaging manner, with real world experience.
I know you write novels - I haven't read any, as yet.
I'm not sure how autobiographical or biographical they are.

Writing a novel is an accomplishment in itself. I doubt I will ever do that. However, I write here.
It helps to clarify my thoughts by releasing them...hither and thither.
It exercises my brain and sometimes it even produces something of value.
Writing is not always going to be read.
There will be a Philosophy Writing Challenge, starting June 1st:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15749/philosophy-writing-challenge-june-2025-announcement/p1

I hope to contribute something. Already, I'm being challenged. Reining in a multitude of ideas.
So, this thread is a bit of a distraction from the direction I was taking. But necessary.

***

Thing is, I lived through a full cycle of history: from the wreckage left behind that great global insanity we fondly recall as WWII, through the decades of technological and social progress experienced by fortunate first-worlders, the elation of winning battles in civil rights, reproductive rights, gay rights, workers' rights... only to see it all clawed back, torn down and trampled again. Just as it had been a hundred times before in other civilizations. Meanwhile, we were gobbling up the bounty of this planet, not to improve the lot of all mankind but to enrich a few, and turning it into, not useful manure but toxic waste and debt-bondage. — Vera Mont

This powerful paragraph is a wonderful telling of your story, in the context of a changing world. Subjective and objective, as a participant and observer. A package of decades, passing.

***

I saw the dark tunnel opening one spring day in 1976, four years after the first summit in Stockholm on preventing climate change - a very hopeful thing that had been! I was having lunch with colleagues and one of them ordered imported bottled water . Four more years later, not only had none of the promises been kept, but resource extraction, automobile use, industrialization, deforestation and pollution had accelerated sharply. Then the three nations of most concern to me elected the Reagan-Thatcher-Mulroney axis to govern our affairs. It's been downhill since, with very few moguls to slow the descent. — Vera Mont

This thing about bottled water. I've been thinking about water as a resource more vital than any mineral.
I use water from the tap. In Scotland, so far, it is safe, refreshing and free.
Recently, I read of the increase in - of all things, constipation in England's children.
I can't help thinking that this is related not only to poor dietary choice, lack of exercise but insufficient fluid intake. In England and Wales, people have to pay for water at point of use. Water is metered.

You talk of the terrible Thatcher. One instance of her policies - Water and Sewage Privatisation.

The Conservative government of the day had originally proposed water privatisation in 1984 and again in 1986, but strong public feeling against the proposals led to plans being shelved to prevent the issue influencing the 1987 general election. Having won the election, the privatisation plan was "resurrected and implemented rapidly".

England and Wales became the only countries in the world to have a fully privatised water and sewage disposal system. In Scotland and Northern Ireland, water and sewerage services remained in public ownership. Since 2001, Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water... has operated as a single-purpose, not-for-profit company with no shareholders, "run solely for the benefit of customers". According to The Independent, the English WSCs are now mostly owned "by private equity firms with controversial tax-avoidance strategies". Public opinion polling carried out in 2017 indicated that 83% of the British public favoured renationalisation of all water services. — Wiki - Water Privatisation

I'm not sure of the current situation but, here's only a smidgeon of the sewage spills:

Across England, last year was the worst for sewage spills since records began. Sewage was discharged for a record 3.6million hours across England in 2023 – more than double the previous year. South West Water ranked second highest among all water companies for sewage spills, with an average of 43.4 sewage spills per storm overflow, trailing only behind United Utilities with 45.4 spills. — Plymouth Herald

Of course, this is nothing compared to other countries who have little to no access to clean water.
Millions don't have the basics and rely on charity and aid. Aid for toilets and good hygiene to prevent diseases.

This kind of humanitarian aid is being shut down by Trump. More here:

Trump posted on his Truth Social page on Friday that USAID's spending "IS TOTALLY UNEXPLAINABLE... CLOSE IT DOWN!"

Elon Musk, the tech billionaire working on the White House's effort to shrink the federal government, has previously claimed that the aid agency is "a criminal organization" and that Trump has agreed to "shut it down".

Neither Trump or Musk provided clear evidence to support their claims, and the president's effort to shutter the agency is expected to face legal challenges. — BBC - USAID - Why Trump wants to end it

***

It looks to me like each period of madness in history ends in greater destruction. Is this one big enough to be the last? We can hope not, but I left my faith in humanity in the 20th century. — Vera Mont

It is a pity that you have lost faith in humanity. But understandable. You are perceptive. Noting with keen eyes: the dark tunnel opening one spring day in 1976,.

This thread was/is an attempt to see, or even shed, some light. To counteract the darkness.
To lift the lid, to examine and understand the problems being faced right now. How to proceed.

I started with only one article as an example of activism. There are more situations to be discussed.
Haven't yet touched on the racism of the white supremacist, fascism of Trump and his thugs.
At this moment, using their power to overturn decades of slow and uncertain progress.

The question is how best to push back.
I'd be interested to hear the effects of this on others, perhaps activists like @180 Proof?
What's going on?

So it's not that world has changed per se, it was allways clear to the outside world that what we were doing was not what we said we were doing... it just wasn't clear to us. — ChatteringMonkey

The world is indeed changing, dramatically. I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
Who is this 'outside world', who is 'we'?

It looks like he's making an alliance with Putin from our point of view because he's moved so much towards Russia's position, has similar authoritarian values etc etc... but I don't think that's actually what's going on. — ChatteringMonkey

It doesn't just look like there is a pact with Putin, it is obvious from Putin's positive reactions that there is a deal going on...

I think he really wants to make a peace deal,... — ChatteringMonkey

For what purpose?

Overall, the actions taken are not those of a peace-maker. A deal-maker and breaker, perhaps. But only for the benefit of himself, the oligarchs and authoritarians, not for the people. He couldn't care less.

Where does all this idle speculation get us?
Who are we trying to convince and why?
Even in our 'understandings' of a situation, we never know all the facts.
And perhaps, this is a good time for me to leave the conversation, again.

Thanks to all who contribute to an increased, improved understanding. As far as it is possible.

Don't listen to what he says, but look at what he does. — ChatteringMonkey

It is possible to do both and more. Look at the effects at all levels.
It is not a case of 'either/or' as your previous suggestion:

And really you can look at it in two ways, 1) a bunch of illiberal autocrats carving up the world that must be opposed at all cost, or 2) the beginnings of a more stable organisation of the region without the US.
— ChatteringMonkey

How about a synthesis: an unstable World were bunch of illiberal autocrats try carving up the World and others desperately trying to hold on to a rules based order. — ssu

***
@jorndoe is correct. Trump only cares about peace on his and Putin's terms. This is his power play. To be the ruling King. To break up Ukraine, Europe, human rights across the globe...and more.

It is about the turn to autocracy and tyranny. The power shift from democracy to dictatorship.

Usually his words aren't meant to convey literal meaning, but rather to ellicit some effect. — ChatteringMonkey

The words are divisive rhetoric. The words are those of a narcissistic bully who cares for nobody but himself. I don't want this thread to be all about him. Unfortunately, he is the main player, but I'd like to broaden it out to look at other aspects and perspectives. An overview of global rights:

The UN human rights chief has warned of a “fundamental shift” in the US and sounded the alarm over the growing power of “unelected tech oligarchs”, in a stinging rebuke of Washington weeks into Donald Trump’s presidency.

Volker Türk said there had been bipartisan support for human rights in the US for decades but said he was “now deeply worried by the fundamental shift in direction that is taking place domestically and internationally”.

Without referring to Trump by name, Türk, an Austrian lawyer who heads the UN’s rights body, criticised the Republican president’s measures to overturn longstanding equity and anti-discrimination policies, as well as repeated threats against the media and politicians.

“In a paradoxical mirror image, policies intended to protect people from discrimination are now labelled as discriminatory. Progress is being rolled back on gender equality,” Türk said in comments to the UN human rights council in Geneva.

“Disinformation, intimidation and threats, notably against journalists and public officials, risk undermining the work of independent media and the functioning of institutions,” he added. “Divisive rhetoric is being used to distort, deceive and polarise. This is generating fear and anxiety among many.”

Since returning to power, Trump has continued to attack the press. Last month, he barred the Associated Press news agency – on which local and international media have traditionally relied for US government reporting – from the White House.

His administration has launched a purge of anti-discrimination policies under the umbrella term of diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI), and moved to slash rights for transgender people. At the same time, the administration has sent panic through communities with its widespread and muddled immigration crackdown.

Internationally, the US has moved to withdraw funding for international organisations that promote health and human rights, such as the World Health Organization, and imposed economic sanctions on the international criminal court, which is investigating war crimes in Gaza.

Washington’s traditional allies, including Canada, France and Germany, are feeling increasingly alarmed as Trump lashes out at democratic leaders while expressing a fondness for autocrats, including the Russian president, Vladimir Putin.

In his speech on Monday, Türk presented a concerned overview of the global rights situation, saying the world was “going through a period of turbulence and unpredictability”.

“[What] we are experiencing goes to the very core of the international order – an order that has brought us an unprecedented level of global stability. We cannot allow the fundamental global consensus around international norms and institutions, built painstakingly over decades, to crumble before our eyes.”

He called out the growing influence wielded by “a handful of unelected tech oligarchs” who “have our data: they know where we live, what we do, our genes and our health conditions, our thoughts, our habits, our desires and our fears”.

Türk added: “They know how to manipulate us.”

[...]

Türk, whose comments were not limited to the situation in the US but could also apply to tech leaders in China and India, said that “any form of unregulated power can lead to oppression, subjugation, and even tyranny – the playbook of the autocrat”. — Guardian - Human Rights

it's the long term I don't believe in. — Vera Mont

What do you mean by that? And what does it mean for the way you feel and live your life now?

So we have been playing monopoly for a century or so, and now we can see who has won. So that game is over, and we can ignore the winners counting their money and gloating, and get on with our spirited levelling without them. It's a better game, and lasts longer. Start here, or wherever you may happen to be. — unenlightened

Thank you for this and the link. Positive and inspiring.
Yes, we are all in this game of life, so we must try to keep our spirits from falling to the low level people would push us. Deep, deep, down.

It's natural to go through ups and downs. Experience and knowledge of how to cope with physical and mental challenges can help to balance spirits. To rise from the depths, stay afloat, find our tranquil waters and space to breathe. Sharing thoughts, like this. Here. Right now.

But sometimes, we are our own worst enemy. We dwell in the dark spots of our mind. The inner voice of the 'devil' giving us a hard time. Be good to yourself, first and foremost.

Thanks to you both. Most interesting to hear your thoughts and speculations as to the European and Global Crisis. Useful analyses to consider.

And with power going to his head, Trump as the "Master of the Universe" starts with royal decrees called executive orders (because why would he try anything as difficult and time consuming as passing legislation) to mold the US and the World to his liking. Make Gaza a resort! Annex Greenland and Panama, make Canada the 51st state of the US, have a drug-war in Mexico! And then of course, have quickly a peace in Ukraine and get that Nobel-prize, just like Obama. And do deals with Russia.
[...]
Yet it's always the ineptness of Trump that will backfire here. I gather that there's not going to be the Trump peace in Ukraine, just as the new shared friendship with Russia won't become the success story that Trump think it will be. Trump has already started the smear campaign against Ukraine. — ssu

And really you can look at it in two ways, 1) a bunch of illiberal autocrats carving up the world that must be opposed at all cost, or 2) the beginnings of a more stable organisation of the region without the US.

I think we should stop fighting the geo-political wave lest we drown, and try to ride it in a direction that actually has some potential. — ChatteringMonkey

***

Pertinent to the conversation. Another Opinion Piece and summary of where we're at:

Trump has utterly changed the rules of engagement. World leaders must learn this – and quickly.

It’s not only about Donald Trump. It’s not just about saving Ukraine, or defeating Russia, or how to boost Europe’s security, or what to do about an America gone rogue.

It’s about a world turned upside down – a dark, fretful, more dangerous place where treaties and laws are no longer respected, alliances are broken, trust is fungible, principles are negotiable and morality is a dirty word. It’s an ugly, disordered world of raw power, brute force, selfish arrogance, dodgy deals and brazen lies. It’s been coming for a while; the US president is its noisy harbinger.

Take the issues one at a time...
[...]

Russia must be reminded that the west has teeth, too – and will, if forced, resist Putin’s unlawful aggression with everything it has got. Enough of Trump’s scaremongering nonsense about a third world war. Putin is a mass murderer, not a mad murderer. He’s also a coward.

Given Trump’s treachery and threats to cut military aid, only a strong, united Europe stands a chance of preventing Ukraine’s defeat on the battlefield.Were Ukraine forced to capitulate to a Kremlin deal and lose its sovereignty, it would set a disastrous precedent for free people everywhere, from Taiwan and Tibet to Moldova, Estonia, Panama and Greenland.

Marco Rubio, Trump’s obsequious secretary of state, spoke revealingly last month about his vision of a 21st-century world dominated by the US, Russia and China, and divided into 19th-century geopolitical spheres of influence. It was necessary to rebuild US relations with Moscow, Rubio argued, to maintain this imperious tripartite balance of power.

This is the partitioned future that awaits if Trump’s surrender strategy prevails and he and Putin carve up Ukraine.

Such a global catastrophe was foretold. In his novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, George Orwell describes a nightmare world divvied up between three great empires or superstates, Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia, which deliberately stoke unceasing hostilities. Their shared characteristics: totalitarianism, mass surveillance, repression, immorality, gross inhumanity. Sound familiar?

Annalena Baerbock, foreign minister of Germany, a country that knows much about fascism, past and present, recently said that a “new era of wickedness has begun”. Ukrainians, under occupation, are only too familiar with the evil that has descended upon their heads.

This is the violent, lawless dystopia towards which the Americans in the Oval Office are leading us. Unless they are stopped. Unless we fight. Unless Europe resists.
— The Guardian - Simon Tisdall

BTL Comments are open and should be interesting to read...

European and world leaders coming together for Ukraine summit, London.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/02/ukraine-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy-keir-starmer-donald-trump-us-europe-eu-russia-defence-latest-live-news#top-of-blog

Interestingly, it looked like Ukrainian ambassador to the UK and former commander in chief of Ukrainian armed forces Valerii Zaluzhnyi, tipped to be a potential candidate in future Ukrainian presidential elections, has just got in too, arriving in the same way as other leaders, through the main entrance (unlike other ambassadors).

Is this a part of the usual diplomatic protocol for these events, or could this be a way of responding to US (and Russian) comments on Ukrainian elections to send a signal that whoever is the future Ukrainian leader is aligned with what is being discussed in London today? — The Guardian - Ukraine Peace Summit

Those present:

Front row from left:

Finland’s president Alexander Stubb
France’s president Emmanuel Macron
Britain’s prime minister Keir Starmer
Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskyy
Poland’s prime minister Donald Tusk.

Center row from left:

Spain’s prime minister Pedro Sánchez
Denmark’s prime minister Mette Frederiksen
European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen
European Council president Antonio Costa
Canada’s prime minister Justin Trudeau
Romania’s interim President Ilie Bolojan.

Back row from left:

Nato secretary general Mark Rutte
the Netherlands’prime minister Dick Schoof
Sweden’s prime minister Ulf Kristersson
Germany’s chancellor Olaf Scholz
Norway’s prime minister Jonas Gahr Store
Czech Republic’s prime minister Petr Fiala
Italy’s prime minister Giorgia Meloni
Turkey’s foreign minister Hakan Fidan.