Brilliant - I just edited a post in another thread to include this. 'Self-immiserating' - fabulous word :fire:
Lots of interconnecting going on, huh ?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10817/how-do-we-understand-light-and-darkness-is-this-a-question-for-physics-or-impossible-metaphysics

It's strange but, I think certain types of literature simulate experiential states not completely alien to substance use. Of course there are differences, but I've found similarities. It's weird, but seems to have happened to me a few times. — Manuel

The strangest ever experience I had was when I was ill, lying in bed.
There, I read 'Autobiography of a Yogi'. The imagery resulted in 2 days writing poetry non-stop.
The words seemed to come from nowhere without any direct input from myself. Scary as hell. While all this was going on, I kept thinking that I must have a fever. Brain delirium.

Who knows...but many have been inspired by this book...including George Harrison :cool:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobiography_of_a_Yogi

I haven't read it since and can't imagine it would have the same effect on me now.

I think that religious imagery draws on symbolism of light and dark in a major way. One aspect of this is in the mythological accounts of the fall within the Christian tradition. Lucifer was an angel of light, who misused the light and incurred his own fall, and the this led to the fall of the angels and the consequent fall of mankind. — Jack Cummins

Yes. That much is clear.
I haven't sung in church since my parents' funerals, about 4yrs ago.
But given that we have been looking at song lyrics, I looked up modern hymns - out of curiosity.

About the power of Jesus:
'Let Your Light Shine In The Darkness' - (with lyrics) New Scottish Hymns (4:43)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHgl-RMvfY

how light seems to be part of many spiritual experiences. — Jack Cummins

Yes. Seeing the light, even if only for a moment - I guess the scene can be set up by and for ourselves.
Chanting Incantations - Enchantment for the Disenchanted...

We might find a light sense of peace, gratitude and acceptance when we seek some kind of a meaningful connection with others. To take ourselves out of our own dark miserygutsiness.
[edit to add: a better expression = self-immiseration found here: @180 Proof :fire:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/530555 ]

However not 'everything under the sun is in tune' and it isn't a 'Matter of fact it's all dark'.

The one thing that gave me an 'Aha!' moment in a philo forum was early on.
I had been looking, I think, at Dennett v Chalmers - thinking I had to have a right answer to the question of consciousness or qualia. It had to be one or the other. But I kept finding bits I agreed with in both. *

Later. I read and struggled with Kierkegaard's 'Either/Or'.

It outlines a theory of human existence, marked by the distinction between an essentially hedonistic, aesthetic mode of life and the ethical life, which is predicated upon commitment.
The aesthetic is the personal, subjective realm of existence, where an individual lives and extracts pleasure from life only for their own sake. In this realm, one has the possibility of the highest as well as the lowest. The ethical, on the other hand, is the civic realm of existence, where one's value and identity are judged and at times superseded by the objective world.

In simple terms, one can choose either to remain oblivious to all that goes on in the world, or to become involved. More specifically, the ethic realm starts with a conscious effort to choose one's life, with a choice to choose. Either way, however, an individual can go too far in these realms and lose sight of his or her true self. Only faith can rescue the individual from these two opposing realms. Either/Or concludes with a brief sermon hinting at the nature of the religious sphere of existence, which Kierkegaard spent most of his publishing career expounding upon. Ultimately, Kierkegaard's challenge is for the reader to "discover a second face hidden behind the one you see"[4] in him/herself first, and then in others. — Wiki - Either/Or

* Someone suggested that it might be the case that both Chalmers and Dennett were right, in certain aspects.
I realised, then, that I didn't need a definitive and absolutely certain answer to any philosophical question. What a relief. I can deal with uncertainty... not knowing...but exploring...
It is not about either/or.
Black and white thinking is not for me.
There are so many colourful and imaginative ways of thinking, being or doing - why limit yourself ?

You had to reply didn't you? — TheMadFool

Yeah. I find it difficult not to, sometimes - more's the pity :sad:

Are you a writer by any chance? You know, like, having written novels, articles, in an official capacity? — TheMadFool

No. Wot wiv my atroshus gramma an' all :gasp:
However, I enjoy writing here - as a way to enlightenment :wink: :sparkle:
You ?

I'm try to be simple minded about things, so the one quote that I can share about this topic, would be this:
"It's always night or we wouldn't need light." - Thelonious Monk
What he means by this, is up to you. But he seems to me to be right — Manuel

Only in the darkness can you see the stars.” ~MLK, Jr
Both physical and metaphorical (mystical) it seems to me. — 180 Proof

K.I.S.S. :sparkle: :kiss:

Plenty of quotes on light and darkness:

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

“Hope is being able to see that there is light despite all of the darkness.” — Desmond Tutu — Famous quotes

Really? It looked like you two just started! Thank God! — TheMadFool

Yeah, have moved on to prisms. Of light. More fun :wink:

in absolute light there is nothing not visible as in absolute darkness — evtifron

Absolute light can blind, so that nothing is visible.

"There are two kinds of light — the glow that illumines, and the glare that obscures."
― James Thurber
The power to create a blanket of absolute light. Sub-power of Light Manipulation. Opposite to Absolute Darkness.

The user can create a field of absolute light that blinds the targets either temporarily or permanently and may also dull or even completely negate the other senses. They are potentially able to generate light so intense it can completely obliterate objects in its path without heat.
— Absolute Light

Having fun, guys/gals as the case maybe?

Carry on! — TheMadFool

Thanks for the invitation but ''No Thanks'' !
The thread provided some lovely quirky moments - a nice mix of serious and fun...but I'm done... :cool:

And then there is the light and dark in Goethe's 'Kennst du das Land':
Parallel translations, here:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/kennst-du-das-land-mignon-do-you-know-land.html

Do you know the land where the lemon-trees grow,
In darkened leaves the gold-oranges glow,
A soft wind blows from the pure blue sky,
The myrtle stands mute, and the bay tree high?
Do you know it well?
It’s there I’d be gone,
To be there with you, O, my beloved one!

Do you know the house? It has columns and beams,
There are glittering rooms, the hallway gleams,
Are those figures of marble looking at me?
What have they done, child of misery?
Do you know it well?
It’s there I’d be gone,
To be there, with you, O my true guardian!

Do you know the clouded mountain mass?
The mule picks its way through the misted pass,
And dragons in caves raise their ancient brood,
And the cliffs are polished, smooth, by the flood;
Do you know it well?
It’s there I would be gone!
It’s there our way leads!
Father, we must go on!

https://lyricstranslate.com

Goethe on light and darkness.

In 1832, Goethe died in Weimar of apparent heart failure. His last words, according to his doctor Carl Vogel, were, Mehr Licht! (More light!)... — wiki article: Goethe

Throughout his life, Goethe had a deep fascination for the physical and metaphorical effects of light on humans. Whilst being best remembered now for his literary works, he himself believed the scientific treatise The Theory of Colours, which he published in 1810, to be his most important work.

Although a confirmed non-believer for almost all of his life, a year before dying Goethe sided with the eclectic Hypsistarian sect, writing in a letter to a friend that:

"A joyous light thus beamed at me suddenly out of a dark age, for I had the feeling that all my life I had been aspiring to qualify as a Hypsistarian."

He spent the evening before his death discussing optical phenomena with his daughter-in-law.

All of the above might lead us to believe that his celebrated deathbed cry of Mehr Licht! (More light!) was a plea for increased enlightenment before dying. The truth appears to be more prosaic. What he actually said (in German) was:

"Do open the shutter of the bedroom so that more light may enter".

-------------


I downloaded this thesis because it sounds interesting. Haven't read it yet...

Analysis of light metaphors in Goethe's 'Faust'

http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/islandora/object/fsu%3A253211#:~:text=This%20paper%20examines%20a%20series%20of%20light%20metaphors,to%20a%20blind%20man%20shortly%20before%20his%20death.

This paper examines a series of light metaphors in Goethe's Faust. The purpose is to display a connection between each light metaphor and major developments in Faust's character, namely his development from a restless scholar imprisoned in his study to a blind man shortly before his death. The order in which the light metaphors are introduced is not chronological; rather they follow a thematic sequence from night to day to night. The purpose of this particular progression is to show more clearly Faust's movement from one mindset to the next. The order, moonlight to rising sun to rainbow to setting sun to inner light, reinforces much of what is claimed in this paper's main argument. I assert that a series of light metaphors are connected to Faust as the subjective extensions and expressions of his thoughts about the nature of knowledge and man's place in relation to the Absolute in the wake of series of trials and tribulations. Furthermore, I argue that these light metaphors, when connected thematically as opposed to chronologically, trace the cyclical nature of Faust's, and possibly man's, intellectual enterprise. This thesis combines my own interpretation of the main text with those of other major scholars in the field in order to best argue my points. In the end it will be shown that the various light metaphors are connected to Faust's personal development and display the perennial disposition of human activity as he searches for truth and knowledge in a world of uncertainty.

Of course, I realise that the invisible and visible, light and darkness, are probably a spectrum, rather than a binary split, although we may perceive these as being opposites. — Jack Cummins

I am trying to connect the physical with the symbolic and metaphysical, — Jack Cummins

If you are interested in other aspects of light and darkness, you can read literature, poetry, etc. But any concept we use is extremely rich, complex and multifaceted. — Manuel

@Manuel Exactly.

Addressing the physical first:
[ Goethe, as a poet philosopher, has more to say and play with in the symbolic and metaphysical sense]

Goethe developed a Theory Of Colours.
All quotes from wiki.

Goethe was initially induced to occupy himself with the study of colour by the questions of hue in painting. "During his first journey to Italy (1786–88), he noticed that artists were able to enunciate rules for virtually all the elements of painting and drawing except color and coloring. In the years 1786–88, Goethe began investigating whether one could ascertain rules to govern the artistic use of color."[33]

In the preface to the Theory of Colours, Goethe explained that he tried to apply the principle of polarity, in the work—a proposition that belonged to his earliest convictions and was constitutive of his entire study of nature.[13]

Goethe outlines his method in the essay, The experiment as mediator between subject and object (1772).[19] It underscores his experiential standpoint. "The human being himself, to the extent that he makes sound use of his senses, is the most exact physical apparatus that can exist." (Goethe, Scientific Studies[14])

I believe that what Goethe was really seeking was not a physiological but a psychological theory of colours. — Ludwig Wittgenstein, Culture and Value, MS 112 255:26.11.1931

Unlike his contemporaries, Goethe didn't see darkness as an absence of light, but rather as polar to and interacting with light; colour resulted from this interaction of light and shadow. For Goethe, light is "the simplest most undivided most homogeneous being that we know. Confronting it is the darkness" (Letter to Jacobi).

Based on his experiments with turbid media, Goethe characterized colour as arising from the dynamic interplay of darkness and light. Rudolf Steiner, the science editor for the Kurschner edition of Goethe's works, gave the following analogy:

Modern natural science sees darkness as a complete nothingness. According to this view, the light which streams into a dark space has no resistance from the darkness to overcome. Goethe pictures to himself that light and darkness relate to each other like the north and south pole of a magnet. The darkness can weaken the light in its working power. Conversely, the light can limit the energy of the darkness. In both cases color arises.
— Rudolf Steiner, 1897[20]

Goethe expresses this more succinctly:[21]

[..] white that becomes darkened or dimmed inclines to yellow; black, as it becomes lighter, inclines to blue.
In other words: Yellow is a light which has been dampened by darkness; Blue is a darkness weakened by light...

Since the colour phenomenon relies on the adjacency of light and dark, there are two ways to produce a spectrum: with a light beam in a dark room, and with a dark beam (i.e., a shadow) in a light room.

Goethe recorded the sequence of colours projected at various distances from a prism for both cases (see Plate IV, Theory of Colours). In both cases, he found that the yellow and blue edges remain closest to the side which is light, and red and violet edges remain closest to the side which is dark. At a certain distance, these edges overlap—and we obtain Newton's spectrum.

While re-thinking is the exchange of conceptual validity, which is an entailed judgement alone, re-thinking is not necessarily conceptual substitution, which is a separated cognition incorporating its own conditions.
— Mww

I have no idea what this means but it looks great. — Tom Storm

Sounds to me like a special kind of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious-ism :chin:

What happens if we now say no to Nihilism too?
— TheMadFool
Our teeth continue to rot as if nothing happened. — baker

@TheMadFool is practising absenteethism.

'11 Funny Cartoons That Perfectly Illustrate The Struggles Of Modern-Day Living'

https://www.awesomeinventions.com/cartoons-struggles-modern-day-living/

I don’t particularly care about this point. — khaled

:smile: Is that a shrugism or just a shruggie ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Jungian-ism See @Tom Storm
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/528637

Same goes for Protestant-ism, no ?

I meant to ask re the heading:
'Is Dewey's pragmatism misunderstood ?'

Why is this important to you ?
What is your own understanding of what it means ?

Dewey theory of truth is interesting from a instrumental or naturalistic perspective. — Nzomigni

Explain more, please - unpack this a little, my underlines ?
I can read this * at my leisure - but just wondering what it means to/for you, ta.

* https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-pragmatic/

An A - Z of isms:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/ideas/playlists/the-a-z-of-isms
Writers, academics and thinkers share their takes on some of the world's most important ideas (plus a few fun ones).

Don't think in english. — Nzomigni

Non e' possibile :wink:

Britishisms (2:43)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/ideas/videos/britishisms-know-your-mucker-from-your-muppet/p06dct2h?playlist=the-a-z-of-isms

Not all isms end with “ism” — khaled

Example?

To reject all isms is another ism. “Rejectism” let’s call it. — khaled

:cool: but already taken:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rejectism

Rejectism is the act of people not passing the ball to you in any form of sport with a ball when you are clearly open and asking for the ball.

It is mainly used by people who are not big participaters in sport and when they actually feel like doing something no one passes them the ball

But then again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejectionism

Isms are paradigms appropriate within their worlds or fields...
There will always be those who wish to reify them, render them overarching, though. The troubled search for a theory of everything! TOEism... — Janus

Like a butterfly collection but with thoughts being held down by the pin. — Valentinus

What do you call a collection of -isms ?
A bit of history on the use of -isms:

The first recorded usage of the suffix ism as a separate word in its own right was in 1680. By the nineteenth century it was being used by Thomas Carlyle to signify a pre-packaged ideology. It was later used in this sense by such writers as Julian Huxley and George Bernard Shaw.

In the United States of the mid-nineteenth century, the phrase "the isms" was used as a collective derogatory term to lump together the radical social reform movements of the day (such as slavery abolitionism, feminism, alcohol prohibitionism, Fourierism, pacifism, Technoism, early socialism, etc.) and various spiritual or religious movements considered non-mainstream by the standards of the time (such as Transcendentalism, spiritualism or "spirit rapping", Mormonism, the Oneida movement often accused of "free love", etc.).

Southerners often prided themselves on the American South being free from all of these pernicious "Isms" (except for alcohol temperance campaigning, which was compatible with a traditional Protestant focus on individual morality). — wiki

[emphasis added ]
Is this an American specialism ?

Hi and welcome.
I haven't delved in to the various 'pragmatist schools' and only have a superficial understanding.
I think I took a peek once because I thought 'Pragmatism' would fit my fairly practical attitude to life.
But came away, thinking, ''Nah...not for me''.

So, your OP brings a bit of re-view, to think again, thanks.

Even if James probably derive this theory of truth from the maxim, i don't think it make justice to pragmatism potiential to characterize it as mere instrumentalism. Still, Dewey theory of truth is interesting from a instrumental or naturalistic perspective. — Nzomigni

Haven't looked at the SEP article yet.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pragmatism/

However, I listened to Hilary Putnam on James, Dewey and Pragmatism (5:39)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEev1OnbaYA

This is followed by an 'Introduction to American Pragmatism' (41:26)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmbyCybs_QI

In this BBC episode of In Our Time, Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss American Pragmatism. According to William James, the pragmatist "turns away from abstraction and insufficiency, from verbal solutions, from bad a priori reasons, from fixed principles, closed systems, and pretended absolutes and origins. He turns towards concreteness and adequacy, towards facts, towards action and towards power". William James, along with Charles Sanders Peirce and John Dewey, were the founders of the American philosophical movement which flowered during the last thirty years of the nineteenth century and the first twenty years of the 20th century. It took knowledge to be meaningful only when coupled with action. The function of thought was taken not to represent or "mirror" the world, but instead was considered an instrument or tool for prediction, problem-solving, and action. In this way, it was a philosophy deeply embedded in the reality of life, concerned firstly with the individual's direct experience of the world they inhabit. How did pragmatism harness the huge scientific leap forward that had come with Charles Darwin's ideas on evolution? And how did this dynamic new philosophy challenge the doubts expressed by the skeptics about the nature and extent of knowledge? Did pragmatism influence the economic and political ascendancy of America in the early 20th century? And how does it relate to relativism and post-modernism? Melvyn Bragg discusses some of these questions regarding pragmatism with A. C. Grayling, Julian Baggini, and Miranda Fricker.

This is from the BBC radio program In Our Time. For a more in-depth discussion of pragmatism, check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjNyp...​

I look forward to hearing more about this...what difference does it make to hold a position of Pragmatism...what or who did it influence; how is it applied ?

Less calming.
'Amazonia' - Gojira
Embedded in:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/apr/30/nature-is-hurting-gojira-the-metal-band-confronting-the-climate-crisis

Interview

‘Nature is hurting’: Gojira, the metal band confronting the climate crisis
Matt Mills
Gojira,
With stirring songwriting that considers grief, philosophy and ecological collapse, the French quartet have become one of the world’s greatest heavy bands. They discuss their journey so far.

Lovely and calming :sparkle:
I even managed to follow the score as I watched the pianist's fingers...made it look easy...

Ah - thanks for explanation - seems Nietzsche has good taste too :sparkle:

Had never heard of Billie Eilish until this morning.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/apr/29/billie-eilish-your-power-review-chilling-ballad-seeps-under-your-skin
Her 'Your Power' song is embedded in article but appears to be cut off at end...

'No Time To Die' - Billie Eilish ( theme to 25th James Bond film)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BboMpayJomw

I should have known
I'd leave alone
Just goes to show
That the blood you bleed
Is just the blood you owe

We were a pair
But I saw you there
Too much to bear
You were my life, but life is far away from fair

Was I stupid to love you?
Was I reckless to help?
Was it obvious to everybody else?

That I'd fallen for a lie
You were never on my side
Fool me once, fool me twice
Are you death or paradise?
Now you'll never see me cry
There's just no time to die

I let it burn
You're no longer my concern
Faces from my past return
Another lesson yet to learn

That I'd fallen for a lie
You were never on my side
Fool me once, fool me twice
Are you death or paradise?
Now you'll never see me cry
There's just no time to die

No time to die, mmm
No time to die, ooh

Fool me once, fool me twice
Are you death or paradise?
Now you'll never see me cry
There's just no time to die

Songwriters: Oconnell Finneas Baird, O'connell Billie Eilish
For non-commercial use only.
Data from: Musixmatch

Hah :100:
Ain't that the truth :cool:

Follow up to: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/529106

More moos and moosik. From mentalfloss website:

The Song That Eases the Anxious Bovine Mind Blasting R.E.M.’s “Everybody Hurts” at 5 a.m. might not seem like the best recipe for increased productivity, but it works for cows. Researchers in the United Kingdom have shown that playing slow, melodic songs can reduce bovine stress, prompting cows to produce nearly a half a pint more milk per day than they would without music. Of all the songs the scientists tested, R.E.M.’s ode to empathy led the list of songs that yielded the most milk, especially when played daily from 5 a.m. to 5 p.m. If you are a lonely cow, living in a barn, with your udders constantly being tugged, maybe it helps to know that everybody cries, and everybody hurts, sometimes.

This is just too weird. Posted R.E.M. song here, just a few days ago:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/526539

Selection brilliant - all 3 :fire: :heart: :100:
Also love the quotes - dancing with your pen tonight ?

I'm acquiring a taste for F.N.
Never thought such parole would pass my lips...

Just a playful ouroboros. — 180 Proof

I am dizzy enough already, merci beaucoup.
Circling around your sinuous, subtle sensuosity...
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/529244

Even worse now - you edited the post :brow:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/529281

Hey! I resemble that remark. — T Clark

Is that a 'woof' I hear :wink:

From: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201211/how-dogs-bark-in-different-languages

....there is no universally accepted sound that humans use to represent dog barks. Even in a single language, there may be a number of different words used for a dog's bark, for example, in English, we recognize "woof-woof," "arf-arf", "ruff-ruff" and "bow-wow." Many languages also have different words for the barks of large versus small dogs, thus "yip-yip" or "yap-yap" are used in English for the barking sounds of small dogs, never for big dogs. The only thing that seems to come close to being unanimously agreed upon about dog barks is that dogs almost always speak twice—thus a Hebrew dog says "hav-hav", a Japanese dog says "wan-wan" and a Kurdish dog says "hau-hau".

...American Sign Language (ASL) → Both closed fists held horizontally together-fingers in towards each other. Quickly open the fists together to expose the fingers twice.

Like this ? :cheer: :cheer:

Turned sideways...or upside down...where is the emoticon for dogs barking ?
Is this a blatant case of dogism...or what ?

[Edit to add ] Wow. Who knew there was so much out there on 'dogism' ? :roll:

https://journals.uvic.ca/index.php/albatross/article/view/19078/8240 · PDF file

....dogism inspires a new culture and spirituality according to which the murder of dissenting or nonconforming dogs takes on a sacrificial quality. Atticus and his followers, the doggists, come to view their new gift of consciousness as an immoral contagion that must be suppressed or, ideally, exorcised.

With Fifteen Dogs (2015), André Alexis presents the riddle of what it means to be human without prescribing his own solution. The task of deciding which of the hybrid dogs’ behaviours arise from which of their constituent elements—human or dog—is left up to the reader. This essay presents a theoretical exploration of the human-like violence found within Fifteen Dogs.

I argue that the violence exhibited by the hybrid dogs is of a distinctly human quality and is fuelled by a fascistic ideology, which I call dogism. *

Attention is given to two particular manifestations of such violence: the sacrificial culling of the pack and the Garden of Death.

Greek gods making bets over drinks at a Toronto bar? Dogs capable of abstract thought?
With Fifteen Dogs (2015), André Alexis clearly sets out to defamiliarize the familiar.

* author Erin Chewter

↪Amity ↪Olivier5 ↪Amity :point:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/529244 — 180 Proof

What are you trying to say ? Should we post same songs in both, or choose the more relevant thread ?
'Parole, parole' - Mina
Featuring artist: Alberto Lupo
:point:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/529248

'Parole, parole' - Mina ( with Italian lyrics ) 3:49
Featuring artist: Alberto Lupo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ejZaAgx88

Lyrics translated to English:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/parole-words.html

Talking about Burning and the Eurovision Song Contest.

Nero has serious competition.

The UK entry.
'Embers' - James Newman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMDGTsa_Qq0

The Semi-Finals will take place on 18 and 20 May 2021. The Grand Final takes place on 22 May 2021. Rotterdam here we come...covid or no ?

More nul points than we can count :party:

Nero Burns Rome and Sings :fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEj1h7BC2b4

Ancient Roman Music

The music of ancient Rome was a part of Roman culture from the earliest of times. Songs (carmen) were an integral part of almost every social occasion.[1] The Secular Ode of Horace, for instance, was commissioned by Augustus and performed by a mixed children's choir at the Secular Games in 17 BC.[2]...

...During the Imperial period, Romans carried their music to the provinces, while traditions of Asia Minor, North Africa and Gaul became a part of Roman culture.[5]

Music accompanied spectacles and events in the arena, and was part of the performing arts form called pantomimus, an early form of story ballet that combined expressive dancing, instrumental music and a sung libretto.[6]...

...In spite of the purported lack of musical originality on the part of the Romans, they did enjoy music greatly and used it for many activities. Music was also used in religious ceremonies. The Romans cultivated music as a sign of education.[24] Music contests were quite common and attracted a wide range of competition, including Nero himself, who performed widely as an amateur and once travelled to Greece to compete.
— wiki

My underlined: The first Eurovision Song Contest ? :gasp:

Ultra deep song about acculturation, the Italians, and all that... ;-) — Olivier5

:cool: Hey Mambo, Mambo Italiano!
Hey Mambo, hey Mambo Italiano!
Go, go, Joe, shake-a like a Gioviano

I so needed that after a heavy diet of German Goethe :up: :flower:

Goethe quote:

“One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem, see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable words.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship

From: https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/285217.Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe

Franz Schubert: Erlkönig (4:30)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS91p-vmSf0
[ Music by Franz Schubert. Poem by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (see below for translation).
Created by Oxford Lieder: www.oxfordlieder.co.uk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlk%C3%B6nig

"Erlkönig" is a poem by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. It depicts the death of a child assailed by a supernatural being, the Erlking, a king of the fairies. It was originally written by Goethe as part of a 1782 Singspiel, Die Fischerin.

"Erlkönig" has been called Goethe's "most famous ballad".[1] The poem has been set to music by several composers, most notably by Franz Schubert. — wiki

The Elfking

Who rides so late through the windy night?
It is the father and his child.
He holds the boy,
Warm and safe.

Son, why do you hide your face in fear?
Father, do you not see the Elfking?
With his crown and train?
Son, it's just the mist.

Come with me, lovely child
We'll play games
There are flowers on the beach and
My mother has golden clothes

Father, can't you hear
What the Elfking is promising me?
Be calm, my boy --
It's only the wind in the leaves.

Lovely boy, will you come with me?
My daughters will wait on you
My daughters will sing and dance for you
and rock you to sleep.

Father, do you not see
The Elfking's daughters there?
Son, it's the old willows shining
In the moonlight.

I love you -- I'm aroused by your beautiful form
And if you won't come, I will take you by force
Father, father, he has grabbed me.
The Elfking has hurt me.

The father shudders. He rides fast,
the groaning boy in his arms,
Anxious, he reaches the farm.
In his arms, the boy is dead.

(Translation by Daniel Norman)

'Gretchen am Spinnrade' - composed by Schubert, using text from Goethe's 'Faust' (Pt 1, Scene 15), sung by Kiri Te Kanawa (3.55)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY0eeotSDi8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_am_Spinnrade

...The song opens with Gretchen at her spinning wheel, thinking of Faust and all that he had promised. The accompaniment in the right hand mimics the perpetual movement of the spinning-wheel and the left hand imitates the foot treadle. The initial key of D minor sets a longing tone as Gretchen begins to sing of her heartache ("Meine Ruh' ist hin/Mein herz ist schwer"). The first section progresses from D minor to C major, A minor, E minor, F major, and then returns to D minor. This, plus the crescendo, builds tension which releases only to be brought back to the beginning, much like the ever-circling spinning wheel... — wiki

Lieder and Goethe - Goethe the Musician and his influence on German Song.

Germany's greatest poet, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832), seemed to have perfectly attuned artistic sensibilities, and yet it was him who utterly failed to recognise the brilliance of the songs Franz Schubert made from his poems.
Professor Richard Stokes, of the Royal Academy of Music, investigates this seeming paradox through a review of Goethe's life and an analyses of his poems and their adaptation into Lieder by Schubert. — Prof Stokes: Lecture and transcript re Goethe

Stokes' lecture starts at c. 5mins in. There's a 30min General Intro followed by 6 songs which are then discussed.