Old people can genuinely want to die: — ssu

Yes, and I see them as happy to not have an eternal life.
Nice that you lived through your crisis and know that we live vicariously through those we hang around for and love.

Regards
DL

Never heard a word about "I will be with them" or any thoughts of that sort. — Frank Apisa

My experience with the very old follows your pattern of not hearing them talk of that nonsense either.

Regards
DL

i feel i explained my take on this in a previous post. Perhaps we can argue about the same thing some other day. — christian2017

Poorly, but as you wish.

Regards
DL

you do understand Gnostic Christianity started out accept to some degree the divinity of Jesus, right?
Please explain to me what your particular denomination of Gnostic Christianity believes. You say you don't believe in the super natural. — christian2017

We, like Karaite Jews and Buddhists, are a good man ideology. Not a good supernatural god ideology. Jesus was not considered divine in the way you would describe divine.

This link speaks to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

I wouldn't phrase it like that. — christian2017

Perhaps not but I see that you do not refute that the evil is not cancelled out. There is hope for your moral sense yet.

Would you agree that Joseph Stalin was an atheist bigot who murdered millions of people for the cause of preserving Soviet Russia? — christian2017

Stalin can kill but cannot cure. He killed because he thought he had to for some reason.

Yahweh can kill as well as cure yet choses to kill. From a moral standpoint, Yahweh is a much more immoral entity.

Strange that you wish to make a moral equivalency between a genocidal human and your genocidal god when god is supposed to be the best word and last word in moral, and ethical behavior.

Regards
DL

Yes.

Life is long and one will tire of it after a while.
I am happy to know that somebody else will get a chance to live.

Sometimes that seems like I believe in reincarnation and sometimes it doesn't. — andrewk

I hold no supernatural belief but I like your answer buddy.

Regards
DL

As one gets older (I;m 82)...a thing happens that can best be stated as, "The fact that I am going to die is less troubling to me than it was when I was younger." — Frank Apisa

I will read this as you getting happier.
I base my getting happier on the how much happiness and purpose I get from life.
When I run out of both, I will be really happy that I will die as then life would have little to no meaning.

My elderly aunt (9 years older than I) WANTS to die. She is not in despair, but she feels her life no longer has the kind of meaning that it had a while back...and is looking forward to release. — Frank Apisa

I have seen that and is partially what prompted the question.
Do you think she would tell god where to put his eternal life if he offered it?
I believe I would as more of the same old same old would not be appealing to me.

Regards
DL

I am happy that I have lived as fully as possible, for some time now. I think that is what happens to anyone who faces death as a matter-of-fact issue, and keeps that thought around. I ready myself for death by wanting more and more out of life. — Louco

A perfect attitude. I share it.

So many people seem to forget death, to simply absorb themselves in other matters — Louco

I have to admit that I do that as death seldom enters my thinking. That does not prevent me from following your reply that I dubbed as perfect.

Also, so many people think they will continue to exist in some form or another, after death. That is just some magical thinking that relegates our real world to become less real. — Louco

True. That is why I hate the lying preachers and imams so much. They rob people of their lives.

It makes people more accepting of polluting and destroying the planet. — Louco

I would not take it that far as they also have children and I hope most want to leave them some kind of environment that can be lived in. It is hard to say though as most parents don't mind spending their inheritance by running tax deficits and loading the debt onto their children.

Regards
DL

why would I be happy if my life functions cease to stop? — Anaxagoras

That was not the question. I was comparing dying to living eternally.

Try this. Do you wish to live for eternity?

I disagree. I do not think all Christians want to die even if they believe they will attain salvation. — Anaxagoras

You think they would not want to be with their god. Ok.

Not according to Judaism and Islam. — Anaxagoras

True. We are not speaking of their ideologies but of the Christian ideology.

Perhaps but how does that fit into the model of what God, so-called wants from us? — Anaxagoras

It fits in as it questions what god wants. If a happy fault and necessary to his plan, then he would want us to sin.

All life forms are destined to die this is the nature of mortal existence....nothing new. — Anaxagoras

Not to Christians who expect their souls to live forever and I think they include new bodies.

I full submit to what God has planned for me. — Anaxagoras

Submit, like a slave, when Jesus said he came to serve and not be served by slaves.

Because it is said in the Bible he was without sin? But more importantly because it was a part in the whole plan?? — Anaxagoras

So you picked the contradiction that serves your thinking better. Quite the way to cherry pick.

First time I'm hearing this. which Christian denomination is saying this? — Anaxagoras

All who recognize Easter as it is an Easter hymn. I do not have the itinerary of all the churches or denominations.

I believe in some way metaphorically, the story of Adam at least in part is to explain the morality of humanity. — Anaxagoras

I agree. Christians condemn him and Gnostic Christians and Jews praise him.
What is your position? Was Eden where man fell, the Christian view even though they praise his happy fault of sinning, or the Gnostic Christian and Jewish position of Eden deing where man was elevated to god like status in terms of our moral sense?

By getting metal nails implanted in his wrists and feet placed up on a Roman instrument and slowly dying from asphyxiation. — Anaxagoras

Ineffective if he did not earn death through sin.

You can do better than this buddy. I hope.

Regards
DL

GCP, Anthony, and tmfool all feel confident christianity sucks and i feel christianity is almost as good or better than gnostisim. I posted my answers above. I'm not going to keep repeating my self.

I've met alot of non christians who have cruel ways of treating people and i do agree there are christians that treat people cruelly. Don't Gnostics believe in punishment for certain behavior? As for why people go to hell forever, i would say only wicked people go to hell forever who have not taken the easy way out and allowed Jesus to forgive them. — christian2017

Why do you think that Christianity is better than Gnostic Christianity?
Christianity grew by inquisition and murder while Gnostic Christianity grew but good moral tenets.
Christianity is a homophobic and misogynous religion. Gnostic Christianity is a universalist religions that see women and gays as equals.
Christians posit that a genocidal and infanticidal god is good while Gnostic Christians think such a mass murderer to be evil.

Speak to those issues just for starters.

Of course Gnostic Christians believe in punishment and justice for evil doers.. Why do Christians punish women and gays for being exactly what Yahweh created them to be? Not that Yahweh is real.

Even if it is only people that end in hell, what kind of god do you have who punishes without purpose when he could just as easily cure them the way Jesus said he came to cure the sinners he ran into?

As to Jesus, your so called savior. Jesus said he came to fulfil the law and here you are trying to make him into a moral monster who would break the laws he came to fulfil. Here are his laws.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral?

Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

Thanks for the useless replies.

Regards
DL

Are you ever going to participate in a discussion? — whollyrolling

I do, in my own way, just as you do.
I like to stick to reality and find little to no value in the supernatural or other fantasies.

Regards
DL

So what you're effectively saying is that it isn't Christianity and fits nowhere within or alongside Christianity. — whollyrolling

That should be obvious given that we have always branded Yahweh as a vile demiurge.

So then I'm left wondering why you'd label yourself with a blatant contradiction of terms other than to troll people or to self-deprecate. — whollyrolling

Tradition, for one, and it opens the door for me to remind the uninformed, like you, that Christianity is a made up religion that began from Chrestianity that was a lot more intelligent than what Christianity became.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rAt-PAkgqls

Regards
DL

I don't think its immoral. There are alot of christian charities and organizations that help people. — christian2017

So you are willing to ignore all the inquisitions and ongoing discrimination caused by their misogyny and homophobias for a few self-serving charities. Ok.

Regards
DL

with messages from gods. — whollyrolling

Messages from god. How droll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YB4J-keW3A

Regards
DL

I'm still waiting for the OP to define "Gnostic Christianity" for me. — whollyrolling

It is a religion of esoteric ecumenists who do not hold any supernatural beliefs and who seek a god, as defined as the best rules and laws to live by.

We, like Buddhists and Karaite Jews put god below man, as he should be, given that all the gods are human inventions.

Regards
DL

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't Gnostic's believe in the supernatural? — christian2017

No. We hold no supernatural beliefs and that may be why we venerate life while you venerate a god who takes it.

Strange that you seem to prefer a god who kills instead of a god who cures instead of killing. You might wonder why while you forgive him for using genocide instead of curing the afflicted the way Jesus said he came to do.

That god of yours sure flip flops in his morality. It is almost like two different gods instead of the trinity idiocy eh?

Regards
DL

read on a person's T-shirt ''Nobody wants to die but everybody wants to go to heaven''. This, I think, sums up our pathetic situation - the chasm that separates hope from fact. — TheMadFool

I hear you.

It would take a vile way of thinking to think that one could spend many thousands of years in heaven above while watching most of those ones loved in life going through purposeless torture and death in hell.

Regards
DL

Anthony — Anthony

Good points.

Regards
DL

A soldier dies for their country because they believe in what their country stands for, — christian2017

In the case of Christianity, it is god, as the state in this scenario, that cause the crisis that demanded a needless death. This link speaks of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-91mSkxaXs

I do not see Jesus as believing in what god stands for as he would not stand for genocide or god giving us the notion that it is somehow good and just to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. Jesus, in fact, followed the Jewish law that posits the reverse as just.

Regards
DL

I would say I believe in the literary Jesus... — Possibility

We can chat more when you recognize what you said in what I quoted, while denying that you wrote that you believe in a literal Jesus. If you do not have the couth to recant, on a spelling or grammar error, we have nothing to say to each other.

Regards
DL

I believe there are decent christians just as there are decent Gnostics. — christian2017

Decent people to not contribute or belong to a homophobic and misogynous church. The decent people will find a moral church.

What compels you to stay in an immoral religion?

Regards.
DL

And yet, its existence is denied. — Banno

As it should be as well as anything else that is unable to show itself.

Regards
DL

it's a puff of "aether" with no impact on reality. — whollyrolling

If only that were true. Unfortunately, the sheeple insure an impact on reality by preaching their homophobic and misogynous ways and creating a lot of harm for women and gays in the real world.

Regards
DL

It's not good to declare that you've discovered God, — S

So say the unenlightened.

Regards
DL

i wish i could say your wrong but at this point in my life i don't have alot of evidence to try to show you otherwise. — christian2017

That and you would have to scrap most of the bible to show the opposite.

What do you find endearing in a god who is infanticide and uses genocide?
What compels you to ignore those traits or see them as somehow good?

Regards
DL

That's a comforting thought, but I think God got carried away dishing out the suffering. — Tom Palmer

Indeed, to the point of genocide and infanticide of his own son.

Regards
DL

Some christians believe — christian2017

Christian beliefs are all over the map and some are even as foolish as believing in the supernatural.

Regards
DL

when they don't even actually know the truth. — Maureen

It is better for theists to admit they do not know if god exists instead of lying about it.

Regards
DL

Then God refuse — hachit

If god would have refused, then he would not have admitted to being move to do harm without a just cause.
Your twisting the words just shows your lack of reading comprehension.

Regards
DL

Are you confusing ‘literal’ with ‘literary’? — Possibility

Is that the word you used? No. So no.

Thanks for showing your lack of couth.

Regards
DL

doesn't at all conform to modern living. — whollyrolling

Indeed. Like the religions that use inquisitions and jihads and are presently homophobic and misogynous like Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

Please help me to understand your terminology--specifically how you differentiate between "Christian" and "Gnostic Christian" and how one of these would believe in an "evil God" while the other doesn't, yet they're both called "Christian". — whollyrolling

I will be happy to oblige after you opine on the O.P.

I need to see how you think before deciding on the best answer for you.

Regards
DL

Go figure. Even though I am terrified of God, I cannot bring myself to worship him or her. — Tom Palmer

Thanks for the kudos.

To what I quoted.

No one with a decent moral sense would worship the god described in scriptures, be he the Yahweh god or the Trinity combo Jesus. The ancient standard are garbage by todays standards.

Why do you fear an imaginary construct?

Regards
DL

The Greek word translated as ‘meek’ does not have the same meaning as the word commonly in use today. What praos means is more along the lines of self-control: — Possibility

I will go with the selection of the compilers of the bible and not yours.

I can only conclude that you have shackled your own intelligence to a limited physical existence. Such a waste. — Possibility

We do not see physical existence the same way. But you ignore that all you are is created by your ind which creates your consciousness and that is all that you are, unless you have gone into intellectual dissonance by belief in the supernatural.

Regards
DL

Use my prifrased version, here it the actual one if you looked it up yourself.

"an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.' — hachit

I see no chapter or verse.

The rest of what you put ignored Job 2;3 and god admitting to be an evil sinner. Why?

Regards
DL

There is little in these two letters that reflect the teachings of Jesus. — Possibility

I agree.

Regards
DL

Or perhaps you read it wrong. Show me where I’ve described belief in a ‘literal and historical Jesus’, because I don’t see it. — Possibility

From your post above.
" I would say I believe in the literary Jesus,"

I questioned you on it but you did not reply.

Regards
DL

We are social animals living in communities. We’re not lone tigers in the jungle. — Noah Te Stroete

That is irrelevant to our evolution.

You are only looking at half the situation and ignoring the other half.

Sure you cooperate with your fellow employees, but you are also competing against your peers so the boss will notice you and advance you before the others.

If you are that (not quite honest) or just looking at the one aspect going on as you work away, it is no wonder you are staying away from moral discussions.

This might help you open your narrow thinking. What I wish to show particularly is in the first few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU

Regards
DL

Have you ever had a job? It’s mostly cooperation with little competition. — Noah Te Stroete

Once your gain it, sure, but you competed against other in the company for advancement. Right?

Have you ever gotten a job without competing --- somehow --- for it?
Not G D likely.

You and I are animals first and foremost and subject to evolution just as all animals are.

Regards
DL