Why did god create them, or anyone for that matter, if he already knew the outcome? — GTTRPNK

Yes. It does seem like Yahweh was just bored and wanted slaves.

They had to invent a reason for Yahweh abandoning us and they used sin.

Regards
DL

if one is of the opinion that knowledge of good and evil are the highest temptations in god's arsenal. — TheMadFool

It is what Adam fell for. He even ignored the tree of life.

I guess he recognized that life without an education was just not worth living.

As to our rebelling. All should rebel against those who would keep us dumbed down and stupid, which is what Yahweh tried and failed to do with A & E.

Some have used that knowledge to praise a genocidal Yahweh and the more moral have used it to condemn his sorry ass.

Regards
DL

It’s a really tough thing to look deep into our own sense of right and wrong rather than just blithely skirt around the difficulty of deciding where and when to draw the line. — I like sushi

Insightful.

Critical thinking helps, but some of those evils are sure good and hard to pas up..

Regards
DL

It must be Ialdaboath tricking them — schopenhauer1

He does not have that power. No myth does.

Regards
DL

Sure he did. He used it to cover his and Eve's 'nakedness' from Yahweh. — 180 Proof

Point to you. I was thinking of the reproduction angle.

God did the killing for the skins though. Bad Yahweh.

Regards
DL

I don’t think of atheism as an ideology. — Becky

If you do not, then you live in a plethora of conflicting definitions.

Have a look at the dogs breakfast of terms and I hope you cannot blame me for trying to simplify the language.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

---------------

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

Simply because you don’t know it does not mean you have to fear it — Becky

I agree. I hold no such fear of the unknown.

Regards
DL

I would argue both. — christian2017

All that is said of imaginary gods is speculative nonsense.

Even if your god were real, he should be rejected for the satanic prick that he is.

Would you follow Hitler out of fear?

Why, if not fear, do you follow a genocidal god?

Regards
DL

Rights are not given by God, — Congau

I agree.

I do not think one can be given a right unless the means of enforcing it is also given.One can only take a right that he is willing to enforce himself.

Regards
DL

I'm not a big fan of globalism — christian2017

Yet you belong to a fascist religion that seeks world dominance and did not mind using inquisitions and murder to make it so.

Nice religion you follow. Not.

Regards
DL

Rights, Bishop, are demanded and defended, not "given"; — 180 Proof

I agree that rights and privileges are something taken and cannot really be given.

As you say there might be Indian givers out there.

Even some freed slaves did not want to accept their freedom when the North offered it to them.

Regards
DL

The Christianity I understand is not very soft. — Valentinus

Read what I put again please. I said nothing of a soft Christianity.

Regards
DL

Knowledge itself is not "good or evil"; rather using knowledge can be "good or evil" or neither (i.e. instrumental, pragmatic). — 180 Proof

Adam did not use the knowledge he gained before Yahweh evicted him from Eden.

Can you use knowledge for good or evil when you have none?

Would Adam have been better off to never reproduce or know what that thing between his legs was there to do?

Was na godlike moral sense not worthy of his wanting?

Regards
DL

It is the way we practice religion that counts. Established religions are only different contexts in which people practice their faith. That is, what we believe is not very important. They way we live is. — EnPassant

Hi Frenchi

I like your thinking but it is the beliefs that the mainstream sheeple hold that has them adoring a genocidal prick of a god and his homophobic and misogynous teachings that Yahweh and Allah's sheeple practice with much zeal.

Immoral people all.

A prochaine mon ami.

Regards
DL

Then you accuse me of "literal reading" of "myths". — TheMadFool

My quote.
"I did not think you were of that type but read the following if you are."

That is not what I would call an accusation. but then I am French. Perhaps my being what I term, in your face, you see as accusation.

Regards
DL

MadFool

If I am to engage with literalists, I have to play in their ball park and by their rules.

I cannot correct their poor thinking if I do not let them or cannot get them to engage.

Regards
DL

I thought Jesus came back from the dead, — TheMadFool

Sigh. Then you are a fool withoiut the mad.

I did not think you were of that type but read the following if you are.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

Why would I change perfection?

You have already shown your garbage personal character with your gratuitous insults and claims without even showing what you are referring to.

Go away, fool.

Regards
DL

You are way out of your depths. What you've written on the last two pages is a textbook example of hypocrisy and trying to bluff your way out of it isn't working very well. — Hot Potato

Thanks for accusing without showing anything.

You win this debate, a hole.

Oh, and you are one ugly guy. That is undeniable so I win on that one, ugly.

Regards
DL

I object to both. — Valentinus

I don't care as I have seen too many softer and gentler posters try to soften their blows and they get shit on even more than I.

The the vile Christians recognize them as weak and try to kill them verbally.

Jesus had to run from people more than once and so would I if I was speaking in a public place to Christians.

But I am willing to learn. If you think you can teach.

How would you tell Christians, in your softer terms, that to idol worship a genocidal prick of a god is immoral and so is being a part of his homophobic and misogynist religion?

Regards
DL

Perhaps God, in his wisdom, realized that we are incapable of redeeming ourselves and so had to sacrifice his son for our sins. — TheMadFool

Which shows him to be an immoral coward who would bury his son instead of stepping up to do the right thing and die for his child.

There is no way to justify Yahweh as a good god.

Gnostic Christians pointed that our 2,000 years ago and Christians are still to immoral to reject that genocidal prick.

Fascist Christians love genocide.

Regards
DL

but a pantheon of interpretations of God. — Gus Lamarch

I agree. 3,000 gods and counting, while none admit that a genocidal god id a prick of a god.

Fascist like genocide..

Regards
DL

DrOlsnesLea — DrOlsnesLea

I would rather check my toast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_BCNio07gU

Regards
DL

You've got yourself lost in your own labyrinth of confusion. — Hot Potato

I can really defend myself against your gratuitous insult, especially when I have no more clue of what you are talking about than you do.

Get smarter and less gauche or shove your worthless insult back up where it came from.

Regards
DL

I'd change that last part a bit and say that faith, in itself, is for fools. — Daniel

You may. I don't think I will, only because I read somewhere that using the same first letter word in a sentence is supposed to give it flair. :-)

Yours is likely mare grammatically accurate.

Accuracy does not effect believers and I hope that flair does.

Regards
DL

Just to clarify I was referring to my interpretation of each religion as being "probably incorrect". — Outlander

I agree and the supernatural and faith based religions are likely more wrong and immoral than the religions that seek knowledge and wisdom instead of some invisible sky god.

Regards
DL

If a human being unreflectively and uncritically adheres to a set of beliefs aren't they, ipso facto, responsible? — Pantagruel

Yes.

We cannot blame individual 100% though, because their/our instincts push us to conform to the ways of our various tribes. Status quo and peer pressure also most share the blame.

Regards
DL

I do not know if gods exist. — Daniel

Good thinking.

No one does. many lie about it. Especially lying preachers.

We have evidence of nature. We have no evidence of a god.

Nothing should be believed on faith without facts. Faith without facts is for fools.

Regards
DL

To summarize, most or all of these are probably incorrect. — Outlander

+ 1

All supernatural or faith bases religions are garbage.

Regards
DL

freely choose Jesus Christ as their savior. — TheMadFool

Which is an immoral position of abdicating ones own responsibility for their sins. Right?

Regards
DL

Most do not choose their religions and just follow tradition and culture.

If that was not true, this kind of map would not exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY

Regards
DL

and the next generation turned that into a historical narrative. — Marchesk

Which helped usher in 1,000 years of Dark Ages.

Thanks Christianity. Not.

Regards
DL

It's not just you. The understanding of Christianity on philosophy forums tends to be pretty primitive. Almost all the focus goes to ideological assertions, while crucial topics like the experience of love are almost entirely ignored. — Nuke

Of course it is primitive. It was born as a pagan religion.

The rest of the world knows that to adore a genocidal god is immoral. Christians and Muslims have yet to progress away from their immoral thinking.

They ignore love, because they have a god of hate.

Regards
DL

The word 'Christianity' is already a misunderstanding - in reality there has been only one Christian, and he died on the Cross. — Gus Lamarch

That does not explain the fact that Christians are following an obviously immoral religion.

They know it and that is why they run from any moral discussions.

They are moral cowards and do not want to learn how to be brave.

Regards
DL

Hot Potato



↪Valentinus I agree.Boasting morality is a filthy business. — Hot Potato

Taking a high position is how one either gets knocked down by the opposition, or proves he is correct via debate and discussion.

Some mystics say that one should not be for or against any proposition, but to me, sitting on the fence just drives a fence post up the ass of the fence sitters.

Those who complain of my stance, just do so because they are not able to either knock me aside or refute my views. Losers are like that.

Regards
DL

I find it cruel to make children believe a load of lies. — Hot Potato

It is. The religious should stop lying to their children.

One does not lie to those we are supposed to love.

Regards
DL

Is it possible to live a good life and see reality as it is without daily silent meditation/reflection on yourself and the world? — musicpianoaccordion

It is, just not the best life according to all the sages and mystics I know.

It is more like being happy to be in Socrates' cave.

It is hard work to get enlightened or push ones apotheosis. It is well worth the price though.

As a Gnostic Christian, I used Jesus as my mantra to go within.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Here is what Jesus said to those who did not agree with him.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus is a myth, but the words put into his mouth were not all wasted.

Regards
DL

There is a certainty of self righteousness in your point of view — Valentinus

Correct. Morality is my forte and I proudly state my case and open myself to criticism.

I am not here to hide. If you do not like it, and think you have a better moral stance, share it.

Otherwise take your personal off topic criticisms and shove them back from where you got them..

Regards
DL

If someone grievously harms someone else and nobody stops it, does it become meaningless to say it was wrong? — Pfhorrest

No. It shows a decent moral sense. That does not take away from the fact that if we do not all protect each others rights, they become meaningless.

Regards
DL

Not much sense in what you say. I am a parent myself and I do not let my children believe in such nonsense — Hot Potato

You have never let your children celebrate Christmas!

I see that as cruel.

Regards
DL

We've misunderstood the good book — TheMadFool

Correct, by the literal reading of myths.

If god is all good, then genocide and infanticide, homophobia and misogyny, are all good.

Only the evil minded will see a good god come out of the bible.

Regards
DL