Genesis explains — frank

So you think Yahweh augmented the pain in child birth out of spite?

Do you have anything scientific to show that serpents had legs in the past?

They are also still supposed to be around but I have yet to chat with one. You?

Regards
DL

Adam and Even is just a metaphor in Christianity and not meant to be taken literally. — 3017amen

Yet the vast majority of Christians have to be literalists, to some extent, to believe their dogma and religion.

Regards
DL

↪Gnostic Christian Bishop How am I unable or unqualified to judge God based upon what we think God is through Scripture? Consider your argument:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
, and you asking whether that is true or whether

you let someone else do your judging for you.
. But another important part of the Bible in Matthew 4 says, Satan was tempting Jesus to throw himself down from a height and he replied, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." — Michael Lee

Michael. Who was there to report what Satan and Jesus said?

Let us use logos and not mythos.

Test all things is good moral advice regardless of who originally said it, which was not a bible character.

Correcting those who do not agree is the loving thing to do.

As to the myth. Satan did not have dominion to tempt Jesus with. Man had never given it up.
Either the temptation is a lie, or you have god giving Satan full control of the earth and man.

Do you see Yahweh/Jesus as that big of a jerk?

Regards
DL

Do you use logic? — TheMadFool

Seriously.

Regards
DL

Wouldn't this mean Jesus is your highest authority, if you are following him? — IvoryBlackBishop

Jesus showed a way to think. I have embraced it, but others have the same teachings. I use him as an example because most people I chat with can then have something to relate to.

Buddha as some Jews also put man above god, where we belong, given that we created all the gods, and I can find much n the bible to confirm what I say.

If you see only one Jesus in the scriptures, then I have taken his good advice and discarded his more immoral tenets.

Those I do apologetics against.

As an esoteric ecumenist, that is what we do. That is how we do not become idol worshipers of what we know and as perpetual seekers, I have raised even Jesus' bar of excellence and keep on seeking.

Seeking god the way Jesus said to do is good. Finding a god and idol worshiping him is evil.

Regards
DL

TheMadFool — TheMadFool

By basically living that way most of my life.

The clincher, when I chose to take the Gnostic Christian label after suffering my apotheosis.

I know I know. You think that to be fiction and I have nothing I can tell you or show you to have you believe such things even happen.

I have been abuse for my claim before and often so you need not add to it.

Most people associate that term with the supernatural but if your read a bit on Freud and Jung's Father Complex, you will perhaps think lie I do and see apotheosis as a natural thing.

Regards
DL

making valid points — Artemis

If you had such thing, I would acknowledge it.

Regards
DL

So you got nothing. :up: — Artemis

I got that you cannot follow a logic trail and cannot refute it.

Regards
DL

Per Sartre, even under torture, the victim determines the exact moment at which he chooses to submit to the torture.... — Pantagruel

I agree.

Regards
DL

I just want to say that Descartes may have approved of you since, in effect, he was sure of only one truth - his own indubitable existence. Surely then, you, just as he was of himself, must be your highest authority. — TheMadFool

As an esoteric ecumenist, I take out what I want and approve of in all thinking system's, even his, and discard the rest. If all he believed in was his existence, I would have discarded that notion.

We are alone, but we are all in this together.

I think he was indicating by his statemen that, as other great minds before him thought, that when looking at any issues, one should try to approach it without biases. Do not be for or against was how the ancients said it. That is really tough to do.

My thinking system is composed of many things from many sources. I am thus my own authority unless I wish to give it up to the many who formed my thinking system.

As keeper of my files, I am the only authority that I recognize.

Regards
DL

My main point stands uncontested. — Artemis

Not in your mind. It is in the more discerning ones.

Regards
DL

On a side note: since choosing death leaves you without cash too... I'm not sure what the "choice" in your example really revolves around. — Artemis

It was a hypothetical, goof.

Regards
DL

It is always best to bring issue to their largest and smallest as a proof of concept. That KISS.

You are a poor loser of this debate because you cannot refute the logic.

Come back when you finish sulking.

Regards
DL

That makes no sense. — Artemis

It does to me.

If I hold a gun to your head and threaten to shot you if you do not hand over your cash, whose choice is being exercised when you hand it over? Whose brain makes your hand move?

Mine or yours?

Yours.

It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move.

Regards
DL

If you're being manipulated, lied to, hypnotized, drugged, etc. YOU are not making any choices on your own. — Artemis

It is still your choice, although it is being intentionally impaired.

It is not the others choice, it is only his suggestion, fortified by the products you mention.

Regards
DL

I'm suggesting that in circumstances when someone else is causing your behavior and or manipulating you, then you cannot be considered the highest authority in that moment. — Artemis

Sure you can if you are making the choice, wrong or not, to accept and make your own whatever is being sold to you.

Doing the best we can with what we have at all points in time does not mean that we won't get screwed by a good con man, be he religious or political or just a charlatan doctor.

Regards
DL

That kinda puts a wrench in the whole "being the highest judge and authority" bit. — Artemis

Are you suggesting that a highest judge and authority cannot make a mistake?

Have we ever had a perfect ideology or leader to follow?

You might want to check our history before positing such an idea.

Regards
DL

Pantagruel — Pantagruel

Nicely put. I think I agree.

The scope and scale of our abilities ultimately depends on our embracing and adopting external systems, which are rule-governed. — Pantagruel

Yes, but we can oppose and our freedom to change poor rules and have all profit.

Regards
DL

I suspect every sheeple would say the same. — Arne

Not by the definition of the term.

If it was so, they would reject the genocidal god.

Regards
DL

Right. — TheMadFool

You make my case.

Regards
DL

I don't have anything against confidence borne of true knowledge but given that we all have blind spots I suggest you take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect — TheMadFool

I just put this up that answers this notion of error or being duped nicely. I hope.

FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

Regards
DL

Do you have some reason to believe that this renders you unusual in some significant way? — Arne

Not unusual that I know of. It just says that I am not as gullible as some and do not make a good sheeple.

I find sheeple unusual as they seem to intentionally put their tribal affiliations ahead of their morals. I do not. I see my duty as to make my tribe better.

In the supernaturally based religions, I think they voluntarily go into intellectual and moral dissonance and that is why the mainstream gods are such genocidal pricks, that they somehow see as good.

That is unusual, dishonest and stupid.

Regards
DL

Ah. That explains a lot. — Banno

It explains a lot more if you are not up to it. Child.

Regards
DL

So what if you're being hypnotized, drugged, manipulated, or in some other way duped? — Artemis

So what if any of us are? We are duped and hope we learned our lesson.

FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

Regards
DL

tim wood — tim wood

Stop looking in the mirror.

Regards
DL

Who is this "I" person and what makes them so trustworthy? — Artemis

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

If you want to use biblical references, then use them. If not, then don't use them. Which is it? — tim wood

??

That was your quote, goof.

If you cannot dither out that "every kind" means "every kind", which is equivalent to the "all things", that I used, go back to school.

Regards
DL

I think. — Pantagruel

Perfect.

Let us pray that sheeple get into that.

Regards
DL

Context and understanding. Context and understanding. Context and understanding. — tim wood

Indeed. Without the stuttering.

What don't you understand about---

22 reject every kind of evil. — tim wood

-------

-- not meaning just prophesies and being expanded to everything?

Regards
DL

So who is your highest authority, you or Jesus? — Arne

As I said, I follow his ways or his guidance and have chosen to be my own highest authority.

Regards
DL

You cited a higher authority to support your claim that you are your own highest authority. — Arne

I am happy to look at that if you would quote it. I would have to see how I wrote it and am not sure what statement you are talking about.

If I do consider someone a higher authority than myself on an issue, I am duty bound to accept such information, work it into my ideology, and move on from this new position and knowledge. I do not cut off seeking an even better opinion or fact.

Being my own authority does not mean never changing my mind on an issue.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seeker as we do not want to end as idol worshipers and entrenched in a stagnant and never improving ideology. We perpetually raise the bar of expectation.

We are always climbing Jacob's ladder and do not want to think we are at the end of learning.

We evolve and so should our thinking.

Regards
DL

And please do not confuse final authority with highest authority — Arne

So you might not give final authority to the best authority. Ok. Not the brightest choice, but Ok.

If I have medical issues, I am going to find a doctor worthy of being the "higher authority" on the issues. — Arne

Yes, after you judge and embrace his authority as the best. That is making yourself the final authority.

Regards
DL

Resting a claim to be one's own "highest authority" upon the authority of Thessalonians 5:21 is nonsensical. — Arne

Really. What do you follow that has you putting the highest authority in another, without you absorbing and embracing the ideology and making it your own?

Regards
DL

depends on the issue. — Arne

You have more than one process when judging?

Show the different processes please.

Regards
DL

It is either that your using God to help you judge, or by your Gnostic Christian religion, you are not someone who fits that description. God is a higher authority? No? Or you think you're equal to God. To which I'd say good, but messy. — Qwex

I am an esoteric ecumenist and I use the help of all I know to judge. So do you. No?

If god wants to be my authority he has to show up and earn that privilege.

Regards
DL

Coben — Coben

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

But those people are not going to listen anyway. — Coben

Thanks for your insight in both posts.

This, your statement, is mostly correct but as the adage goes, for evil to grow all good people need do is nothing. I am trying to be good and even if my interlocutor is brain dead, my hope is that lurkers will get it.

I get more converts, so to speak, from the lurkers than the, usually obtuse and belligerent poster.

Regards
DL

Me I have no idea what an all powerful being would enjoy. — Coben

Neither do but scriptures say god never changes. He, if ignorant of pain, could not gain that knowledge as it would belie the WORD of god.

Regards
DL

since Adam & Eve were also humans who lacked it.

Perhaps it could be rationaled by assuming the Original Sin gene is on the Y chromosome. Jesus didn't get his Y chromosome from a biological human. — Relativist

Your first is correct as they are charged, Adam alone really, with doing the first/Original Sin.

Thanks for checking that Mary thing. My memory worked well this time.

You make a good point in seeing our genes as responsible for the sins and evil within us.

All human to human evil is generated by our instincts and if we did not follow those, we would go extinct.

Regards
DL

why are Christians so strict about the name Jesus? — Qwex

I don't know. They sure are not strict about following his tenets.
Mind you, given that so many of his tents are immoral, that could be a good thing.

The name "Jesus" is used quite liberally in some countries.

Regards
DL