The bible or the babble? — Shamshir

More like babble these days.

Regards
DL

loss and humiliation is the path to knowledge. — Possibility

I do not feel humiliated when I learn something new.
That gift is one of the greatest pleasures in life.

Even here. I argue hard to win while hoping to lose and thus actually gain something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTN9Nx8VYtk&feature=youtu.be

Regards
DL

And again, take a chill pill it might do you some good! — 3017amen

Political correctness empowers those religious who abuse the majority of the population.

I prefer to call a spade a spade instead of being the hypocrite you want me to be.

You go ahead and lie to evil people if you like. I will continue to speak my mind.

Regards
DL

So it's reverse inspiration!!! — 3017amen

Indeed.This Gnostic Christians says ----

I keep a bible in the house even though I think this quote quite correct.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Then again, I am a Gnostic Christian and know how to read the filth in it.

Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices.

“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though.

You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil.

I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice.

Which group do you think is right?

Regards
DL

men who desire to spill the blood of a woman for "insulting" their male central figure idol. — A Gnostic Agnostic

I think this refers more to faith than belief as faith has no facts whereas I define belief as based on facts.

Other than that glitch, I think we are close in thinking.

Regards
DL

I take gnostic as 'knowing' thus 'a gnostic agnostic' means "what I know, I know, what I do not know, I do not know" and for me the rest is "belief" which has no virtue in it at all. — A Gnostic Agnostic

Hmm.

Gnostic is the root word of agnostic so I just read gnostic agnostic as basically two words that mean the same thing. Agnostic is the starting point that leads to Gnosis IMO.

Agnostics will seek god till/when they find god and when they do, they will then graduate their label to Gnostic. We remain perpetual seekers but are on Jacobs ladder where the term agnostic does not really fit as we have decided to seek god. God defined as the best rules and laws we can follow to live a good life with.

God is not important. Only his teaching are. Give this a quick listen. It is enlightening IMO.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Belief based on facts has merit. No?

"Believers" persecute "unbelievers" for not "believing" things that are not true. This is fascism — A Gnostic Agnostic

It is well known that Christianity and Islam are fascists given their inquisitions and jihads.

Regards
DL

Yo dude calm down man! — 3017amen

Nice answer to my questions.

You calm down while women and gays, half the G D planet, is being abused by the god you think is good.

Take your self-centred ways and shove them where I shove your advice and where you have shoved the Golden Rule.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Regards
DL

GCB: In many ways I agree with the Gnostic viewpoint. What I don’t agree with is your attitude toward those who don’t agree. In my view, ignorance isn’t solved by vitriol, but by compassion. — Possibility

Try that and let me know when and where you succeed in changing a recalcitrant and obtuse religious mind. I have asked this of many like you and am still waiting to see a result.

I have seen too many nice guys get shit on more than I do.

Regards
DL

No, but we’re not talking about denying this. Hypothetically, it would have been a significantly easier education if we weren’t so afraid. — Possibility

??

Biblical stories are about all of us.

Were you afraid when you went to school? Of what?

Regards
DL

But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either. Overall the good outweighs the bad. The Bible is an awesome book... ! — 3017amen

I agree with your last.

Not the rest.

What goodness do you see in Yahweh that overshadows his genocidal and infanticidal ways?

Can Hitler be said to have a good side that would exonerate his evil genocidal side?

Can God, when he says that the vast majority of us will end in hell and death?

Would a good god kill or cure corrupted souls?

No free will arguments as they do not apply please.

Regards
DL

The reason they go hard on Islam in this matter is that homosexuality is punishable by death in countries with Islamic law, and women are basically treated like chattel. Christianity is far more advanced in this respect. A friend of mine, a lesbian, got married by a Christian minister last year. — NOS4A2

I went to such a wedding myself. Outside and not in the church. I give the preacher some points but not for teaching his flock that they are being immoral in their discrimination against gays.

Things are getting better but slowly thanks to Christian intransigence.
As to Christians v/s Muslin ways that lead to death. I do not see much of a difference.
Let me know if you do.

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Regards
DL

There's nothing wrong with selective readings of holy texts.

I don't know how many Christians are not homophobic or misogynist, but I've met plenty who don't seem that way to me. — bert1

I agree with your first and also with the fact that the left of Christianity has progressed to recognizing they should not be like the right wing.

I speak more against the right wing here but all Christians who do not rip the homophobic and misogynous text out of their bible are contributing to the problem.

Regards
DL

Let me know when you read it. — Christopher

I am letting you know.

You are correct on subjective gaging of the pain, but the moment a person says he has a pain, it is a objective statement.

If you say you have a pain, we all know what you are inferring within all of our subjective views, as you say.

Regards
DL

if we are to take a critical stance towards religious beliefs, why not all beliefs? — Tzeentch

This.

Regards
DL

Calling yourself "Gnostic Agnositc" gave me the impression that you come from Christianity. — T Clark

If so, I would imagine our friend would label himself a Gnostic Christian.

Remember that one can be Gnostic to any religion. There are even Gnostic Muslims.

Gnostic, more or less, just says that one is a free thinker and esoteric ecumenist and likely a naturalist.

Regards
DL

This is too general. Christianity is not homogenous enough to say it is homophobic and misogynistic. — bert1

What denominations of the, what, 3,000 or so Christian sects, have taken their homophobic and misogynous writings out of the bible they use?

What small % of Christianity is not homophobic and misogynous in your estimation?

Regards
DL

This is an immoral position to hold. Guilt is personal, so only something personally done can wash it away. Forget placing it all on someone innocent — Gregory

Have you ever tried to talk morals to Christians?

They always run for the hills as they cannot justify their genocidal god, let alone his vile and immoral ways.

Regards
DL

Through divine grace. This is Christianity. — frank

True, while Christians ignore the fact that their free will is being manipulated and denied by a god whose scriptures say decides in all of us who will believe or have faith or not by god's hardening of our hearts, or not, with his grace.

That is how stupid and immoral the Christian ideology is. A vile slave making, homophobic and misogynous ideology.

Regards
DL

So it seems we can know that classical theism is false — Gregory

If by classical you mean the mainstream garbage religions we now suffer, I agree.

That is caused by the literal reading of myths.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

Whenever he applies his power, which is identical to his goodness — Gregory

Goodness??

Do you see a lot of good in Yahweh and others who would use genocide and kill when they could just as easily do what Jesus said he came to do, --- which was cure and not kill?

Show the goodness in genocide or a god who would use it please.

Regards
DL

The fact remains, for there to be a God he would have to have the power to forgive sin. — Gregory

That is an assumption to a power that we all have.

In fact, as victims to sin, we have the first right of forgiveness and not some god who cannot possibly be hurt by us puny humans.

You seem to have put restrictions on god by saying he would have to have some power.

How do you happen to know what a supernatural being can have and cannot have?

7th hand hear say or a book of myths?

Regards
DL

Yep, it appears GCBishop has an axe to grind for some reason(?). — 3017amen

Yep. I proudly accept your correct view.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

I hope I'm wrong but I think he takes the Christian Bible too literally and considers it infallible. — 3017amen

The bible is a book of myths and that is how Gnostic Christians have always looked at it.

Our irreverent use of the term demiurge shows this.

It's sad because he gives Gnosticism a bad name. — 3017amen

I fight evil as a part of my religion. If you think that gives us a bad name, you have not compared us to Christians who used inquisitions and murder to sell Christianity as they had no sound moral tenets to grow Christianity with.

Religions are on the wane and I think I spend my time best by fighting evil than trying to push my better ideology.

Secular law already has a better ideology than most religions, (not mine IMO,) and secular law shows us the good while I show the evils within the mainstream homophobic and misogynous genocidal god worshiping garbage religions.

When my interlocutors recognize the immorality of their religions, that is when I bring out my Gnostic Christian ideology.

I have to get fools to stop idol worshiping their garbage gods before they might be open to a moral one.

Regards
DL

Is "belief" a virtue? — A Gnostic Agnostic

I voted yes because of how I define belief as compared to faith.

Faith is more or less a hope, not a belief without evidence or proofs.

One believes something based on something. If the belief is based on faith it becomes garbage.
If one believes based on observed evidence, then I see no problem with that.

That switches the conversation to what is being observed, as compared to what is just assumed by faith without facts.

Facts lead to belief, not faith.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the believers mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

‘Knowing that’ without ‘knowing how’ has contributed to much of the fear, hatred, oppression and destruction that humans have unleashed on the world... — Possibility

Sure.

Let me ask again.

Would you think they were their best when as bright as bricks?

Would you deny your children the tree of all knowledge and an education?

Regards
DL

mythology puts 'reason' on a pedestal. — fresco

Mythology does the opposite.

Logos, not mythos, puts logic and reason above the faith of fools.

Regards
DL

So why not just present their arguments rather than quote from texts as if the text - rather than reason - has authority in these matters? — Bartricks

As in the brighter days of religions, we tend to give authority to the people of the book.

Intelligently so when studying Judaism and Christianity, unfortunately, the book and it's ideas have been corrupted by Christian liars and the manipulation of the text, which is a myth that stupid people read literally and as history.

The bible was written as a book of wisdom, but literal reading screwed up the wisdom.

Regards
DL

You assume he fears to, what if he is merely uninterested in you — New2K2

If so, then reciprocity should be applied and we should ignore [him] as well.

[edited by moderator]

do you mean individually. — New2K2

In any way.

Very boring huh. — New2K2

I cannot speak for an imaginary supernatural entity. Like everyone else, I have no access to some supernatural realm. [delted].

does your pet fully understand and anticipate you? — New2K2

Yes. Close enough.

telepathy with a familiar cat but that cat doesn't understand half of what goes through your mind and probably doesn't care. — New2K2

They can understand enough to know if they should be upset or not with our thoughts.

Now, if you can ignore ego and pride for a moment, imagine you are the cat and God is the human. — New2K2

Ok. I see god as [deleted] genocidal [deleted] as he murdered all of the cats and dogs, except for two of each of course.

[deleted]}.

Regards
DL

Nietzsche was obviously wrong.

I perceive pain and it is not my drives, desires or passions that create it.

It is my nervous system.

death and damnation — Christopher

I talk Christianity while you talk Egyptian.

Let me know when you want to chat on the same issue.

Regards
DL

Such is the faith of babble. — Shamshir

The tree of life is above your petty concerns.

Thanks for showing the babble in your mind and poor thinking ability.

Regards
DL

the objective reality of human consciousness. — Christopher

If in a consciousness or a mind, reality is always subjective.

Regards
DL

Yes, destroyed and tormented. Yet still in existence. In some variations, the soul is reborn in the process. — Christopher

Get the quote that shows this lie and denies the second eath is the final one.

Regards
DL

Send me a pm when you can be polite. — uncanni

I am quite polite but do not tolerate fools well.

You have little if anything to teach me so your absence is welcomed.

Regards
DL

If we were meant to be naked, — PoeticUniverse

If we were meant to have our foreskins cut ------

Regards
DL

Scuse me, but the Torah is Jewish, much older than xtianity. — uncanni

I did not date them.

Again you show a poor comprehension problem.

I actually don't care about how the modern religions copied, plagiarized the older Sumerian and Egyptian religions.

We have exceeded the knowledge of the ancients. Note how secular law is the law of the land and that few religionists are advocating for their god's vile and immoral laws.

Regards
DL

Look at what you wrote to me: If..., then... That leaves me with no response. — uncanni

Yes it does.

Respond by reading the story as written and see god murdering A & E intentionally.

If you cannot judge Eden and gods actions, then you can't judge anything.

If and then statements, is a great way to make a direct point. That is why they use it in computer code.

Your reading comprehension is poor.

Have you denied your children what they need to survive?

God did.

Regards
DL

I'd say that the Torah is the start of ethics. — uncanni

Pfft.

Read the book of the dead and know that other ideologies provide better sets of morals and ethics than Christianity and their genocidal and infanticidal garbage god.

Regards
DL

Yes, according to their beliefs, the soul is immortal. — Christopher

It can be, but it can also be destroyed and that kills the notion of the immortality of souls.

Read the lake of fire myth as that is where our souls are destroyed.

Regards
DL

Is it true or not that the Bible claims that human beings have immortal souls? — Daniel C

I believe so as it talk of immortal beings.

I see that as a lie as it speaks of a supernatural realm that no one can access.

All that happens in scriptures are what is to happen in our own minds and when we Gnostic Christians use such terms as never die, we mean mentally on issues after Gnosis has been reached and we have suffered our apotheosis.

It is our thinking and worthy arguments that never die. Not our physical and spiritual sides.

As you can see, we have no supernatural beliefs and think that they are for children.

Regards
DL

Now that's almost fascist in its authoritarianism. You are beginning to scare me. — uncanni

Likely because you misuse words and might be afraid of concepts.

Christianity is an example of fascism. Not anything I put.

Regards
DL