I'd say that the Torah is the start of ethics. — uncanni

Pfft.

Read the book of the dead and know that other ideologies provide better sets of morals and ethics than Christianity and their genocidal and infanticidal garbage god.

Regards
DL

If you cannot recognize that god murdered A & E by neglect by insuring they would not eat of the tree of life, then you are not reading the story right. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Look at what you wrote to me: If..., then... That leaves me with no response. And when someone tells me I'm not reading correctly, it conjures up images of 1984 type fascism, as if there is only one right way to read. That's totalitarian thinking in a nutshell. It shuts everyone else down. Homey don't play that game.

All I can do is say thank you: you've made my day. You are a generous individual!!

Scuse me, but the Torah is Jewish, much older than xtianity.

If we were meant to be naked, 'God' would have made us that way, um, which supposedly He did, but now, with our fig clothes, we don't get used to nakedness, and then come to see it as bland, but can ever wonder what's underneath, getting attracted by the jiggles and shape.

I seems that Mother Nature went way overboard to insure offspring, but I'll take it. And to think that even in the early 1900s swimsuits had to cover everything. Men also went nutty over petticoats then and earlier.

Look at what you wrote to me: If..., then... That leaves me with no response. — uncanni

Yes it does.

Respond by reading the story as written and see god murdering A & E intentionally.

If you cannot judge Eden and gods actions, then you can't judge anything.

If and then statements, is a great way to make a direct point. That is why they use it in computer code.

Your reading comprehension is poor.

Have you denied your children what they need to survive?

God did.

Regards
DL

I have stopped reading you because you are repressive, not really interested in an exchange of ideas. So write away, but I won't read your responses unless you can be polite. Send me a pm when you can be polite.

Scuse me, but the Torah is Jewish, much older than xtianity. — uncanni

I did not date them.

Again you show a poor comprehension problem.

I actually don't care about how the modern religions copied, plagiarized the older Sumerian and Egyptian religions.

We have exceeded the knowledge of the ancients. Note how secular law is the law of the land and that few religionists are advocating for their god's vile and immoral laws.

Regards
DL

If we were meant to be naked, — PoeticUniverse

If we were meant to have our foreskins cut ------

Regards
DL

Send me a pm when you can be polite. — uncanni

I am quite polite but do not tolerate fools well.

You have little if anything to teach me so your absence is welcomed.

Regards
DL

Have you denied your children what they need to survive?

God did. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Not food, nor water, nor air - yet surely, reason he has denied you.

Such is the faith of babble.

Such is the faith of babble. — Shamshir

The tree of life is above your petty concerns.

Thanks for showing the babble in your mind and poor thinking ability.

Regards
DL

I don't think you'd use fig leaves in battle. — uncanni

That is the point! In their nascent knowledge they are inept. They cannot adequately protect themselves. They know that there is a need but do not yet know how to meet that need.

Although the term 'ethics' is anachronistic
— Fooloso4
I'd say that the Torah is the start of ethics. — uncanni

'Ethics' is a Greek concept, foreign to the story. With the death of the gods, the philosophers decided questions of ethics based on reasoned thought. In Jewish thought there are commandments and God stands as the final authority.

High marks to you my friend!! I could not agree more with your analysis! — 3017amen

Bullseye on the etiological myths. — Brainglitch

Thanks :up:

So you think that man's higherst form is to be too stupid to even know we was naked and having his moral sense as bling, as scriptures state was the state of A & E.

Would you deny your children the tree of all knowledge and an education?

Would you think they were their best when as bright as bricks? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

There is ‘knowledge that’ as awareness: an initial physical/mental capacity to integrate complex, multi-dimensional information.

And there is ‘knowledge how’ as experience: education and information acquired through diverse interaction with the world over time.

Understand the difference as it applies to A&E, and leave ‘God’ out of it for just a sec.

‘Knowing that’ we are naked has done us no favours. ‘Knowing how’ nakedness (awareness of vulnerability) affects the way one interacts with the world, both positively and negatively, needed to be acquired with experience by observing the world over time - and has long been hampered by the fears we acquired from being painfully ‘aware’ of our own nakedness.

‘Knowing that’ without ‘knowing how’ has contributed to much of the fear, hatred, oppression and destruction that humans have unleashed on the world...

That's nice! It makes me think of the differences between lower life-forms and higher degrees of consciousness. Meaning lower life-forms work mostly from instinct. Where higher life-forms (self-aware Beings) are born with more of a blank slate. Like the brain of a computer where data is entered/received to make the software work. — 3017amen

Not a blank slate - rather a more complex information processing system. That we are still prone to act on instinct should be obvious. The brain of a computer describes where we perhaps might have been had we not evolved from animals - had A&E not followed the serpent’s advice. Without awareness of the self participating in the world one is learning about, the amount of information one can process is hampered only by storage capacity and time. There is no fear of harm, no need to protect oneself or pretend to be less vulnerable...

But there is also no agency, no creative capacity, no genuine participation in the world. The brain of a computer can learn about the world while it follows instruction.

Nature v. Nurture:

Are all brain functions computational, i.e. can they all be boiled down to the ‘input-processing-output’ equation which in theory can be replicated in the physical world, however complex the ‘processing’ aspect of it. Or are there parts of a human brain’s roles (like consciousness, free will, memory classification etc.) that are just not ‘programmable’?

In an overly simplistic way I always felt that the small archaic limbic system at the base of the brain was where human sentience is located, and that everything else is programmable/ blank slate....

‘Knowing that’ without ‘knowing how’ has contributed to much of the fear, hatred, oppression and destruction that humans have unleashed on the world... — Possibility

Sure.

Let me ask again.

Would you think they were their best when as bright as bricks?

Would you deny your children the tree of all knowledge and an education?

Regards
DL

scripted applause
Good luck censer.

Yep, it appears GCBishop has an axe to grind for some reason(?).

I hope I'm wrong but I think he takes the Christian Bible too literally and considers it infallible.

It's sad because he gives Gnosticism a bad name. Gnosticism provides a nice balance to Spirituality that was unfortunately left out of the Bible due to' church politics'... .

It begs the question, is he a politician of some sort?

I hope I'm wrong but I think he takes the Christian Bible too literally and considers it infallible. — 3017amen

The bible is a book of myths and that is how Gnostic Christians have always looked at it.

Our irreverent use of the term demiurge shows this.

It's sad because he gives Gnosticism a bad name. — 3017amen

I fight evil as a part of my religion. If you think that gives us a bad name, you have not compared us to Christians who used inquisitions and murder to sell Christianity as they had no sound moral tenets to grow Christianity with.

Religions are on the wane and I think I spend my time best by fighting evil than trying to push my better ideology.

Secular law already has a better ideology than most religions, (not mine IMO,) and secular law shows us the good while I show the evils within the mainstream homophobic and misogynous genocidal god worshiping garbage religions.

When my interlocutors recognize the immorality of their religions, that is when I bring out my Gnostic Christian ideology.

I have to get fools to stop idol worshiping their garbage gods before they might be open to a moral one.

Regards
DL

Yep, it appears GCBishop has an axe to grind for some reason(?). — 3017amen

Yep. I proudly accept your correct view.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

I'll have to study some of your links... .

In the meantime one thing I will agree with you on is I always felt religion gives Christianity a bad name. If Christians would focus more on what Jesus stood for and not take some of the other parts of recorded history so literally it would go a long way in updating/ improving the false and/or inconsistent paradigm's. Yes picking and choosing is okay because we are smarter now... .

Being a Christian Existentialist as you know I don't take all of the Bible literally and don't believe it's an infallible text. And apostle Paul was just a preacher and not a perfect being. But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either. Overall the good outweighs the bad. The Bible is an awesome book... !

Would you deny your children the tree of all knowledge and an education? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

No, but we’re not talking about denying this. Hypothetically, it would have been a significantly easier education if we weren’t so afraid.

Would you think they were their best when as bright as bricks? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

No, but hypothetically I would have thought they missed an opportunity for a more efficient education here.

I will reiterate that I don’t believe Eden ever existed. It represents a ‘perfect’ situation the authors wished they could have been in, not where they believe they once were. The problem is that Jewish and then Christian doctrine pushed for a more literal interpretation to support ulterior motives, bringing in this concept of ‘original sin’ that I don’t believe exists in this text at all.

GCB: In many ways I agree with the Gnostic viewpoint. What I don’t agree with is your attitude toward those who don’t agree. In my view, ignorance isn’t solved by vitriol, but by compassion.

It's sad because he gives Gnosticism a bad name. — 3017amen

A bad name? What name? No name.
Would you label if you knew the name?
You would, lest you took the meat from the freezer and mistook lamb for lamprey.

Remember: Medicine is often bitter. Despite the omission, it heals and prevents it.
Good luck mushroom picking - care with doses.

My meat is your meat
Your meat is mine
Hunting out of season makes
Taking them a crime

Where is poetic universe when you need him!!?!!

But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either. Overall the good outweighs the bad. The Bible is an awesome book... ! — 3017amen

I agree with your last.

Not the rest.

What goodness do you see in Yahweh that overshadows his genocidal and infanticidal ways?

Can Hitler be said to have a good side that would exonerate his evil genocidal side?

Can God, when he says that the vast majority of us will end in hell and death?

Would a good god kill or cure corrupted souls?

No free will arguments as they do not apply please.

Regards
DL

No, but we’re not talking about denying this. Hypothetically, it would have been a significantly easier education if we weren’t so afraid. — Possibility

??

Biblical stories are about all of us.

Were you afraid when you went to school? Of what?

Regards
DL

Yo dude calm down man!

You're taking the Bible too literally. If you don't think it makes sense to you don't believe in it.

But again don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Think about it this way; all the translations, all interpretations, all the metaphors and allegories, books left out of different religions IE Baptist v Catholicism as well as the Lost Gospels from Gnosticism, all ought to tell you something.

Give it a rest dude!

GCB: In many ways I agree with the Gnostic viewpoint. What I don’t agree with is your attitude toward those who don’t agree. In my view, ignorance isn’t solved by vitriol, but by compassion. — Possibility

Try that and let me know when and where you succeed in changing a recalcitrant and obtuse religious mind. I have asked this of many like you and am still waiting to see a result.

I have seen too many nice guys get shit on more than I do.

Regards
DL