The moral case is clear, "we are all people" and those lives are all equal. That's why the just war tradition sets out to find objective criteria and random squiggly lines on a map ain't it. — Benkei

The "We are all people" concept does need to be accepted by both parties in a conflict if it is to be acted upon. If only one side plays by those rules, they will be the ones to suffer because the other party will use it to their own advantage. — Sir2u

To any sane person homicide is :sad:.

But as a last resort, it might be rightfully be labeled a tragedy. — Tzeentch

:ok: — Tzeentch

red lines — Tzeentch

Combined with the swift deteroriation of democratic principles in almost every Western democracy and we'll have a nice fascist alliance in a few decades. — Benkei

ridiculous — Benkei

over 2/3rds of Ukrainians were against NATO — boethius

1991              · Ukraine-NATO relations start
1993-6            · Ukraine given some security commitments by Russia, UK, US
1997              · Ukraine joins Planning and Review Process (NATO)
1998              · NATO-Ukraine Commission
20100118-0207     · Yanukovych wins election
20131121-20140222 · Euromaidan
20140218-23       · Dignity Revolution
20140318          · Russia annexes Crimea
20140329          · Kyiv: Ukraine is neutral, non-aligned
201405--          · Roughly all polls switch from neutral to NATO
20140525-26       · Poroshenko wins election (CyberBerkut interference)
20190401-19       · Zelenskyy wins election
20220224          · Russia invades Ukraine
20220308          · Kyiv: Ukraine not insisting on NATO membership
20220930          · Ukraine applies for NATO membership
20230404          · Finland joins NATO
20240307          · Sweden joins NATO

whereas Ukraine is pervasively corrupt — boethius

join ranks of the top four global economies by the purchasing power parity

agro-industrial production volume should grow by 25%

The study employed a variation of the Turing test where participants were unaware of the AI’s involvement, focusing instead on the quality of the responses.

Remarkably, they rated the AI’s moral reasoning as superior in quality to humans’ along almost all dimensions, including virtuousness, intelligence, and trustworthiness, consistent with passing what Allen and colleagues call the comparative MTT. — Amanda Head · Neuroscience News · May 6, 2024

Circumstantial evidence is evidence, as far as I'm concerned. It's not my fault you are unable to infer beyond the facts, and when you do, it's invariably in defence against anything that might dispute your narrative. — NOS4A2

Congress threatens ICC over Israeli arrest warrants — Tzeentch

disgraceful [...] lawless [...]
If unchallenged by the Biden administration, the ICC could create and assume unprecedented power to issue arrest warrants against American political leaders, American diplomats, and American military personnel.
[...] immediately and unequivocally demand that the ICC stand down [...] use every available tool to prevent such an abomination — Johnson

think of whether we stay a signatory [...]
We have to think about talking to some of the countries that have ratified [the treaty] as to whether they want to support the organization. [...]
I know Congress will ensure consequences for such an absurd decision. — Sherman

strong consequences from both Congress and the President — Torres

concerns about the prosecution of the war [...] it's always a good idea to get the facts before making a judgment — Kildee

Why don't we see what happens, and then we can evaluate based on whatever comes out. — McGovern

The ICC is an independent body, and it needs to proceed with what they need to do. — Jayapal

it's not a matter for Congress to be telling them what to be doing — Pocan

After this Palestine thing dies off (like Ukraine did, that thread is very dead) — Lionino

These incidents are part of an intensifying campaign of activities which Russia continues to carry out across the Euro-Atlantic area, including on Alliance territory and through proxies. This includes sabotage, acts of violence, cyber and electronic interference, disinformation campaigns, and other hybrid operations. NATO Allies express their deep concern over Russia's hybrid actions, which constitute a threat to Allied security.

moral cretins — 180 Proof

Always love to hear it from the explicitly irreligious. :heart: — BitconnectCarlos

I guess republicans are fascists. — Lionino

Resolution 1 – DO PASS – Resolution Supporting our Republic vs. Democracy

WHEREAS a republic and a democracy are two distinct forms of government; and

WHEREAS the United States Constitution, Article IV, Section 4 guarantees to every
state "a republican form of government" and we pledge allegiance to our country's flag
“and to the Republic for which it stands;” and

WHEREAS John Adams stated "Democracy...while it lasts is more bloody than either
aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes,
exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide;”
and

WHEREAS the Republican Party is the party of limited, Constitutional government, and
the Democratic Party promotes progressivism and socialism; and

WHEREAS every time the word "democracy" is used favorably it serves to promote the
principles of the Democratic Party, the principles of which we ardently oppose;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Washington State Republican Party, in
convention assembled, acknowledges that our nation is intended to be a republic, not a
democracy; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we encourage Republicans to substitute the words
"republic" and "republicanism" where previously they have used the word "democracy;"
and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we support legislation that preserves the republican
nature of our government institutions and oppose legislation which makes our nation
more "democratic" in nature, and that, while we favor and encourage liberty in all
nations, we oppose all efforts to use American military might to spread "democracy"
around the world. — 2024 WSRP Resolutions Page 2 of 15

my fear today is, however, that MAGA terrorists will try to make the US ungovernable (therefore, acutely vulnerable to national security threats from Russia, China and/or the Middle East) in the weeks and months following, if not before, the ROEvember election — 180 Proof

The Clown supporters I've chit-chatted with don't think about or care that their efforts add to efforts beyond their neighborhood against them — Mar 12, 2024

↪jorndoe Clickbait article :yawn: — Lionino

If NATO countries send their troops into Ukraine in order to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia, then the very moment about which Putin once said, ‘Why do we need the world, if there is no Russia in it?’ would come. Then everything [all types of missile] would be launched by us, in every direction - Sarmats, Yars, and Avangards. — Kiselyov

Anarchists — Metaphysician Undercover

• 1. The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for this Protocol in all circumstances.
• 2. In cases not covered by this Protocol or by other international agreements, civilians and combatants remain under the protection and authority of the principles of international law derived from established custom, from the principles of humanity and from the dictates of public conscience.
• 3. This Protocol, which supplements the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 for the protection of war victims, shall apply in the situations referred to in Article 2 common to those Conventions.
• 4. The situations referred to in the preceding paragraph include armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination and alien occupation and against racist régimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

• 1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.
• 2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
• 3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used.

• 1. In the conduct of military operations, constant care shall be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects.
• 2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:
  
  • (a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:
    
    • (i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;
    • (ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;
    • (iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
  • (b) an attack shall be cancelled or suspended if it becomes apparent that the objective is not a military one or is subject to special protection or that the attack may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
  • (c) effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit.
• 3. When a choice is possible between several military objectives for obtaining a similar military advantage, the objective to be selected shall be that the attack on which may be expected to cause the least danger to civilian lives and to civilian objects.
• 4. In the conduct of military operations at sea or in the air, each Party to the conflict shall, in conformity with its rights and duties under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, take all reasonable precautions to avoid losses of civilian lives and damage to civilian objects.
• 5. No provision of this Article may be construed as authorizing any attacks against the civilian population, civilians or civilian objects.

Certainly this – what you describe here – is mind-independent, no? — 180 Proof

• if you're referring to something extra-self, then show us something
  ^{(existentially mind-independent, objective, applicable to us all)}
• if you're referring to something you have on your mind, then tell us about it
  ^{(often enough existentially mind-dependent, subjective)}
• if extra-self, then explain your interaction therewith
  ^{(that others may differentiate you and the claimed)}

A peace may be so wretched as not to be ill exchanged for war. — Tacitus (56 — 120)

The Chancellor spoke in Berlin on the 300th birthday of the philosopher Immanuel Kant. Olaf Scholz tried to counter the appropriation of Kant by Vladimir Putin.