• Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Depraved clown. What does that make his voters?

    Trump tells rally immigrants are ‘poisoning the blood of our country’
    — Chris Michael · The Guardian · Dec 16, 2023

    At least someone has a spine and calls him out.

    Trump’s rhetoric in final campaign sprint goes to new dark extremes
    — Zachary B Wolf, Ariel Edwards-Levy · CNN · Dec 18, 2023
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Ukrainians may have a not-so-merry Christmas this year:

    Analysis: Ukraine has had a terrible week. Blame the US and the EU
    — Nick Paton Walsh · CNN · Dec 17, 2023

    Some got caught up in traffic jam:

    Third Ukrainian truck driver dies in Poland border blockades-TV
    — Ron Popeski, Alistair Bell · Reuters · Dec 16, 2023

    Cold war at least, well err + some hot spots:

    In Russia, All Policy Roads Lead to the War
    — Alexander Gabuev · WSJ · Dec 8, 2023
  • Ukraine Crisis
    According to multiple sources, Dec 17, 2023:

    Finland was taken and dragged into NATO. What did we have, some kind of dispute with Finland? All disputes, including those of a territorial nature in the middle of the 20th century, were all resolved a long time ago. We had the best, most heartfelt relations. Economically, everything was developing. Yes, in the timber industry, there were some problems linked to the necessity to develop timber processing within the country. But that was all. Just a small detail in reality. There weren't any problems, but now there will be. Because we've now been forced to create a Leningrad military district and concentrate a certain number of military units there. Why do they need that? It's just nonsense. The same goes for other countries, including NATO countries. With whom did we have problems? Nobody. They're the ones who are artificially creating problems with us. Because they don't want such a competitor as Russia.Putin

    Starting false here (nope, Finland chose, Sweden chose, Ukraine chose) again exemplifies the alternate world type stuff. Conclusion(s) kind of fizzle out (ex falso quodlibet). Seems doubtful that the Kremlin circle could have missed / not understood (i.e. mala fides), but maybe they do need a wake-up call? The UN (and the good baker Jones of upper Negombo, Sri Lanka) have repeatedly clarified, and, yes, their claims/side have been considered. Unless/until called out, they can continue their moves and threats and story-telling. Ought a (diplomatic) dialogue address these issues?
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    False and fabricated intel promoted by the people in the White House themselves, yes.ssu

    If nothing else, at least the story hasn't been "disappeared" / suppressed.

    Opinion: ‘At my first meeting with Saddam Hussein, within 30 seconds, he knew two things about me,’ says FBI interrogator
    Peter Bergen interviews George Piro · CNN · Mar 21, 2023

    Investigated all the way down to Curveball's involvement, and fairly consistently and openly criticized, including by Americans — a scandal/travesty and lesson learned that might not quite have seen the light of day elsewhere. Something similar will happen again though, whether the US or someone else.
  • Climate change denial
    Ough :/

    Microplastic pollution rained down on Canada during a hurricane
    — Carolyn Wilke · New Scientist · Dec 7, 2023
    It's raining microplastics: Hurricane Larry dropped plastic particles all over N.L.
    — Jean-Benoit Legault · Toronto Star · Dec 16, 2023
  • Ukraine Crisis
    'I Didn’t Change My Number': Macron Still Open To Dialogue With Putin If It Helps To Bring Peace
    — Samuel Petrequin · AP · Dec 15, 2023
    At some point the French president stopped the relationship with us. We didn’t do it, I didn’t. He did. If there’s interest, we’re ready. If not, we’ll cope.Putin
    I didn’t start the war unilaterally, breaking the treaties I’d agreed to. And it wasn’t France that decided to commit war crimes in the north of Ukraine, making discussions virtually impossible. Well, we have to be serious, so I have a very simple position. I haven’t changed my number. If President Putin has a willingness to engage in dialogue and serious proposals to move forward and emerge from the conflict and build a lasting peace, that is to say one that respects international law and therefore Ukrainian interests and sovereignty, I’ll take the call.Macron

    How to negotiate with alternate world type stuff? The Kremlin has demands masquerading as proposals.


    Oryx have investigated equipment losses (ongoing) — Russian, Ukrainian — which seems rather comprehensive, Russian in particular. Personnel losses are reportedly rather comprehensive as well, in line with the amount of explosives burned.

    U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 casualties -source (yahoo)
    — Jonathan Landay, Guy Faulconbridge, Daniel Wallis, Bill Berkrot, Jonathan Oatis · Reuters · Dec 12, 2023
    Russia Has Lost Almost 90% of Its Prewar Army, U.S. Intelligence Says (msn)
    — Warren P Strobel, Matthew Luxmoore · WSJ · Dec 12, 2023

    The numbers are a noticeable fraction of invasion forces and available resources, unlike Crimea 2014. The Kremlin may not care much about humans (though they keep speaking of "Ukrainian sacrifices"); did they anticipate those numbers though? What do they anticipate for them to "cleanse" Ukraine? (in Kremlin-speak, "Nazi" ≈ non-irredentist + having chosen not-Kremlin, or whatever, which may or may not include Nazis)
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    , Iraq was based on false/fabricated intel and later turned into a disaster. (also Nov 14, 2023) If not much else, at least Saddam Hussein's wretched rule ended. I think Afghanistan is different, though. Not so much due to the US rationale to catch Osama bin Laden (and end Al-Qaeda), but due to the takeover by extremist, anti-humanitarian Taliban (also 2001), whose wretched effects we can see today (even if overshadowed by Israel-Hamas, Russia-Ukraine). But that's more of a reason not to abandon Afghanistan. Where's the UN?
  • Reason for believing in the existence of the world
    But when one believes in the existence of the world, but says there is no justified belief in the world when not perceiving it. What would you class the position?Corvus

    Justified yes (evidential), proven no (purely deductive). ← different

    ↪Corvus, it's safer to think that what you won't know can still kill you.
    But hey, you won't find any purely deductive disproof of solipsism either.
    Nov 25, 2023

    Hence, we try to seek justification on our beliefs and perception.
    But point here is, can belief be justified properly? Belief is a psychological state, which cannot be justified rationally in nature.

    Or are some beliefs also epistemic when justified? But if it cannot be justified, then it can't be. How do we justify our beliefs rationally?
    Corvus

    By "properly" do you mean deductively, with logical certainty?

    Metaphysics that have survived (this far, sort of, in corners of academia at least), are just that. For some proposition, p, if attainable evidence is compatible with both p and ¬p, then we strand there. And we're venturing into metaphysics. Not particularly informative, like a difference that makes no difference (though Bateson used that phrase differently).

    So, taken together, pragmatic safety, those novelties, our errors, annoying constraints, our agreements, stuff like that (taken together), give us anti-idealism if you will. But not as a matter of mere deduction. Observations, evidence, experiences, linguistic practices, life, and rationality too. Ethics involve an extra-self world as well.

    Besides, there are some pitfalls in thinking that axiomatic logic can derive particulars of the real world by itself (logicing). Such logic is non-ampliative, derives what's contained in axioms, however complex to prove, and that's it. Hence it can be extended with modal logic. Knowledge of the real world needs the real world to stand on, if you will.

    Have a good weekend. Grabbing a JD#7 on the rocks.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    they didn't anticipate the Ukrainian responsessu

    That would be my guess as well, though there are some (ambiguous) signs...
    "others are out to destroy Russia"
    tightening domestic control + nationalist propaganda/indoctrination
    "new world order" (the multipolar thing)
    nuclear armament + posturing
    foreign destabilization efforts
    threats + polemics
    cold war trajectory
  • Coronavirus
    Incidentally just scrolled by:

    Comparison of mild physiological effects of surgical masks and N95 respirators over 60 min at rest
    — Valerie C Cates, Anthony L Marullo, et al · Mount Royal University · Jul 5, 2023

    According to this research, masking up has inconsequential negative effects.
  • Coronavirus
    There's a fair roundup over here, though the latest may not have made it in:
    Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (Wikipedia)
    Collaboration, mRNA/protein technology, etc.

    FYI, for a simple overview, I think this will do:

    1gg9pzwyhb8azorg.png
  • Ukraine Crisis
    the Russian wartime economy is getting to it's feetssu

    Warring was what they had planned all along, or Ukraine turned out tougher than they anticipated, or ...?
  • The Anarchy of Nations
    One has to wonder, why does this State of Nature seem to work on such a grand scale, and with such non-entities, but is refused on the smaller scale and with real, living, flesh-and-blood human beings?NOS4A2

    Because a group is more powerful than any of its individuals alone?
    No individual alone could put a satellite into orbit, end the Holocaust, create or maintain all that's required for this forum to function as it does, ...
    It seems that whatever groups (be they states or corporations or whatever) emerge sort of naturally?
    I guess an individual's expected actions, as part of a group, can be partially pre/proscribed and/or constrained, and if they're born into a group...
    (Apologies if you had something else in mind.)
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Will Putin beat Stalin?

    l9dx9yits1ct1ryq.jpg

    Catherine the Great ruled for 34 years.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    In a TV Q&A (of sorts) on Dec 14, 2023 with Pukin (NBC, AP, Reuters), Mikhail Khodorkovsky noticed some unanswered Qs:

    “Why does your reality differ from ours?”

    “Mr President, when will real Russia stop being different from the one on TV?”
    “Hello, how can I move to the Russia they talk about on Channel One?”

    “For how long will you keep manipulating the percentage of inflation?”

    Alternate world type stuff. Observed a few times in the thread prior. Apparently also observed by some Russians.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Quickly thrown together (some of those on the left are related):

    *                                                     Nazi Germany  Contemporary Russia (or the Kremlin)
    systematic oppression                                 yes           yes
    authoritarian                                         yes           yes
    state nationalism (e.g. "we are one" polemic)         yes           yes
    systematic propaganda                                 yes           yes
    systematic indoctrination (children)                  yes           yes
    treatment of homosexuals                              :-(           :-(
    human rights                                          :-(           :-(
    transparency                                          no            no
    freedom                                               :-(           :-(
    Nazis in employ                                       well, yes     yes
    intimidation (e.g. domestic power abuse)              yes           yes
    de facto judiciary independence                       no            no (e.g. undermined)
    danger to neighbors (e.g. landgrabbery)               yes           yes
    ruthless (+ pride therein)                            yes           yes
    (apparent) Nazi obsession                             yes           yes
    shown willingness to change/improve where it matters  no            no
    had/has good people                                   yes :-)       yes :-)
    

    The derogatory "Putler" was allegedly coined in Russia and/or Ukraine. Might have been motivated by something like the above taken together. Anyway, evidence for the above can be found throughout the thread. Haven't compared with Imperial Japan or Fascist Italy.
  • Populism, anti-intellectualism, ...
    Hyper-critique could be down to finding a single fault + subsequent complete dismissal, not in logic/mathematics, but more social/human matters. Normalization of hyper-critique is a part of what I had in mind. Some trends and thoughts that might be related to what I'm thinking of (with the requisite name-dropping) ...

    science (Popper (1930s)) → methodical falsification attempts
    suspicion (Ricœur (1960s)) → onwards to radical suspicion
    cynicism (Sloterdijk (1980s), Žižek (1980s)) → knowing and not caring
    bullshit (Frankfurt (1980s)) → not caring
    postcritique (Sedgwick (1990s)) → reparation of paranoia
    distrust (Latour (2000s)) → on to radical distrust

    So, post-truth, the Trump, pandemic reactions, Evangelism resenters demagogues onboard for the ride, UFOs, mind-control, ...? Examples can be found here on the forums, too. Say, where does "being reasonable" fit in? (in a colloquial sense, with a nod towards ethics)
  • Coronavirus
    Why are you so quick to defend big pharma. Does your grandmother receive her pension from them?Merkwurdichliebe

    Who said I am? Just pointing the childish generalization at itself. :D
  • Coronavirus
    None of it should be trusted. Not big pharma, not government, not mass media, not the church, &c, &c.Merkwurdichliebe

    Maybe neither should ↑ this
  • Ukraine Crisis
    FYI

    Fitch anticipates the war will continue throughout 2024 within its current broad parameters. In our view, Ukraine still has some strategic military advantage, underpinned by strong resolve and Western military support, but its counteroffensive has made limited gains so far, and in our central scenario there is insufficient superiority to decisively deliver objectives.

    We also consider there is an absence of politically credible concessions that could result in a negotiated end to the war, potentially leading to a very protracted conflict. Over a longer horizon, we anticipate some form of settlement, but view a 'frozen conflict' as more likely than a sustainable peace deal, at least for a significant period.
    Fitch Affirms Ukraine at 'CC' · Fitch Ratings · Dec 8, 2023

    Anyone interested in what Russian propaganda looks like can check Ural Daily (Dec 10, 2023). Not sure of the intended audience.

    Helping another nation exercise their right to self-defense is only rational if it has a chance of succeeding. There is no such chance in the case of the Ukraine war, and thus Europe should not contribute to the illusion that Ukraine can win this war.Tzeentch

    Really? :D The Kremlin fears a few scenarios (hence their saber-rattling), scenarios that Ukraine + allies haven't done. Taking over the Ukrainian skies is one that's come up in the thread. Unless some such move is implemented, the Kremlin likely will (and can) keep pushing it. :shrug:
  • Ukraine Crisis
    A gigantic new ICBM will take US nuclear missiles out of the Cold War-era but add 21st-century risks
    — Tara Copp · AP · Dec 10, 2023

    So, Kremlin saber-rattling has swiftly brought on a new cold war? They've already spoken of arms race and such, plus their going-and-doings point in that direction.

    Nuclear posturing of late has been Russian and North Korean. The Kremlin appears to be going for a Cold War II. Incidentally, the kind of environment Putin was trained in, grew up in, knows, where he made some buddies.Nov 20, 2023

    It's a choice they can make, it's not like others can make (or skip) it for them, though, once made, it impacts others. That is, you can't choose not to be affected, or not to play, only how to.


    Since the Ukrainian skies have come up again (hi ), a fairly straightforward observation regarding do'ers and the rest:

    Kyiv might have declared a no-fly zone in Ukrainian airspace (apart from approved flights), and that hostilities taken against them will be taken out (regardless of location, "so please keep your distance"). Within their mandate, in part at least; might have been expected or recommended by some strategists. Others, like the USAF, JASDF, RAF, whoever, might have helped implement that. (By the way, no commercial flights since Feb 2022 thanks to the Kremlin.)

    Maybe the capable should start seriously talking about implementing a no-fly zone in Ukrainian airspace, iff the Ukrainian government wishes it.

    Sending F-16s to Ukraine in fight against Russia would take 'months and months': Blinken
    — Tal Axelrod · ABC · Jul 23, 2023
    A Russian fighter jet fired flares at a US drone over Syria and damaged it, the US military says
    — Lolita C Baldor, Tara Copp · AP · Jul 25, 2023

    Then (if their government says so), any missiles violating that, warrants taking out the source of launch. Much like whatever other nation, here implemented by whatever coalition agreeing to help Ukraine. Once the Ukrainian skies are better cleared of offenders, civilians will be safer, the situation different, and more assessments warranted. That is, no tiptoeing inside Ukrainian airspace [...]
    — Jul 24, 2023

    Didn't happen. Instead something else, analogous happened ...


    See that? The central difference being that we're talking Ukraine, not Russia or Malaysia or ... (There's something...ridiculous about this...)

    There are some lessons learned here. Initiative and resolve, discussions debates bureaucracy slowness (some of which is merited, mind you), indecision becoming the decision, strategy, concessions, ... Meanwhile, the authoritarian Kremlin rolls on.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    :D There's something funny about this:

    Russia’s Latest Disinformation Tactic Exploits American Celebrities
    — Steven Lee Myers · The New York Times · Dec 7, 2023
    Russian propagandists exploited celebrity Cameo videos to spread disinformation, Microsoft says
    — Catherine Thorbecke · CNN · Dec 7, 2023

    Making fun using Elijah Wood, Mike Tyson, Priscilla Presley, Kate Flannery, Shavo Odadjian, John McGinley, Dean Norris, ... I'm not sure the (original) intent was comedy, though.

    Russian influence and cyber operations adapt for long haul and exploit war fatigue
    — Clint Watts · Microsoft Threat Analysis Center · Dec 7, 2023
    Russian FSB cyber actor Star Blizzard continues worldwide spear-phishing campaigns
    — UK National Cyber Security Centre · Dec 7, 2023
  • Ukraine Crisis
    , plus with some (typical) partners, the UK, France, Canada, Poland, Romania, whoever, a no-fly zone of sorts could have been imposed and maintained effectively.
    Don't know if the UN would have a majority vote to impose a no-fly zone, but I suppose it's conceivable.
  • Reason for believing in the existence of the world
    If one does not believe an external world exists, then one is a solipsist, right?
    Or, if one is not a solipsist, then one believes an external world exists (contraposition).
    For the hyper-skeptic, only the existence of a variety of thoughts is certain, whatever they all may be.

    Some indications:
    We sometimes discover new things; things previously unknown, unthought, unexperienced, uninvented.
    We're sometimes wrong about things; what, then, made us wrong, but whatever is indeed the case?
    We can't do just anything, whether trying to "will" it so or not; extra-self imposed limitations.

    Non-solipsists:
    We agree on any number of things, a rather large number; when to be at work in the morning; where the local grocery store is; this is English; ...

    ↑ mostly adapted from earlier posts and other posters
  • Ukraine Crisis
    [...] that underlying threat, which is the US. NATO is simply a vessel.Tzeentch

    The threat of democracy and non-oppression/freedom? :D It's a constant threat to authoritarianism (if anyone is willing to stand up), as it should be.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    I guess formal law amendments can be done during wartime + martial law:

    The Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Ruslan Stefanchuk reported on the results of the plenary session on 8 December 2023
    — Government of Ukraine (Verkhovna Rada) · Dec 8, 2023

    [...] It contains observations aimed at bringing some provisions in line with the European Convention on Human Rights of 1950, the Framework Convention for National Minorities of 1995, and the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages of 1992. — Daria Iulia Cotiuba

    Welcoming the UA amendments to legislation relevant to national minorities in Ukraine - a positive step forward. RO will continue to promote a transparent and constructive approach on this matter. (Luminita Odobescu · Dec 8, 2023)

    At some point, the Russian system inheritance could be transformed to modern democracy (shedding the shackles).
  • Ukraine Crisis
    FYI, interview with Sergei Ryabkov:

    “I don’t think that relations between Russia and NATO will be restored” (en)
    — Semyon Boykov · Izvestia · Nov 29, 2023

    It's worthwhile keeping notice of what's omitted (I'm not intending to propagate Kremlin propaganda).


    US and Sweden sign Defence Cooperation Agreement
    — Simon Johnson, Dan Whitcomb, Christina Fincher, Jacqueline Wong · Reuters · Dec 6, 2023
    Sweden is a strong, capable defense partner that champions NATO’s values, and will further strengthen the Alliance once its NATO accession is completed. Sweden’s membership will strengthen our collective defense and enhance our ability to respond to security challenges in the Euro-Atlantic area. Sweden will be a net security provider from its first day in NATO, and the Alliance will be stronger with Sweden as a NATO Ally.US Department of State

    The Swedes didn't do so because they're a US puppet, they did so because Russia is a Kremlin puppet and the Kremlin ain't friendly.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    , I'm guessing @NOS4A2 is just using the Trump circus to criticize democracy, well, ultimately any state/government. Kind of coincidental, in a way?
  • Ukraine Crisis
    I guess people are used to Medvedev's ramblings by now...

    3. Never since the Cuban Missile Crisis has the threat of a direct clash between Russia and NATO leading to the Third World War been so real.
    [...]
    And for this loot new rivers of blood will flow, for which the Biden family and all their Bandera bastard are responsible.
    Dmitry Medvedev · Dec 8, 2023

    Oddly enough, (threats of) nuclear world war by and large only come out of the Kremlin circle (and North Korea) these days. Or maybe it's not that odd, just more of the planned posturing.

    Ex-president clowns: Do Trump or Medvedev ramble the most? :D

    The Kremlin has deployed convicted cannibal Denis Gorin, serial killer Nikolai Ogolobyak, and other suchlike to Ukraine. "Watch out, Ukrainians!" (Not "shoe found in tiger's mouth", but in cannibal's mouth.) Seems odd if those convicts were to walk the streets of Moscow once/if released from military duty.
  • Why is the Hard Problem of Consciousness so hard?
    What's different between what we want to reconcile?
    (mind and world, perception and the perceived, etc)

    For one, introspective (self-referential) versus extrospective (extra-self, other).
    When mind tries to understand itself, wouldn't we expect some sort of cognitive horizon or limit?
  • Coronavirus
    FYI, here are some grim trackers:

    HermanCainAward (w)
    sorryantivaxxer
    CovidiotDeaths

    Somewhat akin to the Darwin Awards (w). Similar lists have appeared here and there in newspapers/publications.

    Conspiracy theorists (and some others) tend to not get it. Can/should anything be done?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Words don't have the power [...]NOS4A2

    Might we not as well shut down elementary (and other) schools then?

    In case Trump's crap was true, it would merit action (like the My Lai massacre and the Holocaust and Watergate did), and if someone believes so, then you'd expect them to act, yes?

    (As an aside, do you think belief formation is necessarily rational or "free choice" (assuming there is such a thing)?)

    ↑→ words
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Via Die Welt and Passauer Neue Presse on Dec 7, 2023:

    There will be no diplomatic solution with Putin. He may not be irrational, as some claim, but he is obsessed. At the beginning of the offensive, we were quick to supply anti-tank missiles and air defense equipment, and today we are doing a lot for air defense. But there were also unfortunate delays. If we now stand on the sidelines and criticize the fact that Ukraine is not making enough progress, we have to keep in mind that we have our share in this.Klaus Wittmann

    I'm guessing a few echo Wittmann.

    (you can translate the German via google translate or similar as needed)
  • Ukraine Crisis
    :D I'm pretty sure there are radicals shooting at Biden in the US as well. (They probably don't know (or care about) those others.)

    In Russia, children "learn patriotism" while shooting at Biden, Zelenskyy and Stoltenberg. (Anton Gerashchenko · Dec 5, 2023)

    Isn't "Peaceful Warrior" a bit like "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."?

    Hadn't come across NAFO before. Apparently, they make fun of US senators, well, whoever.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Can anyone semi-informed imagine who might replace Putin, and what policy changes would result? Or am I only dreaming?unenlightened

    As far as politics go, Yekaterina Duntsova seems a good candidate.

    In Russia, war and fear trouble one presidential hopeful
    — Guy Faulconbridge, Ed Osmond · Reuters · Nov 27, 2023

    In the present Russia, her chances are slim, though. For that matter, she could be "put away" for having political (or any) gatherings, be deemed a "foreign agent" or "extremist", or, in case she manages to become popular, she could find herself "falling off a balcony". Putinistan abuse (of laws) isn't hard to come by and could hit whoever.
  • Coronavirus
    people in high places [...] Schwab, Bill Gates [...] big pharma [...] politicians on the national level [...] WHO, national governmentsTzeentch

    :D

    I have no doubt they have major influence [...] people themselves are simply not equipped to deal with this kind of fuckeryTzeentch

    Too little hard evidence is what makes it all so murky. That's what gives the herd the right to deem anything that does not conform to the official narrative as wackadoodle conspiracy theory.Merkwurdichliebe

    Yeah, Mar 12, 2023.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    So what's new?

    (rferl 2023Feb9, voanews 2023Feb13, wsj 2023Feb22, reuters 2023Mar10, wionews 2023Mar17, yahoo 2023Mar17, cnn 2023Mar18, metro 2023Apr15, metro 2023Dec1, twitter 2023Dec3 ↓)

    Russia Issues Ominous Warning About 'Next Victim'
    — Nick Mordowanec · Newsweek · Nov 30, 2023
    Lavrov said on Thursday that Moldova, an Eastern European country and former Soviet republic, is putting itself in harm's way in its desire to join the European Union.

    Because Moldova isn't allowed to join the EU by the Kremlin. :D Right.
    What next? Outlawing homosexuality? Oh wait...

    (2012Jul18 2023Aug18 2023Nov24 2023Dec2 ...)

    Anyway, what's glaringly objectionable here, is the proliferation of that system, like the authoritarianism regress oppression with free reins to gobble up and roll over others (to the cheers of mobs, and others, and objections being blackwashed). Seen before, seeing it again, oh well, tomorrow be damned (or not).

    You can't just throw in a "hence" to construct an argument.boethius

    :D Ukraine still isn't ruled by a Nazi regime, those claims are straight from the Kremlin's propaganda machine (don't echo them), the Kremlin circle = serial liars (+ hypocrites), dis/agree? They're doing too much of what they're accusing others of (regress), might not be a coincidence.

    it doesn't fall flatboethius

    If the Kremlin's propaganda is right, then Ukraine is ruled by a Nazi government.

    I do not think Ukraine has made more progress than Russia on the freedom and equality scaleboethius

    Links and examples have been given throughout (including 2023Nov30). I guess some would call it a bit unusual that Ukraine managed to progress in the wartime situation. The Russian regress has perhaps been more predictable. The (past) Ukrainian system is hardly a surprise, they're attempting to shed the shackles of their dominant neighbor to the north, much to Putin's dismay.

    mainly micro-blogboethius

    It's called evidence (exemplifications, observations + occasional reasoning about it), as opposed to narrative story-telling (with interspersed mind-reading and unevidenced jumping).

    nuclear blackmail obviously worksboethius

    Obviously. So, the Kremlin gets their way, or it's the nuclear way? Was that what you were claiming?

    You're genuinely surprised by the result?boethius

    There was a time when I would have been. It's another (cumulative) reason for, say, India and China to part ways with the Kremlin. As an aside, I suspect (pure conjecture on my part) that Jinping has different plans anyway, that cooperation with Putin is more of a useful intermission as it were, but who knows.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Your claim wasboethius

    Exactly. Hence, the Kremlin circle = serial liars (+ hypocrites). Dis/agree?

    I do not claim Ukraine is ruled by a Nazi regimeboethius

    Whether you do or not, the Kremlin circle does, and employs that as a rationale for their wretched warring, which hence falls flat. Yes? No?

    ‘There are no homosexuals in this country’ How Putin’s embrace of homophobia echoes dictators of the past
    — Vasily Legeido, Sam Breazeale · Meduza · Oct 21, 2022
    Top Russian court bans LGBT movement as 'extremist'
    — Mark Trevelyan, Kevin Liffey · Reuters · Nov 30, 2023

    Ukraine has made some progress, where Russia has regressed. Agree or not?

    (As an aside, check how many steps from this old post (Banno, 180 Proof) Pukin has accomplished.)

    So hard to keep trackboethius

    Especially with long weaving comments, eh? ;)

    By the way,

    ↪boethius, the Kremlin gets their way, or it's the nuclear way...?Nov 9, 2023

    FYI, reportedly, Ukraine has become the most littered area on the planet — littered with Russian mines, bombs, trip wires and traps, grenades, explosives in kitchen gear and toys, ...

    59vzlujcb7qwkixy.jpg
  • Ukraine Crisis
    , if you went over the thread, I think you'd find that there's no denying that Ukraine has a slew of social problems, so don't put words in my mouth.

    The latest reiteration of plain lying (that I know of) from the Kremlin circle:

    Russia’s foreign minister faces Western critics at security meeting and walks out after speech
    — Konstantin Testorides, Derek Gatopoulos · AP · Nov 30, 2023
    ruling neo-Nazi regime in KyivSergey Lavrov
    Can you leave me alone, please? Thank you.Sergey Lavrov

    Shouldn't that be "Please leave the Ukrainians be"? When called out, they walk out. Their alternate world crap isn't working.

    No where do I claim Ukraine is ruled by a Nazi regime.boethius

    Goodie then, you don't defend/uphold the Kremlin's fabrication, glad to hear it. :up:

    Ukraine still isn't ruled by a Nazi regime; those claims are straight from the Kremlin's propaganda machine (don't echo them)
    [...]
    Apr 25, 2022 - Dec 20, 2022 - Aug 2, 2023
    Nov 28, 2023

    A fabrication they uphold as a rationale for their invasion (attempted landgrab). "DeNazification and demilitarization of Ukraine" — except not concerned with, say, Pavel Gubarev. (Or the late Utkin, or Rusich, ....) Quick to "throw bombs while living in a glass house" as it were. Introspection not their strong suit? Because it's a ruse with ulterior motives, propaganda for the gullible.

    I guess you're looking to justify their invasion by different means then — those creepy Ukrainian Nazis? (Doing Pesky's job, eh? :D) If given the chance, it might be interesting to see what'll happen, under the watchful eye of (peace-time) democracy.

    Ukrainians change for the better for exampleboethius

    There was a link, also posted prior on Oct 16, 2023; I guess I can post a more recent summary...
    Criterion               Jun 2023       Nov 2023
    Constitutional Court    Good progress  Completed
    Judicial governance     Completed      Completed
    Anti-corruption         Some progress  Some progress
    Anti-money laundering   Some progress  Completed
    De-oligarchisation      Some progress  Some progress
    Media legislation       Completed      Completed
    National minorities     Some progress  Some progress
    
    Incremental steps for democracy transparency freedom contra authoritarianism regress oppression (shedding the shackles of their dominant neighbor to the north, much to Putin's dismay). At least they're trying while getting shit all over.

    By the way,

    ↪boethius, the Kremlin gets their way, or it's the nuclear way...?Nov 9, 2023