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Discussion: Three Types of Atheism
Well obviously, but what in them precisely?Your previous posts. — anonymous66 -
Favorite philosophical quote?
You should get a copy of his Pensées and read them if you haven't already! It's full of gold! ;)Thanks for the Pascal quotes. It is a shame he died so young :C — lambda -
The Pornography Thread
I agree.So everyone should definitely stop drinking sweet coffee, ever! — Noblosh -
Post truthRight, and behold here is dear crybaby Wayfarer who is still not over the loss of Crooked. In the next 4 years, we'll have the honour to see him crying about his boss Trump weekly.
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Post truth
They're not in jail because they fear punishment for breaking the law, therefore they don't do it. Simple. It's not because they love the law.Huh, that's odd, I wonder why the entire population is not in jail then. — Metaphysician Undercover
No but perception is important. Not all people perceive the same. It's your fault for thinking they do. And this isn't a matter of eyes, but a matter of consciousness, attentiveness, interest, etc.I see your point. You think that some people have X-ray eyes, and this makes them better philosophers. — Metaphysician Undercover -
What are we trying to accomplish, really? Inauthentic decisions, and the like
Why dangerous? >:OHere we have a dangerous consensus emerging — mcdoodle -
The Pornography Thread
Exactly, so cocaine is inherently addictive, something that can be proven chemically. So is porn. Of course there are exceptions, but these are just exceptions, not the rule.Yeah, I'd not argue that people don't more often get addicted. I don't know what the percentage would be, and I don't know if anyone knows that. It's something it's difficult to get data for. I've seen plenty of both sides--people who did it a bit and had no problem with it, and people who had a huge problem with it. — Terrapin Station -
What are we trying to accomplish, really? Inauthentic decisions, and the like
Not only that, but most *big* things are the result of very long hours spent at honing something - whether that's a skill, a trade, a relationship, etc. That requires habit - otherwise you'll never put in the energy, each and every day, to get it done.Habits are part of successful and authentic life. Habits enable us to use our limited resources to make important decisions when they arise. — Bitter Crank -
The Pornography Thread
In either case, you're an outlier then. Cocaine is known to be one of the drugs that produces addiction very quickly.Yes. Don't forget that I've been a professional musician for a long time. I've done a lot of drug experimentation. — Terrapin Station -
Post truth
No.Do you not realize that I can just throw your own argument right back at you to address this issue? — Metaphysician Undercover
No, it's not natural for human beings to follow moral codes and laws when they are provided. That's precisely why we have to use harsh punishments to get them to follow the laws. If you removed the punishments, you'd see that naturally - without the use of external force - human beings would not comply with moral codes and laws.So, the capacity to follow laws, and be moral is not artificial, but it's natural for human beings to follow some sort of moral codes and laws when they are given them to follow. — Metaphysician Undercover
It's not only about capacities here. It's also about tendencies, reactions, instincts, etc. Just like you have certain physical features you inherit from your parents, you also have some mental features.OK, so let's say that there are particular capacities which are predetermined by the physical structure of the brain. — Metaphysician Undercover
Yes, the point is there is something written in there already.The blank slate has the capacity to have something written on it — Metaphysician Undercover
Nope, I haven't made use of the tabula rasa perspective. Where do you see that I have?What's with the double standard? Tabula rasa is acceptable when it supports your claim, but it's nonsense when it supports my claim. — Metaphysician Undercover
Don't be silly. A book is part of the world, but the things that it refers to aren't necessarily parts of the world (in the case of fiction for example, they aren't). Identifying the referents doesn't involve just reading, but your own experience too. If I describe you an apple, and you've never seen one before, it's not likely that you'd be able to instantly identify it when you first see it. Your own experience is relevant in making sense of what you read.OK, so a book is not a part of the world. — Metaphysician Undercover
They didn't have access to anywhere near as much reading material as you do today - referring here to Aristotle, and Plato. Most of the concepts they had developed, they developed by themselves, through their own perceptions and experiments. And yeah, no doubt that philosophers were well-schooled, I'm just saying that being well-schooled, in and of itself, isn't sufficient to be a great philosopher.All of those philosophers mentioned were well schooled, which means lots of reading. — Metaphysician Undercover
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's perception that makes the difference, not thought. Thought merely re-arranges what is already given in perception.What are you saying, that their eyes could see deeper into the substances in the world? — Metaphysician Undercover
Talent is able to achieve what is beyond other people’s capacity to achieve, yet not what is beyond their capacity of apprehension; therefore it at once finds its appreciators. The achievement of genius, on the other hand, transcends not only others’ capacity of achievement, but also their capacity of apprehension; therefore they do not become immediately aware of it. Talent is like the marksman who hits a target which others cannot reach; genius is like the marksman who hits a target … which others cannot even see. — WWR Vol II Chapter XXXI
That's Schopenhauer. Good information about this is also found in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance if you have read it.
No, because contemplation isn't the same as sitting in the armchair lost in thoughts. It's actively engaged with, observing and being in touch with the world.Didn't Aristotle determine that the life of contemplation is the best possible life? Doesn't leaving the armchair, and the life of contemplation, bring one down to a lower form of existence? — Metaphysician Undercover -
Comey has been fun
I don't know, you tell me.So then what's the rumpus? — Sivad
No.Is there a particular point you'd like to make about this exchange? — Srap Tasmaner -
The Pornography Thread
If it's not an obsession, then live without it (or hookups, etc.) for one year.Porn is the same, I look at it every so often but it's not a obsession, there's probably only a small percentage of people that are porno-maniacs, most of us can self-regulate. — Sivad -
The Pornography Thread
That's like squaring the circle pretty much. Two sado-masochists can claim they enjoy cutting each other up, that ain't makin' it true. A cannibal's victim can claim they enjoy being eaten - that ain't makin' it true either.If someone is looking for a hookup, it means not just searching for someone who says "Yes," but someone else who wants to have sex with them. The goal is not for them to "get some." It's to engage in an act which benefits the well-being of someone else. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Just like the cannibal, it's self-deception for someone looking for a hookup to think they're really looking for someone who wants to have amazing, knee-shaking sex with them, as if they were doing that person a favor. A cannibal may also look for someone who wants to be eaten, does that make it more moral somehow, or beneficial for the victim?
Some people - perhaps a majority of people in today's society - are mentally deranged, to one degree or another, regarding hookups. So what makes it fascinating - why would I want to go out to find a random stranger who wants to shag so that I can fuck her brains out for a night? Clearly the pleasure I'd be looking for isn't the pleasure of orgasm, or any purely physical pleasure, cause then I'd just pull up some porn and spank the monkey.
So what is it then? Validation maybe? I want to be sexually validated by another. I want someone else -
preferably a smoking-hot, jaw-dropping beauty that is desired by many other men to validate me as macho, sexy, and strong. I want her to want me, over everyone else. Domination? I want to get her to willingly give herself to me, much like a sacrifice is provided to a God. Beg me to pleasure her, touch her, smell her, taste her. Feeling important? Oh yes, I want to take her to the peaks of pleasure where she can barely breathe anymore and feel myself being associated as the source of that pleasure - as essential to her state, as responsible for it. When she says it's the best few hours of her life, it must be me there - I must be the cause of that. Certainly then I would have provided what no one else could to one person - despite all the disadvantages I had (just knowing her for one night). Excitement and overcoming fear of the unknown? That too. I'm testing my powers, I don't know exactly how it will work out, but when it works out in my favour I feel supremely happy - my strength is validated and affirmed in the world.
Let me switch on to a woman. If I were a woman here's how I'd feel about hookups. I'd enjoy men glancing at my hot body, looking after my skin, being excited when I look back at them, desiring me. I'd enjoy knowing that my body is hot, and can dominate (attract) other men. The more the better. I'd enjoy them squirming to get between my legs, latching onto my each and every word, and desiring me with their entire beings - being willing to do anything for me. As I tease them, I love seeing their eyes burning with desire, ready to swallow me whole. To lie on my back and have a guy worshipping at my temple - that moment I would matter, I would be important, SIGNIFICANT. At least to this one person, I am everything. I may be a tiny and insignificant ant, but to this one person I matter more than all the stars and galaxies put together. My body is so hot and damn it feels so great to have another want me and pump into me. And damn, look at those sexy, strong abs. So hot, so powerful and it's all under my control. Out of all the bitches out there, this guy chose me. I want to drain him completely, I want him to surrender everything he has. I love clinging and moaning to his body, feeling his kisses on my neck, and my hair spread out all over the pillow.
So let's see. We have:
• Validation (both social and sexual)
• Domination
• Feeling Important/Significant
• Excitement
• Feeling Wanted/Needed
Now what the hell is wrong with this seductive train of thought? I can already hear Bitter Crank around being like "Hell yeah that sounds great man! Let's get this shagathon ON!" >:O
The representations above are idealised. They are hookups at their best - no worries about STDs, not worries about pregnancy - none of the actual practicalities and technicalities involved. No actual hookup is likely to live up to the descriptions above.
Now - something becomes clear. Hookups originate and have their being in a lack - in an absence. Their purpose is to fill up an emptiness inside the soul. Someone wants to be validated, to feel strong/powerful (at least sexually), to feel important and significant to another, and to feel wanted and needed. They want to feel like they mean something to another - something deep and powerful.
However, the salient point here is that hookups always involve deception. The people involved always deceive one another that they are able or capable to give to each other what they are each looking for - which is false. That deepest need is the need for strength, power, independence and self-sufficiency. Paradoxically, after the sex one feels like they can get anything they want from the world - as if they were self-sufficient. They feel strong, desired, wanted. But the truth is that they're always at the mercy of the other - they have failed to reach and gain what they were looking for - that's why they feel compelled to repeat the experience. To hit it out on Tinder once again, and take another round. Like playin' a slot machine.
In addition to this, the two people actively harm each other by treating the other as a tool for achieving their purposes (hence objectification). Hookups revolve around me - around I - the ego. They don't stem out of love, respect, dignity, and compassion for the other, but rather from personal NEED and WEAKNESS.
There is a deep humiliation in that, which is often experienced as self-pity or guilt afterwards for those who are aware of it - those who are open to feel it. The same humiliation the horse feels when after a very long journey, it still doesn't get the carrot. Why is it humiliating? Because one falls short of one's goal, and yet one was convinced they had achieved it. This self-deception feels humiliating.
So the idea that a hookup benefits the well-being of someone else is utterly contradictory and irrational - the height of self-deception. The temporary high that one receives from a hookup is only met by a much deeper and more pervading loss to be followed. Not to mention the irreparable damage that is done in terms of intimacy, and relating to others. -
The Pornography Thread
Is watching porn inevitable?Isn't addiction also inevitable? — Noblosh
Can you sniff cocaine and not be addicted?Untrue, where did you even get that idea from? — Noblosh
I have provided you with a video containing the facts. Have you watched it?Then maybe educate people if they themselves can't grasp that much. They need to know the downsides, clear facts, not the theory that it's wicked and deplorable and should be banned, that doesn't tell them much. — Noblosh -
The Pornography Thread
>:O It would be, but nobody, including the moderators, have the power to close threads :PWord. Thread closed?... — Noble Dust -
The Pornography Thread
The stigma is inevitable.1. Porn actors are free to change their jobs and porn industry is legal and regulated, the stigma that comes with it is assumed and may be itself the problem. — Noblosh
So what? Porn is addictive by its very nature, it is impossible to dabble in porn and not be addicted.2. People can make an addiction from virtually anything. — Noblosh
Yes, and we should fight against all addictions, including porn.3. You mean: porn as an addiction has long-standing effects on the brain but so does any other addiction. — Noblosh
No. Case closed.4. Isn't that such a naive and immature point of view anyway? — Noblosh -
The Pornography Thread
Thanks Nietzsche.I think humans are in a unique position. We're in some kind of transition phase between animals and, what I call, something higher. — TheMadFool -
What are we trying to accomplish, really? Inauthentic decisions, and the likeOh dear Lord in Heaven. *prays* Wait till @TimeLine pops round and sees the word "inauthentic"... I don't even want to imagine the rationally autonomous walls of text that are about to befall us man :P
Your experience does not match the regular human experience. A person generally shoves their clothes in the washing machine, puts in the cleaning liquid, turns it on and goes through the motion without another thought. They don't agonise about it, they don't even think about it. They do it without any thought.
I go take a haircut. Big deal. I don't even think about it. I'm too busy thinking about some philosophical question that interests me, or some business deal I have to do, or how to plan my day to squeeze in the necessary physical exercise or martial arts workout. I'm glad I get to kick back while some guy or girl messes with my hair.
Listen to Professor Trump. Most people think he's an idiot, but he's not that much of an idiot actually:
You know, just being alive quite often is enough for me. Don't have to do something special, but just feel yourself in your body, everything going well man. No problems.
So just do your duty in the world. Why? Well do you want to be a snitch? If you don't, then do your duty. Serve your community, serve God, grow in knowledge, teach others. If you find the right woman maybe you'll have kids. Otherwise you won't. What's the big deal. Stop fretting about it. Maybe I'll never get married. Think I care? Nah - not gonna waste the rest of my days just because of that. -
Do you feel more enriched being a cantankerous argumentative ahole?
That's not bad, he may get a taste of the earth finally! :PA high horse, I'd imagine. — unenlightened -
Do you feel more enriched being a cantankerous argumentative ahole?
Fallin' down from where?There's only so much psychopathology masquerading as badphil one can take. It's better for everyone this way, lest I have a Falling Down moment. — WhiskeyWhiskers -
Post truth
Yeah, give me a shout out when you start making sense please...no, for reasons you had literally just quoted. Keep up. — WhiskeyWhiskers -
The Pornography ThreadI consume plenty of porn, so yeah. — Terrapin Station
So you like it watching the meat hit the plate while you bust them nuts in half no? Cooking is an enjoyable activity afterall ;)
I hope you ain't doing it right now mate! Or did my appetising descriptions entice you to go cook up some food? -
Do you feel more enriched being a cantankerous argumentative ahole?Goodness, no. — TimeLine
Oh good. Now I can safely ignore you when you start talking about rational autonomous agents, and dismiss you for just venting out your frustrations. Cool! (Y)But, ultimately, all virtual environments enable us to escape from reality for a bit and vent our frustrations; — TimeLine -
The Pornography Thread
No, I don't watch it, I hope you can tell me more though >:)You know that a huge percentage of porn is fetish porn, including chubby women, mature women, very average looking women, etc., right? — Terrapin Station -
The Pornography Thread
They will find out man. Kids are very inventive, trust me. If you think you can fool your kids, you're dumb. Kids are always one step ahead of you when it comes to this stuff, because you always underestimate them, while they always overestimate you. They're better prepared.A lot of porn actors' kids probably have no idea what they do for a living. — Terrapin Station
They certainly have better physiques than your average person, otherwise they wouldn't be in porn in the first place, especially the women.A lot of porn actors aren't unusually hot re how they look going about their mundane business. — Terrapin Station -
The Pornography Thread
Of course they do man! Are you kidding me? Most guys probably watch porn by the age of 10 if not even earlier! For example, the first time I watched porn I was ~12 in a computer room - many guys gathered to see the good shit together my dawg >:O And keep in mind that back then technology was very backward. Now, I can't even imagine! They're probably seeing it even when they're 7!(a) kids are watching so much porn that they have a veritable mental catalog of porn actors at their disposal — Terrapin Station
Okay let me tell you how it happens. Some kid will ask "Umm what's ur mommy and daddy doing?!", and you'll answer. If your mommy is a porn actress, then obviously you won't be like "Oh my mommy shags men on camera". You'll say she's something else, like a pilot for example. Soon the news of that will spread. Sooner or later, people will be coming to your house, etc. etc. and realise that your mommy can't be a pilot or whatever you said. Soon they'll start researching, and be extremely curious why you haven't said the truth. Someone will find out, and you'll be fucked.(b) most fellow students know everyone's parents, and — Terrapin Station
Common bro, if there's this absolutely stunning, jaw-dropping girl in your high school or university, what's the first thing you'll do? Research who she is! Maybe she's a model or something, afterall she's too hot! When I was at university that's how one of my friends found out that this girl he wanted to shag had taken nude pictures online. Even though it was under a different name (well nickname really), he still found the pics!(c) most porn actors are very easy to recognize in person — Terrapin Station
Now imagine that you have this smoking hot mom when you are in school. What will kids do? Research who she is, clearly! Name and address will often be enough to find out a lot of details. -
The Pornography Thread
Well mine seems to be going very strong BC, so I'm not sure about that. But then I'm not a fan of TED. I rarely if ever watch TED talks, I actually hate them. I just gave that video since it contains references to scientific literature all in one place that you can check by yourself.Are you aware that watching an excessive number of TED talks will cause your dick to fall off? — Bitter Crank
Yes I remember that. That's the story of the gal who has a stroke and somehow manages to dial a friend in time to save herself. Regardless, that was a physical event that she was recounting. In this case, the lecture is based upon scientific studies, which is exactly why I've linked it. It has a lot of resources in one place.One of my favorite Ted talks, A STROKE OF INSIGHT by Jill Bolte Taylor is really informative and inspiring. — Bitter Crank
Do you have any reason to question any of the science in it?
Well let's see BC, is decreased willpower, numbed pleasure response and sexual hyperreactivity part of those effects you want stuck on your brain? I don't know man, but if that's your cup of coffee, what can I do? ;)So, porn having an effect on the brain is saying no more than riding a bike for 2 hours has an effect on the brain,. — Bitter Crank -
The Pornography ThreadOkay since someone deleted my previous post, I will make a more serious response now.
Number 1. Watching porn is alike watching a gladiator fight, in the sense that in the production of it many people are generally harmed in quite irreversible ways. We can talk about both spiritual/psychological and social harm. For example, someone who has been a porn actor will have a difficult time raising normal children. The kid will go to school, and his mates will be like "Oh wow, your momma sucks it quite well! ;) " - and if the kid is a girl, then she'll be treated like the town bicycle, everyone will want a ride.
So yes - there is quite some pleasure to extract out of watching people do things that you'd never do yourself - whether this is fighting to the death, or shagging in public, or whatever other fantasy you have. Why? Because it's fulfilling your desire, without paying the cost that is normally associated with that fulfilment. Other people - the actors are paying the costs for you. So it's a way of doing things you'd never be able to do in real life. For example, a woman may fantasise about being shagged by 10 guys, but there are some costs associated with that in real life. She's not going to want to go through with that, but she can easily fulfil that fantasy through porn. This is oppression - gaining something at the expense of others.
Number 2. In an age dominated by sexual obsessions, most porn watchers are victims who, once in the cycle, find it hard to escape. It's nice to watch porn. I mean you have so many hot chicks a single click away - you can have variety, you can experiment with different races, different colours, married women, virgins, bisexuals - anything you can imagine! And there's no charge - you know, they don't want you to do anything in return, they don't protest, they start/stop when you dictate, etc. If you are a hedonist, you'd do well to stop dating other women/men, and just get yourself properly into porn my man! You'll achieve more pleasure than you can ever imagine, at no cost! Enough with the chasing women, losing time, etc. Just tune in to the porn!
But - porn keeps you sexually obsessed and doesn't permit you to focus adequately on other things in your life. You will not learn to value and respect other women or men. You will not develop a kind of love that transcends mere sexual expression. Instead you'll become very self-centered, always oriented after your own pleasure.
Number 3. Porn has long-standing effects on the brain, which have been neuro-biologically studied. These are actual structural changes that happen in the brain due to watching porn. Porn leads to:
• Decreased Willpower
• Numbed Pleasure Response
• Sexual Hyper-reactivity
Please do yourself a favour and watch this video:
Since the effects of porn are subtle, people who are addicted to porn (watch it frequently) don't even realise what they're missing out on.
Number 4. From within the life of porn, things look good. You're banging the hottest chicks on the planet, seeing tens of hot, steamy, naked women in minutes, all the while you're flapping that bird like there's no tomorrow! But from without, things look very different. I will allow this Buddhist story to speak for me:
Suppose, Māgandiya, there was a leper with sores and blisters on his limbs, being devoured by worms, scratching the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, cauterising his body over a burning charcoal pit. Then his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, would bring a physician to treat him. The physician would make medicine for him, and by means of that medicine the man would be cured of his leprosy and would become well and happy, independent, master of himself, able to go where he likes. Then he might see another leper with sores and blisters on his limbs, being devoured by worms, scratching the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, cauterising his body over a burning charcoal pit. What do you think, Māgandiya? Would that man envy that leper for his burning charcoal pit or his use of medicine? -
Post truth
Reading is not experience of the world for the simple reason that when you read, you're interacting with second hand information, which may be inaccurate - the respective author may not have perceived fully or completely the matters that he's describing - or if he has, he may have failed to adequately or completely convey them.What's the point with the garbage ad hominem? One can hole oneself up on the arm chair for many years, reading vast amounts of material. If reading is not "experience with the world", then what is "experience with the world", and what advantage is it supposed to give the philosopher? You know that reading gives one access to many other peoples' "experience with the world", don't you? — Metaphysician Undercover
That's why the greatest philosophers in history have been, first and foremost, keen observers of reality, and only secondly readers of philosophy. Take for example Plato, Aristotle, Schopenhauer, Wittgenstein to list a couple. Their insights came not from what they read, but rather from their own observations - that's why they were geniuses, because they perceived deeper than others before them had perceived. Their own insights enabled them - taking for example Schopenhauer - to synthesise Kant, Plato, and Eastern wisdom into something completely new.
What made them special wasn't the breadth of their study, but their perception. So that's why I'm telling you that you seem to have just armchair knowledge. Yes, it seems to me from reading your posts that you are very familiar with Platonic/Aristotelian concepts, but I'm not interested in that. Philosophy isn't just playing with words. I'm interested in actual, practical knowledge that is relevant in the world. So when you get lost in discussing small technicalities and this and that - it seems to me that you're purposefully refusing to see the main insight I'm presenting to you. It's like quibbling over a mathematical truth, because there's a missed step in my proof.
So look - the purpose of philosophy from the very beginning was finding wisdom in order to live the best life possible. The technicalities are superficialities - they are only as useful as they serve that purpose. An armchair philosopher remains stuck in the technicalities and does nothing to advance wisdom or teach the good life. -
Post truth
Why do we need to have laws if morality is the natural condition? To me, the very fact that we have laws and punishments for breaking the law suggests that the human being is not naturally moral, but requires external pressure and force to be kept in check (the law + its enforcement).We have laws which are, for a large part obeyed. — Metaphysician Undercover
A particular language is artificial, but the capacity to speak a language is not artificial. It's natural for human beings to communicate verbally through some sort of language.Don't you believe that language is artificial? — Metaphysician Undercover
Well this has been pretty much settled already. The tabula rasa perspective is nonsense as shown by Plato (anamnesis), Kant, and modern biology. The mind comes with a pre-established neuro-biological structure which determines its capacities, tendencies, and possibilities. I don't much like Pinker, but this book is good on this subject, to put you up to date with some of the modern developments of biology and the social sciences.I think of living beings in terms of actualizing potential, so I am more inclined towards the tabula rasa perspective. I assume an active base of life, not a state. — Metaphysician Undercover
Have you presented to me some opposing statistics and I missed them? :sAs someone who's radically sceptical of everything except what comes out his own mouth, it's pretty obvious you only accept that article as 'fact' because it supports what you already believe. — WhiskeyWhiskers -
Post truth
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Post truth
(Y)"All warfare is based on deception". Sun Tzu (544 - 496 BC).
"In war, truth is the first casualty". Aeschylus (525BC - 456 BC). — jkop -
Post truthI supplied evidence for what I believe.
No, but you should show evidence that human beings are moral. So far, you've provided nothing but empty speculation.So what? Do I have to point out to you every time that a human being acts morally in order to argue that human beings are moral beings? — Metaphysician Undercover
Yes, if you take a stroll down a city street you'll see very few moral acts, and a lot of immoral ones. Whether these are petty immoralities - such cursing a beggar, or bad-mouthing someone - or bigger immoralities such as punching someone in the face. The vast majority of what you'll see though will be neither moral nor immoral behaviour - just people moving around.Take a stroll down a city street and compare how many people are acting morally with how many are acting immorally. Even in a war torn country you'll fid that morality far out weighs immorality. — Metaphysician Undercover
No, it's ridiculous to think communication is unnatural - that's what's ridiculous. If I stop a random man in the street and tell him communication is unnatural he'll laugh in my face. But it seems apparent you have no problem with holding such a dumb idea. As I told you before, you often remind me of the armchair philosopher, who has little experience with the world.So, if you would not expect the majority of human being to be engaged in lying, because lying is unnatural, you would also not expect the majority of human being to be engaged in communication, because communication is unnatural. — Metaphysician Undercover
Yes, it my not prove that lying is natural, but it sure as hell does prove that human beings are immoral in their natural state.The statistics are irrelevant, because even if the statisticians claim that one hundred percent of the people lie, this does not prove that lying is natural. — Metaphysician Undercover
You should stop with the sophistry and focusing on side-issues, and instead concentrate on the focus of this discussion. What is the base state, the natural state, call it however you want to call it - of mankind? And that state is immorality, although human beings also do have, as you say, a desire to be moral. But that desire is often overcome by other desires. -
Post truth
I don't care if it's a learned response or not. Of course everything you do is to some extent learned. That's irrelevant. But some things are "natural". This may be hard to describe what it means. But basically it's what is there for most people. The behaviours/tendencies that are common.lust is not a learned response — Cavacava -
Do you feel more enriched being a cantankerous argumentative ahole?Actually, if that was the case, I think I'd leave the forums, since there would be nothing left to learn no? :P Without conflict there is no progress.
Agustino
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