• Atheism is untenable in the 21st Century
    Christian Existentialist3017amen

    Still in one of the camps whose 'God' can't be shown, regardless of their claims.
  • Atheism is untenable in the 21st Century
    Any takers?3017amen

    Of course atheism and theism are untenable since their 'truths' can't be shown, and it gets worse, though, than indefensible, in that it is the height of intellectual dishonesty to proclaim them. The same for anything else that can't be shown.

    We developed our abilities over a very long time; they weren't just granted to us. I'm not musical, though.
  • An Estimate for no ‘God’
    perhaps it was programmed to evolve gradually over eons, via natural processes.Gnomon

    I think the eternal first cause needs to be simple and operate at a tiny level, as near-nothing, to qualify as fundamental, and of course would still be doing its eternal thing now, such as with the quantum fluctuations at the base point energy level. (They actually call it the zero point energy; however, the energy doesn't seem to be zero.)

    Virtual particles get produced in pairs, probably because the first cause, not able to halt and be still, has to jiggle/divide something into haves that it then has to put back into the base, and so forth, with these two effects always having to both occur, one ever after the other.

    Somehow the pair's virtual particles were driven apart (inflation?) and so became separated and real faster than they could annihilate and return the energy.

    The above is sketchy, but once we have some particles persisting a bit, the real 'programming'/'coding' would be done at each new level, such as quarks coding for protons and neutrons, those then coding for atoms, the atoms coding for molecules, molecules for cells, etc.

    So, rather than all being coded at once, it occurs in stages, at each stable or semi-stable level.

    It's kind of like the way language works. The sentence has its own level of rules and comprehension, as well as still being based on the lower levels of phrases, words, grammar, phonemes, letters, and strokes, and such too for its parts if they need to be attended to at their own level.

    Can't really have a full-blown Programmer just sitting around as First, it never having been put together from even more fundamental parts.

    I apologize for interrupting your threadGnomon

    No problem, but, thanks, actually, for it is about the first response addressing a proposition in the OP.
  • An Estimate for no ‘God’
    6. Existence/capability has no alternative, given that nonexistence has no being as a source and that there is indeed something, and so existence of something/capability is mandatory, there not being any choice to it. It’s a given; no magic required. Still, it could operate almost as what is called ‘God’, except that it’s not a Mind.

    7a. We see that the One of Totality continually transitions/transmutes, never being able to remain as anything particular, which matches its nature supposed due to no information being able to come into the Eternal in the first place that never was, for the One Fundamental Eterne has to be ungenerated and deathless if it is so. But how can there be a finite absolute One with an impossible None outside it?

    7b. Or all could be relative if there are no absolutes, for Totality can’t have anything outside it. So then Totality must be relative to itself.

    7c. Of course, either way, the capability remains, as necessity, with no alternative, without needing any cause for it to be. It is the Ground of Determination — G.O.D. It has no opposite and so it is not remarkable.

    8. Aside from the trivial definition of free will being that without coercion the will is free to operate, and the useless definition of the harmful random will equaling ‘freedom’, the deeper notion of ‘free’ as being original and free of the brain will is of a currency never being able to be stated and cashed in on, leaving ‘determined’ to continue to be the opposite of ‘undetermined’. This stands against a ‘God’.

    While eternalism can’t yet be told apart from presentism, the message from both is of a transient ‘now’, whether pre-determined or determined as it goes along. All hope then, is crushed, both for us and the Great Wheel itself having any potency. This is the great humility; all hubris is gone.

    It is enough, then, that we have the benefit of experiencing and living life well, sometimes, much more so given this modern age, although still with sweat, tears, and aversive substrates of emotions that those of the future might consider to be barbaric. The early days of humankind were horrendous.
  • An Estimate for no ‘God’
    Please only attend to the OP propositions and their continuations directly.
  • Omar Khayyam
    Late Afternoon at the OK Club — Part 4 — The History of All History

    Bodleian 28

    Life’s spirit to the causeless was near blind.
    Quoth I, “If the Beginning you could find—
    The Alif—of word, phrase, and uni-verse,
    Thou needs not the alphabet—All’s been mined.”

    Night is falling and dinner is on the cusp. We take a break from our game of pool, obtain another drink, Houdini’s Vodka Gimlet, from Martin’s bar, and step outside for a moment, and surprisingly hear the following from the night skies:

    “I’m the darkest,” says the Shadow to the Night.
    “No,” says Midnight, “compared to me you’re bright.”
    “You floodlights!” says Starless Space, “Stop your fight.
    The darkest plight is the lack of love’s delight!”

    We look at each other. She relates:

    Days are the cyclic units of time’s pearls—
    Beads worn round in the necklace of the months;
    They distance themselves, like night echoes,
    Into the rosary of the seasons.

    Back inside, Ruby Yacht readies to continues her Cosmic description, naming it ‘The History of All History of Our Universe—From the First Instant Unto the Last.”

    Martin braces himself for the shower of cosmology that is about to spew forth to bare the rafters of the universe’s beginning, middle, and end, and so he raises three glasses in Bodleian toasts to all and especially to Ruby:

    39
    My heart’s blood gleams like a melted ruby,
    The wealth of mine—the gem that flows in me;
    My goblet enshrines my wounded heart’s tears—
    Wine is my soul and the cup my body.

    87
    Bring thy ruby mined, in a crystal thrust,
    The drink that raises one up from the dust,
    For who knows what breezes blow into gales.
    This world is but a passing whirlwind’s gust.

    92
    Rubies from the vine’s mines are melted up,
    As the moon-veil dissolved in the sun’s sup,
    In pearled crystal goblets of the flow;
    Oh, sparkle with life’s essence sweet—thy cup!

    922ltvnobkfzw0gt.jpg

    “The Great Wheel of our universe proceeds very quickly at first. At 1E-36 seconds, in a GUT transition in a hell of a short time, the strong force separates from the electro–weak force, the strong force eventually providing for stability and the weak force for changeability, another great balance. Inflation begins, maybe, as a slow rolling scalar field generates negative pressure, causing an exponential expansion of spacetime. The doubling is of a vacuum energy density of 1E73 tons/cm^3. Quantum fluctuations lock in nearly scale invariant 1E-5 variation in energy density. Here the enigma of the ever immortal is undone and unloosed through its portal.”

    “Or at least inflation is proposed, for nothing else makes sense yet. The galaxies would seem to be the quantum fluctuations writ large across the night sky.”

    She continues, we alternating, “At 1E-34 seconds, inflation quickly ends, the decay of the scalar inflaton field causing reheating. Is this the ‘let there be light moment’? No, photons don’t exist yet, but other massless vector quanta like left and right weak and B-L particles may exist. Things are not well known about this era. You and I are still but a twinkling in the cosmic eye.”

    “What is here now was there in the beginning.”

    “At1E-34 to 1E-8 seconds, in the quark era, there is the quark gluon plasma, and then quarks and perhaps super particles dominate matter content. At 1E-17 to 1E-15 seconds, SUSY breaking occurs when proposed super partners acquire mass with the LSP expected to have a mass of about 10 Tev. In induced gravity models, this is where mass energy first generates the induced gravity field; gravity is born, and we are grounded. “At 1E-10 seconds, there comes the electroweak transition, when the electroweak force, under the action of the Higgs mechanism, breaks symmetry. The photon is born. Standard model particles acquire mass.”

    “Yeah! The photons guide us, as illumination beside us, while the mind whirls round and round, as the ear draws forth the sound, as the eye sees the light, and of the dark the fright. Fear not the proof—it’s the beauty of the truth.”

    (To be continued)
  • An Estimate for no ‘God’
    It just depends how you word it.god must be atheist

    It's also whatever people do to weigh the balance either way with their guestimations. I don't think we need to sidetrack into math, set theory, probability theory, and truth tables. We have to estimate about what can't be known for sure.
  • An Estimate for no ‘God’
    consciousness3017amen

    wonderment3017amen

    We are naturally curious and so we are now in the process of asking nature about this complex feat accomplished over a long time. Once there was little or no consciousness in creatures and now it is full blown in us. Since, as in all developments, it wasn't instant, this stands against an All-Might doing it.

    This leaves us but with the prospect of a Deity with only the means to start something going that might be workable, it stuttering along through five near extinctions unto our precarious present condition tottering upon a sixth possible extinction from a four degree centigrade global warming rise projected.

    5a. It’s still that the religious might then suppose a ‘God’ Deity who is like a scientist who throws a bunch of stuff together that is balanced and energetically reactive enough, but not too much so that it races along too fast, etc., to make for something livable coming out of it, but, again, really, what is a fully formed person-like being doing sitting around beforehand, this also being all the more of a quandary that ever enlarges the question rather than answering it.

    5b. But, if it is supposed that life has to come from a Larger Life, then a regress ensues, making this not to be a good template. As for a Deity trying to put workable stuff together, this is much like the idea of a multiverse. We continue to estimate no 'God'.
  • Deficiencies of Atheism
    trying to disprove an existing God (that's a space for emprical questions and answers)TheWillowOfDarkness

    Time for my new thread showing not a disproof but an unlikeliness of 'God'.

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/6817/an-estimate-for-no-god
  • Deficiencies of Atheism
    'flat earth' nor 'no flat earth'Banno

    Yes, agnostic on this and all else, thus only probability estimates remain, which may be higher for non invisibles.
  • Deficiencies of Atheism
    It is evident that since neither 'God' nor 'no God' can be shown for thee sure satisfaction of all, the positions of both atheism and theism are indefensible and are thus intellectually dishonest as surety claims, leaving all to have to be truly agnostic, with leanings either way based but on observatonal probability.
  • For a set of ideas to be viewed as either a religion or a philosophy
    Religion is a 'philosophy' with all the questions left out.
  • A transition from Agnosticism to Gnosticism.
    on the basis that all individual particulars contingent, manifold, and subject to decay.Wayfarer

    That's fine for their temporary existence as penultimates from some Existent capability.
  • Does Jesus/Yahweh love us or is he stalking us?
    Yes. A God so devoted to watching humanity must be terribly bored, unless peculiarly obsessed by us. In either case, a sad, strange figure.Ciceronianus the White

    We are God's streaming soap opera reality show.
  • A transition from Agnosticism to Gnosticism.
    7'th propositionWallows

    One cannot speak well about ever invisible unknowns, and so it can't amount to anything and rather becomes a waste of silence, but if it grants comfort then it's fine for one's living choice.

    higher esoteric realm.Wallows

    Although Existence is necessity and thus natural, requiring no magic for it to be, it's still the eternal basis of our existence and so there is an awe about it, as the source of us and nature.
  • The Trinity
    1. The concept of the trinity is logically impossible3017amen

    It doesn't matter, really, as it is not surly established and is already once removed from its base upon a 'God' that isn't established either, as an unknown, for then only the idle chatter of nebulous abstracts of word salads pour forth… even from Newton.

    2. The nature of our existence remains unexplained3017amen

    Cosmic and biological evolution noted over 14 billion years satisfies this.

    3. The integer of consciousness and subconsciousness is logically impossible3017amen

    4. The nature of our consciousness is unexplained3017amen

    We're not able to inspect the first person private aspect from a public view. Yet, nature made it, as in (2).

    HALLEY, NEWTON, AND HOOKE

    Halley was a sea captain, a cartographer, a professor
    Of geometry, a deputy of the Royal Mint, an astronomer,
    And the inventor of the deep-sea diving bell,
    And wrote some on magnetism, tides,
    Planet motions, and fondly on opium.

    He invented the weather map and actuarial table ages,
    Even proposed methods to work out the Earth’s old age,
    Its distance from the sun, even how to keep fresh fish,
    But one thing he didn’t do was to discover Halley’s comet,
    For he merely noted that it was yet another return of it.

    He made a wager with Robert Hooke, the cell describer,
    And with the great and stately Christopher Wren:
    They bet upon why the planets’ orbit were ellipses.

    Hooke, a known credit-taker,
    Claimed he’d solved the problem,
    But had to conceal it
    So that others could yet know the satisfaction.

    Well, Halley became consumed with finding the answer,
    So he called upon the Lucasian Mathematics Professor.
    Isaac Newton was indeed brilliant beyond measure,
    But was solitary, joyless, paranoid—no pleasure.

    Once he had inserted a needle in his eye and poked around,
    Far inserting the bodkin between the eye and the bone.
    Another time, he’d stared at the sun for so very long
    That he had to spend many days in a darkened room.

    Frustrated by mathematics, Isaac invented the calculus,
    And then for twenty-seven years kept it hidden from us.
    Likewise, he did the same with the understanding of light
    And spectroscopy, keeping it for thirty years in the dark.

    For Newton,
    Science was but a partial part of his life’s routes,
    For much of his time
    Was given to alchemy and religious pursuits.

    He was wholeheartedly devoted
    To the religion of Arianism,
    Whose main tenet was
    That there could be no Holy Trinity.

    Ironically, he worked as a Professor at Trinity College,
    The only one there who was not Anglican.

    He also spent an inordinate amount of time studying
    The floor plan of the lost temple of Solomon the King,
    Even learning Hebrew, the better to scan the texts.

    Another single minded quest was
    To turn base metals into precious ones,
    His papers revealing this preoccupation
    Over optics and planetary motions and such mentations.

    Well, Halley asked Newton what the curve would be
    If the planets’ attraction toward the sun was
    The reciprocal to the square of their distance from it.
    Newton promptly answered, of course, an “ellipse”.

    Not finding his calculations of it, Newton not only rewrote it,
    But retired for two years to produce his master work,
    The Plilosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica.

    To Halley’s horror,
    Newton refused to release the crucial third volume,
    Without which the first two would make little sense.
    There had been a dispute between Newton and Hooke
    Over the priority of the inverse square law in the book.

    That solved by Halley’s diplomacy, the Royal Society
    Had pulled out from the publication, failing financially,
    For, the year before, there had been a very costly flop
    Called The History of Fishes; so, Halley himself popped
    The funds for the publication out of his own pocket.

    Newton contributed nothing,
    As usual, and, to make matters worse,
    Halley had just taken a position as the society’s clerk,
    They failing to pay the promised 50 pounds to his purse,
    Paying him only with very many copies of
    The History of Fishes!
  • The Trinity
    Anywho, to that end regarding the last point about the mystery of existence3017amen

    Well, we have to mention the Trinity to stay on topic. Newton spent much of his life railing against the Trinity. Ironically, he worked at Trinity College. OK, that's done.

    Existence isn't a mystery, since it has no alternative; it has to be, with no option not to be.
  • The Trinity
    how is it that we are able to produce unresolved paradox's like those 2 statements above.3017amen

    They misleadingly stated unpredictables as fact.

    we don't know why a lot of things in nature exist3017amen

    Existence had no alternative and so what is here now was inherent.
  • The Trinity
    So in that sense, since we have these unexplained things happening, why is it such a leap to conclude that the supernatural exists?3017amen

    Because then that answer becomes all the more explained and so then a higher explanation is needed, over the lesser one, and so forth. So, perhaps the simple is First, with complexity becoming later on.
  • Aquinas, Hume, and the Cosmological Argument
    Ok, our work is done here3017amen

    The fat lady didn't sing yet.

    But really how it turned out…

    Myth-Takes of Unconditional Love
    And the freedom to be from the Above
    And Goodness didn't fill human natura—
    Our follies broadcast His soap opera.
  • Aquinas, Hume, and the Cosmological Argument
    Energy is not lost3017amen

    I’m the All and the One, present-Omni,
    For I’m eternal and can neither be
    Created nor destroyed, having not a cause,
    As the Ground of All—I am Energy.
  • Aquinas, Hume, and the Cosmological Argument
    The being of God does not exclude but rather includes the being of the world"3017amen

    We are 'God' stuff or 'God' thoughts!

    In other news,

    ‘God’ changed His mind, so it would work better,
    From err of His deluge wet and wetter,
    Ne’er to kill again by water His kin,
    Plus gave Redemption from Original Sin.

    versus

    ‘God’ is unchanging, as ever Perfect,
    Knowing and Being all with no defect,
    As in all at once and everywhere,
    His Self mirrored in us as a Reflect.

    but either way or dipolar both,

    Reflections of ‘God’ we would have to be,
    As the very thoughts imagined in He—
    Naught else could exist independently;
    This One Effect runs continuously.
  • Aquinas, Hume, and the Cosmological Argument
    But dynamic states through time3017amen

    A changing 'God' changing/creating events in time, as a presentist 'God', is not at all preferred by deep believers over a timeless eternalist 'God'. But what the bleep do they know?
  • Aquinas, Hume, and the Cosmological Argument
    Yo PoeticU, where you been brother, ha !3017amen

    I was/am a poem in stone in my parentheses as a tube-worm in the slab of timeless eternity, traversing from a fetus to a corpse through the 4D Block of God's Static Realm that simply is.
  • The Problem of Evil & Freewill
    If what you describe as "evil" is required to prevent extinction, then it IS something that we ought to do. So by definition, it is NOT evil.ZhouBoTong

    Kind of like a natural evil of necessity; thus, we survived not in spite of our evil and. violence but because of it. Even our cooperation was for a better hunt and kill.
  • The Trinity
    Holy SpiritRelativist

    Bless your soul with tongues of fire; Holy Spirit burn;
    Leave no trace of man’s desire; Holy Spirit turn.
    Oh, man, why detest thy constitution;
    Doth thou think Nature has a lot to learn?

    So Nature got it wrong, the pious say,
    In man’s constitution, erring its essay,
    Granting so many ways to go astray.
    Well, then, Who, do they say, penned this world’s play?
  • Aquinas, Hume, and the Cosmological Argument
    The universe might exist supernaturally, beyond any sense of causation (or time).3017amen

    This is the other meaning of 'eternal', as timeless and causeless, with no definition/information being able to go into it.

    Why the heck do we exist here on Earth?
    What mysterious origin gave birth?
    What purpose the madness amid the mirth?
    Why the heck would a Person be the first?

    The invisibility disorder spreads;
    “Might be’s” and “maybe’s” clog the fora threads,
    Naturally, from meaning’s search in heads,
    Ever trying to raise ‘God’ from the dead.

    God’s not an ‘answer’ but begs the question,
    (fill in the rest?)
  • The Trinity
    the three entitiesJacob-B

    ‘God’, Divine Human, and Spirit, to boot,
    All structured on wishes—what a hoot!
    Angels added, too, and Devils haunting.
    All as supposed, so, their doings are moot.
  • The Problem of Evil & Freewill
    problem of evilTheMadFool

    Oh, where is the Loving One, the All-Might?
    Why just the power of what natures does?
    What benevolence makes for living in fright?
    Where’s the Knowing of His Is and ne’er was?
  • Adam Eve and the unjust punishment
    is God immoral?LNH

    Maybe this, maybe that, of a ‘God’,
    On and on, of worn ideas long trod,
    Trying to show nature’s not what it does,
    Spouting this and that—dust into the sod.
  • Man created "God" in the beginning
    finalisation remains out of the questionDaniel C

    ‘God’ can’t be shown such that all would believe—
    It’s all idle chatter that hopes conceive,
    A blah, blah of what can’t even be preached,
    Honestly, without a shred to retrieve.
  • Adam Eve and the unjust punishment
    According to the Book, Adam and Eve were punished with mortality and other ugly stuff after they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.TheMadFool

    What really happened…

    Deciphered From Dead Sea Scroll: از کجا نمادهای فلور

    With flora mystical and magical,
    Eden’s botanical garden was blest,
    So Eve, taking more than just the Apple,
    Plucked off the loveliest of the best.

    Thus it’s to Eve that we must give our thanks,
    For Earth’s variety of fruits and plants,
    For when she was out of Paradise thrown,
    She stole all the flowers we’ve ever known.

    Therewith, through sensuous beauty and grace,
    Eve with Adam brought forth the human race,
    But our world would never have come to be,
    Had not God allowed them His mystery.

    When they were banished from His bosom,
    Eve saw more than just the Apple Blossom,
    And took, on her way through Eden’s bowers,
    Many wondrous plants and fruitful flowers.

    Mighty God, upon seeing this great theft,
    At first was angered, but soon smiled and wept,
    For human nature was made in His name—
    So He had no one but Himself to blame!

    Yet still He made ready His thunderbolt,
    As His Old Testament wrath cast its vote
    To end this experiment gone so wrong—
    But then He felt the joy of life’s new song.

    Eve had all the plants that she could carry;
    God in His wisdom grew uncontrary.
    Out of Eden she waved the flowered wands,
    The seeds spilling upon the barren lands.

    God held the lightning bolt already lit,
    No longer knowing what to do with it,
    So He threw it into the heart of Hell,
    Forming of it a place where all was well.

    Thus the world from molten fire had birth,
    As Hell faded and was turned into Earth.
    This He gave to Adam and Eve, with love,
    For them and theirs to make a Heaven of.

    From His bolt grew the Hawthorn and Bluebell,
    And He be damned, for Eve stole these as well!
    So He laughed and pretended not to see,
    Retreating into eternity.

    ‘So be it,’ He said, when time was young,
    ‘That such is the life My design has wrung,
    For in their souls some part of Me has sprung—
    So let them enjoy all the songs I’ve sung.

    ‘Life was much too easy in Paradise,
    And lacked therefore of any real meaning,
    For without the lows there can be no highs—
    All that remains is a dull flat feeling!

    ‘There’s no Devil to blame for their great zest—
    This mix of good and bad makes them best!
    The human nature that makes them survive,
    Also lets them feel very much alive.

    ‘That same beastful soul that makes them glad
    Does also make them seem a little bad.
    If only I could strip the wrong from right,
    But I cannot have the day without the night!’

    So it was that with fertile delight Eve
    Seeded the lifeless Earth for us to receive.
    Though many flowers she had to leave behind,
    Most we have from the Mother of Mankind.

    … (flower lore and legend descriptions) …
  • Ethics and Knowledge, God
    to make God goodTheMadFool

    God, alone in His Power, had no fun,
    So He made Sapiens out of His One,
    Our image reflecting His Love’s Knowing,
    As His mirror of Divine Perfection.

    Eden’s fresh market carried everything;
    The shiny red apples called from the Tree,
    “Touch me, take me, eat me”, and soon trouble
    Was at hand although it was crispy, sweet.

    Eden’s sinful Apple, causing our shit,
    Made for harsh apple cider, but when it
    Was heated with sulfurous brimstone it
    Soon turned smooth, the Hell taken out of it!

    I found the Garden in the Amazon’s heart,
    Wherein lie massive fields of Lady’s Slippers
    And all of the rare flowers of Paradise…
    And there I put the apple back on the tree.
  • God. The Paradox of Excess
    Omnibenevolent, Omniscient and OmnipotentTheMadFool

    GXO
    XOX
    OXD
  • Metaphysics - what is it?
    everything is changing, there is no rest, or what "is". in any absolute sense.Metaphysician Undercover

    This is noted, as nothing particular can last for more than an instant. With no absolute, we no longer have to figure how a permanent unchanging thing can change. So, then there are no things, just events, some of them very long, such as a rock or a proton.
  • Existence is relative, not absolute.
    'absolute existence'fresco

    Yet, for Relative Totality, there is neither an Absolute Existence nor an Absolute NonExistence, leaving but a relative in-between, as relative to neither or as relative to both, but what could that mean?

    Absolute Totality vs. Relative Totality
    None isn’t ‘outside’ nor can be in here,
    Nor can Finite One be, with None outside;
    Thus, there is no absolute One or None,
    Which forces a relative ‘in-between’.

    ‘One’ as an Absolute Totality Fails Even More
    Thus, we can’t step into what isn’t there,
    Nor can a One expand into a None,
    Nor can there be spacers of None
    Within the arena of a One.
  • Existence is relative, not absolute.
    every assertion evokes its negation.fresco

    If there isn't anything absolute, then we are relieved of an unmakable, unbreakable eternal substance, and onto to the conclusion that all is temporary, without anything permanent, except change.

    Once a virtual particle is created it would have to change because the effects required for it to be created as it is, creates other effects that must destroy it, as a closure that makes for compositional parity. Absolutes wouldn't follow those rules. Quantum fields cannot be zero, for that is a definite state and disallowed, so there is fluctuation/change.

    Apparently, neither complete vacuity nor total solidity can be, leaving the indefinitness of the quantum uncertainty type or random outputs without inputs to result from the limit of the unreachable two nonexistent absolutes of None and One. I conclude that relatively the universe exists, but absolutely it doesn't.

    Thus, a temporary reality ever becomes and then ever gets erased, somehow, as kind of akin to a faux presentism, given no absolutes. 'Light' is some kind of a clue, since from its viewpoint 'space' shrinks to a point and time does not pass. Somehow, 'light' gets slowed down from its pure all-at-oncesness of no time and its everywhereness of no space to broadcast a temporary reality of a here and a now.
  • Omar Khayyam
    I add, “A quark-gluon plasma comes forth, later, which had to cool off during 380,000 years of opaqueness, which we cannot penetrate yet, but hope to do via its gravity waves, after which time there came light, with photons, protons, and the first few, simple atomic elements, unto stars and supernova making the rest, then molecules, which luckily are neither inclined to form or to stay together after, RNA/DNA, cells, organisms, brains, consciousness…., this ‘life’ seeming as a kind of ‘afterthought. Sorry, I’m getting too far ahead.”

    zueukzj5wjor0nga.gif

    (Click.)

    Ruby looks up, as if through the ceiling and up to the stars, remarking, “I’ve come such a long way to be here, with you, but our possibility was there in the beginning, although spread all over.

    “The Planck era at 1E-43 seconds was the first hint of us, as a cyclical compactfication or a vacuum fluctuation eruption in an indefinite realm that’s as close to Nothing as can be, but it can’t be a Nothing as such, since that would be a definite, whereas the vacuum as the basic quantum something must be fuzzy, uncaused, and undirected, matching that which we often note in the quantum realm. Apparently, motion can’t cease, for energy cannot be destroyed.”

    “I’ll knock Stillness off of the list of what can be, as being a kind of a cousin of ‘Nothing’, which we’ve already banished, along with ultimate Beginnings and Ends, plus Infinity, because it can’t be capped and so it cannot be had all at once or ever, since one can always add to it; it never completes, and that is more toward its meaning, not a meaning that it is a number or an amount. I’ll add ‘random’ as probably requiring a fundamental level or the quantum level, and as dubious otherwise, as it’s mostly evened out at the macroscopic level.”

    “So, Austin, to learn the Secrets of what IS and ever WAS, we must again brave the crypt and ghost of cause, as the causeless. The so-called quantum foam seems to be ever and always, remaining even now, and it still has pairs of virtual particles quick appearing and then annihilating and disappearing, as a kind of ‘noise’, during which events time still passes without any useful change overall, as the noise may not often produce something that lasts a bit or more.”

    “Indeed, I answer, “The virtuals are ‘somethings’, or ‘sum-things’, as one might call them as of possibility or potential, but have not yet a true, meaningful existence until they become part of an information process and thus are able persist in their effects and go forward somewhat or greatly. This state has always been, and must be, so jot: that this All is ever here to be, since nothing cannot. We philosophers love to fathom the cryptic, where perhaps only the shade of substance slept with arithmetic, although the descriptions in physics are very amenable to math.

    “There is a basic lightness of elemental being because anything more would have to be of parts, and thus beyond the fundamental arts. Bits of information need to be separated to operate, maybe, perhaps manifesting by ‘creating’ a Planck sized piece of space. Maybe we experience their separation as space. The bits can have relative relationships, which is a must, there being nothing outside or before the All, such as absolute rulers or clocks. Time evolves as relations form, all of them having to be relative. Mass, energy, and information have been shown to be equivalent.”

    “So, then, where the causeless reigns supreme, the spark nursed by embers is the first that the universe remembers, as it fires toward the other members in a processing way. The opposite twins are as virtual pairs that rule the causing call, these positives and negatives constituting most of the All.”

    “Yes, I’ve often thought of the many opposite states appearing in nature, such as matter and antimatter, left and right, up and down, the polarity of charge, on/off, and many more, as a near zero-sum equation.”

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    (Click.)

    (to be continued)

PoeticUniverse

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