• Thomas Ligotti's Poetic Review of Human Consciousness
    I also think that people gravitate towards arguments that support their preferences. These arguments can certainly be debated and explored. I think this is about all we have - a conversation that coalesces around personal experience, preferences and the values and beliefs which result from these.Tom Storm
    :up: :up:

    Yeah, reasoning be damned. Unfortunately, even tragicomically, your insight is quite true.

    Happy warrior! :strong:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    I might have read this out of context
    Is it psychologically uncomfortable for you to ponder that soon Trump could be president again?L'éléphant
    and surmised that you believe it's more likely than not that Biden will lose the 2024 election. My mistake.

    if one believes the current president might not be president next time, things happen. Simple. He could suddenly keel over, for exampleL'éléphant
    IMO, it's merely wishful thinking to believe that the eight year losing trend of 'suppressing minority voters, misogynist anti-choice, The Big Lie propagandizing' Republican candidates will not be reversed merely by Biden dropping out of the presidential race. Like 2020, most likely voters still oppose Insurrection/Criminal Defendent/Rapist-Defamer/Fraudster-1 rather than support President Biden.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Why do you believe Biden will lose to a candidate he's already beaten once who has done everything since 2020 to shrink his electoral minority base of support and has not increased it (as well as lead the MAGA-GOP to lose almost every popular vote in general, off-year, midterm & special elections from 2016 to 2023 – AFAIK the most sustained losing streak in US electoral history)?

    :mask:

    Naw, he's just a fleshy manifestation of the American Nightmare.Vera Mont
    :love:
  • TPF Quote Cabinet
    All true emancipatory politics has to have a universal dimension in it. It doesn't mean you renounce your particularity, but you somehow read your particularity as a sign of what is wrong in our universality itself. — Slavoj Žižek
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    [T]ell me how misinformed I am.schopenhauer1
    Well if you really want to be learn for yourself how misinformed you are ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/876624
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    Look, I know he is a philosophical hero of yours, so me maligning might hit a nerve with you.schopenhauer1
    :roll: Again, you should know what you're talking about, schop. As I've posted probably hundreds of times on TPF, (if anything more than a freethinker) I'm an Epicurean-Spinozist and haven't been a Nietzsche fanboy since the 1980s. That your statements about N are ignorant, not that they are "maligning", call for a response. I'd do the same if you or anyone spouted uninformed nonsense about e.g. Heidegger or Derrida both of whom I loathe.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Btw, the J6 Conspiracy criminal trial in Wash. DC will conclude with a guilty verdict on all 4 felony counts by the end of August 2024 or sooner. I'm guessing (soon to be) Felon-1 will not be the GOP candidate by the Fall (or even by July).180 Proof

    "You know, we've got a lot of theories, we just don't have the evidence."
    ~Rudy Giuliani, Co-Conspirator-1

    "You gotta be kidding ... This is the clown show!" ~Rusty Bowers, former Arizona Speaker of the House of Representatives & Trump supporter
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    I'm not here to "convince" you of anything, schop, just challenge (analyze) claims – expose nonsense, poor reasoning, falsity – and explore (untangle) complex ideas from which we both might learn something insightful in a dialectical exchange. Don't be lazy, man, know what you're talking about; there is no shame in "I don't know" or being attentively silent. :chin:
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    Perhaps I misunderstand something, but Nietzsche seems at odds with himself. He seems to believe in the "overcoming" of oneself, and the embracing of Suffering in some aesthetic appeal to the Ubermensch who thrives on pain in the idea of manifesting one's own values (power) into the world.schopenhauer1
    :sweat: Yes, you're misunderstanding N completely – put down your dog-earred old copy of Nietzsche for Dummies, schop, and carefully read some of N's books (from The Gay Science onward).
  • How Different Are Theism and Atheism as a Starting Point for Philosophy and Ethics?
    Any idea what the "substance" meant in Spinoza? Could it be Aristotelian? Or something else?Corvus
    Spinoza's conception of substance is derived from – and, in his mind, critically corrects – Aristotle's / Descartes' "idea of substance". For instance, there is necessarily one substance argues Spinoza – thus, acosmisn – rather than many / two substances.
    I understand Spinoza to be (mostly) an acosmist (for whom the cosmos exists though it is not real, only "divinity" (re: the logico-mathematical structure of the cosmos) is real ...)180 Proof
    Simply put, Spinoza's "substance means" 'natura naturans (i.e. reality (which, as he points out, most traditions and his contempories superstitiously called "God")) as distinct from natura naturata (i.e. existents/things)'.

    Again, read Spinoza's Ethics or the SEP article:

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNatu

    *

    Anyway, back to the OP's topic (as I understand it) which is the foreground of this thread discussion:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/875902
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    :mask: 30Jan24 predictions:

    • US courts will deny that a president or former president has "absolutely immunity" from criminal prosecution.

    • By March/April, SCOTUS will uphold the "states' rights" to individually decide whether or not to disqualify Insurrectionist/Criminal-Defendent/Rapist-Defamer/Fraudster-1 from appearing on the 2024 federal election ballot pursuant to the 14th Amendment, Sec. 3 (Insurrection Clause) of the US Consitution.

    • By 31Jan24, the Trump Org will be effectively dissolved in NY State by order of Justice Engoron and no less than $300 million USD (re: "ill-gotten gains") will be disgorged as well as Fraudster-1 (maybe Beavis & Butthead too) will be barred for life from the real estate industry in NY State. NB: Liquidations to commence soon in order to put up a $300 million or more cash bond that's required by law to Appeal the civil judgment – Loser-1 clearly isn't that liquid (thanks, Ms. Carroll! :clap: :kiss: :flower: Loser-1 also has to put up a total of $88.3 million in order to Appeal both her judgements too) – otherwise, without that combined half-billion in cash (USD), the collection agencies for NYS will slap enforceable liens on all defendents' personal & real properties asap and savage TF out of them like piranha. :wink: :party:

    • As of 1Feb24 the "great business man" will be, in effect, cash poor whining squatting & shitting his old man diapers on a pile of fire-sale depreciating assets & compounding civil lawsuit debts ... So suddenly the upcoming GOP primary races are going to look pretty shaky even to the RNC, GOP senators & even a larger share of GOP-MAGA voters who might just stay home allowing Nikki Haley to be competitive in SC, etc.

    • Btw, the J6 Conspiracy criminal trial in Wash. DC will conclude with a guilty verdict on all 4 felony counts by the end of August 2024 or sooner. I'm guessing (soon to be) Felon-1 will not be the GOP candidate by the Fall (or even by July).
  • What are you listening to right now?
    Shred Zeppelin :cool:


    "When the Levee Breaks" & "For What It's Worth (Stop, Hey What's That Sound)" (8:56)
    Live @ The R'n'R HoF 1995
    writers M. Minnie '29 & LedZep, 1971
    writers Stephen Stills, 1966
    performers LedZep, ft Neil Young (headbangin' like a grand mal and DGAF – grunge on, Old Man!) & R. Plant on guitar :lol:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    Living through a genocide happening before our eyes, with 10000+ children dead, and yet apologists think this time it’s an exception.

    History will view them poorly
    Mikie
    :up: :up:

    Why didn't the ICJ demand a cease-fire?RogueAI
    C'mon, the ICJ issued a report that's only preliminary and is not a UN policy-making agency.
  • The Eye Seeking the I
    How is it I could be a mind that cannot know what a mind really is?Fire Ologist
    It seems to me that just as an eye does not appear within its own visual field, a hand cannot grasp itself, and willing does not will what it wills ... "mind" is necessarily transparent to itself in order to mind – attend to – nonmind (which includes, among all other ideas, also the idea of "mind"); thus, "being a mind" is functionally perspectival.
  • How Different Are Theism and Atheism as a Starting Point for Philosophy and Ethics?
    Does it mean then, Spinoza was an atheist?Corvus
    The 18th century romantic poet-philosopher Novalis referred to Spinoza as "a God-intoxicated man" because, when closely read, Spinoza's Ethics expressed a sort of religious nontheism (or rational mysticism) rather than mere "atheism". Like S. Maimon, JG Fichte, GWF Hegel et al, I understand Spinoza to be (mostly) an acosmist (for whom the cosmos exists though it is not real, only divinity (re: the logico-mathematical structure of the cosmos) is real instead.

    Perhaps would it be the reason why he had been excommunicated from his religious authorities?
    AFAIK, it was more likely Spinoza's irrefutably rationalist critiques of the Torah specifically and sectarian Judaism broadly, not any explicit statement of "atheism", that brought down the cherem upon him.

    In that case, what is Spinoza's definition of God or reason for non-existing God?
    If my previous post is not clear enough, then you ought to either read Spinoza's Ethics, part one "Of God" or, at least, read this summary

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNatu

    How does he explain the physical world we live in, souls and the meaning of human life?
    Again, Corvus, read the Ethics or this article

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/
  • How Different Are Theism and Atheism as a Starting Point for Philosophy and Ethics?
    Could it be Spinoza?Corvus
    No. Simply put, Spinoza argues that nature (i.e. infinite & eternal (i.e. completely immanent) substance) excludes the existence of a 'transcendent, supernatural person' (e.g. the God of Abraham, the OOO-deity of theology, etc). Thus for most Spinozists, nature itself counts as strong evidence against all forms of theism (& deism (except maybe pandeism)).
  • How Different Are Theism and Atheism as a Starting Point for Philosophy and Ethics?
    I am asking to what extent does the existence of 'God', or lack of existence have upon philosophical thinking.Jack Cummins
    :fire:

    Deus, sive natura (i.e. reality is impersonal à la "Brahman" or "Dao")

    ergo

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/875902

    ergo

    Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo
    (i.e. personality is ephemeral à la "anicca, anatta" or "wu wei")

    :death: :flower:
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    Nothing about eternal return or the ubermensch rings true for me.schopenhauer1
    That's okay, Last Man ... :smirk:

    From an old thread Schopenhauer on suffering and the vanity of existence...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/529871

    What do you want me to say?
    Nothing we ain't eternally said before.
  • How Different Are Theism and Atheism as a Starting Point for Philosophy and Ethics?
    Ideas for and against God, which involve philosophy and theology, are a starting point for thinking about the nature of 'reality' and as a basis for moral thinking.Jack Cummins
    In my case, the 'g/G-question' affects my 'philosophical thinking' as follows: p-naturalism² (i.e. anti-supernaturalism, anti-antirealism, anti-immaterialism) follows from my atheism¹; and then following from p-naturalism² is my existential commitment to moral naturalism³ in the form of aretaic disutilitarianism⁴ (i.e. virtues –'habits – developed daily by anticipating, preventing & reducing suffering (i.e. personal harms, social injustices)).

    addendum to:
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/875881
  • How May the Idea and Nature of 'Despair' be Understood Philosophically?
    I hope things work out better for you soon and more so as the new year unfolds, Jack. I've struggled with health problems and financial losses much more and persistently since 2020 than I ever have in my adult life. Despair and I are old dance partners often switching-up who leads whom. Humbled by this ordeal, my meditation on 'courage' up-thread is not an empty boast of false bravado or posturing machismo. I'm still breathing because of 'courage' as a first principle (e.g. Sisyphusean spite ...) and apparently, in your own way, Jack, you are as well.

    The idea of nihilism ...Jack Cummins
    "... is as dead as God." ~T. Ligotti :fire:

    IME, contemplating – lucidiry of – the absurd is preferable to – healthier than – "nihilism".
  • How Different Are Theism and Atheism as a Starting Point for Philosophy and Ethics?
    If god doesn't exist, then it's business as usual. Philosophical thinking thrives on argument.jkop
    :up: :up:

    Ethics do not depend upon a transcendent lawgiver but are based on the pragmatic need to live harmoniously with others.Janus
    :100:

    , I am asking to what extent does the existence of 'God', or lack of existence have upon philosophical thinking.Jack Cummins
    As an axiom, or first principle, ~G/G is definitive; however, as a conclusion, ~G/G is merely suppositional.

    ... what does the idea of 'God' signify in itself?
    Absolute power in every way.

    However, in this thread discussion, what I am asking is about materialism as being compatible with atheism, or idealism with a belief in some kind of 'spiritual reality'?Jack Cummins
    Atheism is compatible with either materialism or idealism as well as with "a belief in spiritual reality".

    Does the stripping back of ideas, and ideals, especially in terms of the philosophy of realism lead to the most objective understanding of the existential conundrums of human existence?
    Maybe. I don't know. I suspect "ideas and ideals" are (mostly) degrees of "understanding" "existential conundrums".

    Where does materialism, idealism or philosophies of non dualism lead in the search to put such ideas together in the most synthetic and meaningful ways?
    I don't think any of these disparate "ideas" are attempts to unify, or synthesize, them with each other (or all other "ideas").

    So, I would ask how does an underlying assumption of theism [or] atheism result in an underlying philosoph[ical] viewpoint for living, including ethics, and a wider understanding of the purpose and ends of human life?Jack Cummins
    It seems that theism is consistent with a teleological, or essentialist, conception of life that is, in part, derived from 'divine command theory' which atheism rejects.

    I wonder to what extent if God does not exist, if as Dosteovosky asks, whether everything is permitted?Jack Cummins
    IIRC, Camus supposes, however, "this does not mean that nothing is forbidden."

    *

    Posts from an old thread of yours Jack "What Does It Mean, Philosophically, to Argue God Does or Does Not Exist?"

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/734883

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/734817

    Another post from your older thread "Are science and religion compatible, or oppositional philosophical approaches?"

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/541625
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    I still hope for a moderate candidate to arise from the quagmire in which we wallow.jgill
    Any more "moderate" than Biden would be useless, a complete corporate tool. I'm hoping for (at least) a solid left-liberal like Gov. Newsom or Gov. Witmer if Biden drops out.

    ... aka "FOX Noise Pollution" :mask:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    I despise the far leftjgill
    With all due respect, sir, if you believe Biden in anyway represents "the far left" (i.e. to the left of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi, Ralph Nader, et al), then you've not been paying attention for the last half century to Biden's political career.

    And I despise both Biden and Trump equally.
    So in your mind, woke corporate welfare-statism IS JUST AS BAD FOR YOUR COUNTRY AS autocratic ethnonational populism? Biden the neoliberal EQUALS Trump the neofascist?

    (I guess, jgill, it's reasonable to assume, based on your reply, that in sum your answers to my previous post are: yes, yes, & difference in degree.)

    I practice harm minimisation in politics. Clearly some options are far worse than others, even if the less worse is still fundamentally flawed.Tom Storm
    :up: :up:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    I despise the two candidates.jgill
    Do you equally "despise" what Biden & Trump represent? Are their respective parties (coalitions) equally bad for the majority of communities in the US or equally detrimental to US interests vis-à-vis international relations (e.g. trade agreements, political treaties, strategic alliances)? Do you believe, jgill, the adverse difference between them is one of degree or a difference in kind? :chin:
  • Absential Materialism
    So, there is no category of apriori facts?
    @Wayfarer

    "A priori facts" as far as I can tell are generalizations derived from experience. They cannot be discovered in the first place without concrete experience
    Janus
    :up:

    (i.e. ideality is merely abstracted from materiality)

    If a mind can know neither itself nor its thoughts, how can you call it a mind?ucarr
    :smirk:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    The ICJ's preliminary report:

    https://www.dw.com/en/un-court-ruling-on-gaza-hard-to-ignore-for-israels-allies/a-68099139

    :up:

    also this:

    I've never been a fan of the NYTimes' (elite opinion) columnist Thomas Friedman, but can any of TPF's resident Israel/Netanyahu regime apologists @Rogue AI @schopenhauer1 @tim wood @BitconnectCarlos ... explain where Friedman's 'analysis' goes wrong? :chin:

  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    It has been said that all of today’s philosophy is built on Kant. I would add that all of postmodernist philosophy is built on [deliberately misreading] Nietzsche.Joshs
    "Beware lest a statue slay you." :zip:
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    So decadent you go on resenting 'this abject life' which you apparently lack the courage to quit ... you're welcome to your fashionably shallow caricature of N.
  • How May the Idea and Nature of 'Despair' be Understood Philosophically?
    There is an infinite amount of hope in the universe ... but not for us. — Franz Kafka

    From on old thread "Questions of Hope, Love and Peace" ...

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/759520

    and from an even older @Jack Cummins thread ...

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/511013
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    Nietzsche goes hand-in-hand with individual self-involvement, and so it resonates with the modern man's sensibilities.schopenhauer1
    So you blame 'a philosophy' for the fads which misuse and fools who misread it? :roll:

    'My Nietzsche' is primarily a cultural diagnotician-poet rather than a romantic individualist-decadent. Consider this old post, schop:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/684298

    Lastly,
    I'm more Nietzschean (i.e. 'Dionysian' in approbation of the daily Sisyphusean grind) whereas Schopenhauer relies on music in a decidedly 'Apollonian' sense (i.e. to momentarily quell the (his) raging Will).180 Proof
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Well, as US Senator Tim Scott's proud and dignified "twin", I'm praying to the Light Fifty for a "Second Amendment solution" with extreme prejudice to this MAGA Cult problem no later than the Fourth of July 2024. :pray:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    And Canada might build a border wall. :)jorndoe
    :up:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    As things stand today, I can't imagine Loser-1 pulling a Grover Cleveland (1892) this fall. Of course, 9½ months is like many lifetimes in US electoral politics and so much could happen, no matter how improbably, to snatch Biden's & the Dems' defeat from the jaws of victory; in that case however, well, the banana republicanization of the US would be complete (spasibo, Vlad :shade:) and then I'd whole-heartedly support the secession of N. California, Oregon & Washington in order to form the independent Republic of Pacifica (btw, I'm a resident of Washington state) – or just resign myself and my community to riding out the obligatory, likely catastrophic, attempt to restore regular 'constitutional' order by military coup, etc. :mask: