:sweat:↪NOS4A2 ...
Your troll game is weak this morning. — praxis
No, you're the one who keeps referring to "interstellar travel" and my position is that that prospect seems quite unlikely for the reasons I've already given.I'm not as convinced as you seem to be of that one. — universeness
By "organic" I understand carbon-based but not necessarly biological and have no idea about the specifications of ASI except that, if it does happen, it will emerge – post-Singularity – from developments by AGI (self-aware or not). I don't predict whether or not such a system will be instantiated in carbon-based materials.Do you assign 0 credence to a future ASI, which is organic and if so, why?
Assuming the post-Singularity transcension (i.e. we may follow other ETI in this "solution to the Fermi Paradox"), I think there will not be any "orga" or biomorphic h. sapiens "thousands or tens of thousands of years from now" or any need by us for space travel long long before then. No "Star Trek" or "Stargate" fantasies, my friend. :smirk:I agree that any initial attempt to get to alpha centauri will not involve any 'orga.'
But I don't think that will still be the case, on a timescale of thousands or tens of thousands of years from now. — universeness
According to this reading, Fr. Copleston misunderstands Spinoza.As I said, Copleston believes that Spinoza has turned God from a potential cause of the universe into an actual cause. — Ali Hosein
"Potential cause" and "actual cause" are Aristotlean notions which do not belong to Spinoza's philosophy, though they might seem relevant because Copleston misreads Spinoza in a Thomistic manner which implies a transcendent divinity (à la "first cause").The "causal order" is a hierarchical sequence of dependent ideas whereas the "logical order" is the independent idea of the totality of ideas. — 180 Proof
Given that I was born a few months after Auschwitz was liberated, it is hardly surprising that I have a strong sense of the evil that humans – individually and collectively – do. My position is that of cautious and chastened optimism, a belief that, if we are ourselves well-treated by others, we will usually treat others reasonably well. — Raymond Tallis
:up:I think of philosophy as a diversity of approaches for not taking anything for granted. — Tom Storm
:up:In my reading of Spinoza, I was continually struck by how it opposed the views of Anselm. — Paine
Meat baggage is extraneous payload which is too resources and energy demanding for any ASI-controlled space mission. Given that relativistic velocities will turn even the interstellar vacuum between the Oort Cloud and Alpha Centuri into an incinerating plasma of particulate-trace gases impacts, an "interstellar space craft" would have to sustain "orga" for millennia traveling at 'safe' sub-relativistic speeds. "Mecha" – TINY von Neumann-like Bracewell probes powered by antimatter or a micro-singularity – seems to me the way to go, especially for post-Singularity transcensionist posthumanity. :nerd:I'm not so sure, perhaps 'orga' components will be as vital to the successful development of interstellar space, as any pure 'mecha.' — universeness
This really helps me consider the OP question in its proper context of Copelston's interpretation of Spinoza rather than from reading Spinoza's texts themselves. :up:I think I found the paragraph you're talking about. Is it from the last paragraph of Chapter X?
"Two points can profitably be noted at once. First, if we propose to start with the infinite divine substance, and if the affirmation of the existence of this substance is not to be regarded as an hypothesis, it has to be shown that the definition of the divine essence or substance involves its existence. In other words, Spinoza is committed to using the ontological argument in some form or other. Otherwise God would not be prior in the order of ideas. Secondly, if we propose to start with God and to proceed to finite things, assimilating causal dependence to logical dependence, we must rule out contingency in the universe. It does not follow, of course, that the finite mind is capable of deducing the existence of particular finite things. Nor did Spinoza think that it was. But if the causal dependence of all things on God is akin to logical dependence, there is no place for free creation, nor for contingency in the world of material things, nor for human freedom. Any contingency which there may seem to be is only apparent. And if we think that some of our actions are free, this is only because we are ignorant of their determining causes." [ ... ] — Moliere
Given the above passage from Fr. Copelston's A History of Philosophy, he seems to interpret Spinoza as arguing that the "causal order", as you put it, is dependent on the "logical order" which is independent of all – not caused by any – other ideas. The "causal order" is a hierarchical sequence of dependent ideas whereas the "logical order" is the independent idea of the totality of ideas.What is the difference between logical order and causal order? — Ali Hosein
Gilles Deleuze et al ...Do you think there are any contemporary heirs to the tradition of Spinoza? — Pantagruel
:fire:It may really be said: You are either a Spinozist or not a philosopher at all. — G.W.F. Hegel
I think the 'posthuman future' will be intrastellar-intraplanetary, not "interstellar"; and, unless we merge with it, the stars are only for ASI ... :nerd:interstellar species — universeness
Only life can be aware? How do you know this?Awareness is an attribute of life (living organisms). — Alkis Piskas
"Naive realism", however, isn't philosophical realism, which is what I read into the OP poll's "non-skeptical realism". Nonetheless, javra, I take your point.As I've mentioned, C.S. Peirce's objective idealism comes to mind. — javra
Like Covid-19, "just stop testing" to get rid of it. :mask:The only way to banish it is to quit using it. — NOS4A2
Isn't antirealism a form of idealism? Are there other forms of idealism which are not antirealist?... again, the dichotomy between realism and idealism can we'll be viewed as false. — javra
:up:Rather, claiming to not believe in racial taxonomies attempts (badly) to rationalize the status quo. — praxis
As long as scapegoating nonwhite communities is less costly psychically and economically for white commmunities than "fixing the relationship" in America, except – often temporarily – tweaked at the margins, the racism-tolerant status quo will prevail.As members of the ruling majority (and historical oppressers of blacks), it's incumbent on whites to fix the relationship. Whites have [almost all] the goodies in this society. — RogueAI