"it does ignore the existence of something I feel connected with"

starting to that, everything you did was to create your own little bible and write it here, glad you found god in your heart, but he then exist in this sole place.

The more it is like me, the more it is beautiful.

People think that when something is ordered it is by someone hence since the word is ordered it is by someone ? well, no, it is instead "People think that when something is ordered it is by someone hence since the word is ordered people think that it is by someone"

Because so far, i see no empirical reason for your room to be cleaned by someone, it is logic because how our society work and how things are going in our lives, but it is absolutely not a rule in itself

Also we know that for a room to be cleaned without any conscient intervention it is near from impossible because we know about science, but from a larger perspective (at the level of the universe or beyond ) we know almost nothing, so maybe what seems impossible from our perspective is common or logic in the larger one

Hence, god is a possibility as credible as any other.

.

I whish i was that kind of guy.


And anyway taking drugs time to time never kill you, it depends which drug also, in which situation, with who and how often.

distort life from the real important things in it. — Question

which are ^^ ?

Most of our lives are defined by avoiding various actions which would bring pleasure because we have more important things to do. — TheWillowOfDarkness

I think that if it is more important it is because it leads to more pleasure, or less overall pain / more overall pleasure to do these things instead of having an immediate satisfaction

I don't think so. More like when pleasure is detached from anything else, where the goal is pleasure, as opposed to doing something which is pleasurable. — TheWillowOfDarkness

Well i do take drugs time to time and it is because i want to feel good for a period of time (party) , it is not different than anything else that is pleasurable, you do it because it leads to a feeling of pleasure

There can be pleasure derived from spiritual practice though. Though, I think if you look at it closely it all comes down to physical pleasure, — Question

It depends what you mean, if i like to cook it is my pleasure to do so and it is not physical, but at the end it is the same thing which happen in my brain as if I was having sex, which is physical.

I would say that it is sad haha

owever, I think every religion and most ethical theories have concluded that endless pleasure or the pursuit of pleasure for pleasures sake is misleading to the path of happiness. — Question

You mean physical pleasure ?

Which would you prefer: the life of 1) or the life of 2)? I prefer 1), and I would venture most would agree with me. — Chany

Well honestly I don't really care as far as I'm equally happy in both of them, and anyway whatever I respond the conclusion stay the same. I would say the life of 1 since I have more chances to stay happy if I have real reasons but it doesnt change the veracity of my assertion which is that happiness is in your mind.

Also, I do not like people using the word "science" to describe what effectively is philosophy. I've had enough of that on this site. — Chany

It is not philosophy that the world is nothing without our brain : what is good, what is bad, which color is front of you, what you feel etc is up to you. I think we can agree on that without problem.

There is a book called Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence — Chany

This book is pure gold and i was about to tell you about it haha :) . By the way if you have something similar to recommend me that would be awesome.

here is serious discussion to be had about how much pleasure there really is in life, and whether we can seriously lead it — Chany

A person who is in serious pain in every waking moment but judges their life to be of relatively good quality does not appear to have a good life — Chany

I find more logic to say that the pleasures and pains are just part of an overall happiness.
Example, someone who is feeling a perfect sensation of pleasure during his whole life but that doesnt like that and is depressed have clearly a bad life, no one would like to live this.
But if hedonism is true then my example is false.
If I'm right, and if hedonism is false, then someone who is suffering his whole life but who is happy with it and wants to continue living have a "good" life.

But to he honest I find these examples really bad, because pain and pleasure are two "only good" or "only bad " things by definition, however a life is full of "neutral" things that you can feel differently.

They tend to forget the painful moments, the long stretches of repetitively mundane and pointless actions — Chany

But the way you feel these moments is only up to you, even if by the time most people will forget a bit about their pain, most of what makes a person happy is the way he feel his everyday life.
What makes you like your life, is it your happiness or your ratio good/bad ? It is your happiness which is the final value(positive or negative) that you give to the ratio of good/bad(positive or negative).



Is a life worth living ? Some say yes if you like it(1), some say yes if your ratio good/bad is positive(2), some say yes if your ratio good/bad is only made of good (3).

But there is no answer since life has no purpose, is the purpose of your life to be happy then (1) is right ? Is the purpose of your life to experiment pleasure then (2) or is your life valuable only if you experience the perfection then (3) ?
1: why not.
2: seems retarded.
3: why not. I like it the most.

So, the best is to never be, the second best is either to kill yourself(1) or to be happy(2).
If not 2 then 1.
This is my opinion and, since like i said life has no purpose, everyone is right, so I am right :).
If however you agree with me then you should agree that perfect and incurable depression should lead to suicide.

There is in my mind more evidences that the purpose of life is (1) since this is the final goal of every of our actions,which make it, if not the purpose of life, the purpose of every human being. And if I'm wrong, then please give me an example.

It appears that 1) has the better life, but, if 1) has the better life, then hedonism is false — Chany

I don't see why 1 would have the better life than 2, if 2 see his life as if it was the life of 1. The quality of your life is in your mind, like everything else, I mean it is simple science not even philosophy.

life has a greater level of pain than of pleasure. If this is true, then, under hedonism, we run into serious challenges — Chany

Hedonism is about happiness not about the number of great or bad things that happens to you. Its all about how people see their lives not about how they actually are.

However, if my third point is true, then they shouldn't necessarily kill themselves, because it is not as if the non-depressed person has it better — Chany

This idea sounds like the kind of jokes that people do to make fun of philosophy haha . And anyway your third point is false.
And if you were right, the good conclusion is that everyone should kill themselves and not that the depressive should stay alive.

Thanks for your reply it was interesting :)

try to understand that is not that hard

I clearly understand that you are depressed however it is not because you suffer from something that you won't go to the doctor, telling to your family that you know better than anyone what you have, let's end the conversation since I argue for nothing. You just keep saying the same thing and never clearly prove me wrong, its boring.
I wrote a whole post and you quote the little tiny part that makes you sad ... what an interesting point of view.

No. The only meaningful thing in their life becomes, oxymoronically, their depression. — Heister Eggcart

But I don't think life is ever more "happy" than it does suffer. — Heister Eggcart

Sort of, but not everyone. You're oversimplifying. — Heister Eggcart

It seems like you have ideas but I don't see any real convaincing argument compared to me and what i said, if you have nothing but assertions i would ask you to at least tell me where I'm wrong but not just by affirming things.


Once more i can say :

You judged that "nothing", right or wrong, is worst than life, so in your mind your overall better amount of satisfaction is in life not deah, your case does not contradict my assertion at all. — Hamtatro

Assertion that is "the only goal of a human life is to be happy".
Happy or satisfying compared to the other choice (death), which lead to the same conclusion that the only human goal is the maximisation of his satisfaction.
Someone who chose to live but who suffer more than anything is misunderstanding the concept of death. You don't lose anything being dead nor you suffer or you enjoy something, a common mistake is to compare it to nothing, which is negative, but the notion of absolute nothing of death is not comparable to the nothing of being lonely in a empty room.

So nowadays, I wouldn't even think of attending something like a party for example. Many young people are obsessed about partying, as if that would make their life better somehow — Agustino

And ....

you are just left to fill your time until you die with whatever you think is good and important. — Agustino

So, your whole post doesnt make any sense haha, I don't think that life is worth anything however I still enjoy what is enjoyable

Young people, which I'm a part of, enjoy partying, traveling, girlfriends, meet great, rare and interesting people during their lives. And you know what ? Even having interesting conversation an a random forum somewhere on the web :)

suicidal individuals often keep on living precisely because of their illness — Heister Eggcart

basically you are telling me that they live because they are too lazy to kill
themselves ? ^^

Secondly, and speaking for myself, I wouldn't say that I've either embraced depression or judged that life is so good that I still want to live in it — Heister Eggcart

I've merely judged that to not be would be worse than to still be — Heister Eggcart

So you judged that your life worth more (or "is so good that" depending on the level of fun that I want to put in my words .. ) than "nothing". It is exactly what i wanted to tell you. If you were suffering more than you enjoy your life (no familly for example etc..) then it would be smarter from you to chose death.

In other words, some depressed people live to be depressed — Heister Eggcart

What does it mean ? They live depressed because they like it ? They live depressed because they either fear death or thinks it is better to live than nothing, it is not always true however, "nothing" is not always worste than "bad", and in such a case we speak about a real nothing that doesnt product boredom or regrets which make it really interesting.

Like I said before the final goal of any human is to satisfy his needs, which lead to happines, no one continue living if he have the choice in a case where there is more overall suffering than happiness (in his mind).
You judged that "nothing", right or wrong, is worst than life, so in your mind your overall better amount of satisfaction is in life not deah, your case does not contradict my assertion at all.

Life isnt rational, if you like it take it if you don't then pass, why live if you suffer from it more than you enjoy.
Don't try to make sense of your life, just do the things that makes you happy, you seems to be a curious person but you won't have any anwers to your questions if you are dead, enjoy what is enjoyable :)

A punishement is something that you can feel during your living time, and that will make you act differently compared to the non existence of this punishement, if your parents gives you a sanction, you are supposed to remember it.

If your parents however, decide to let you starve in the street and let you down for the rest of your life without never going back to you, this is not a sanction. They instead decided that you sucks so hard that they just don't want you in their life, because they have nothing to do with you. They failed your education and failed to love you.

Death is the same thing but for the society to a criminal, the condemned do not learn from the sanction, instead he disappears for the sake of the humanity.

And, a little more, it's not the depression that kills but the negative thoughts and feelings that arise from it — Question

Then what is depression if it is not "negative thoughts and feelings" ?

That's not true and that ideology is a cause of depression and the reason people can become suicidal. — Grey

Give me a single, just a single thing that someone could do that is not in the purpose of trying to be more happy during his overall existence. And then tell me what is the purpose of your life if it is not, at the end, to be satisfied by it, to be happy.
Even someone that stay alive and suffer just because he is religious is just trying to maximise his happines on the long term.

People choose suicide for many different reasons not just because they think their life will be sad — Grey

At the end they prefer to die instead of living because there is something that makes them sad that they know or think will not change in the future. Give me please an example of someone who decided to die because of something he don't give a f*, or something sad but the person thinks it will change in a positive way in the future ? It doesnt make sense, at all . And don't tell me about terrorism or religion, it is not the subject, and they anyway just try to maximise their overall happiness.

Embracing sadness and depression doesn't mean living your life sad and depressed. If you accept sadness and depression and let the emotions do their job then you wont feel that way permanently. — Grey

It is really full of positivity, but it is not true, if i let the memotions do their job I will just be depressed as it is the emotion i feel, what you mean instead is fighting depression (to accept the reallity that makes me sad) which have nothing to do with embracing it, you just change the way you feel the reallity but you don't embrace your feelings, you change them.
You can embrace anything in life as far as it lets you satified of it, but you can't embrace sadness and depression because by definition if you are satified of it then you are not depressed anymore.

Yet you find your life so good that you still want to live it and embrace your pain that is only a part of an overall happy life, so you are not depressive anymore, would you say that if you were depressive currently ? No because when you are depressive ... you are depressive

She clearly is a psychopath like most of the peole who work and worked for this government, you probably are a smart guy since you are on this forum, so i really don't understand how you can get fooled by his lies, she look fake, she is fake. Obama is as fake as her and all other politics too, they made war everywhere for their own interest and destructed your coutry as much as they could, look how the world is right now and who is responsible, ofc its not just them, its all politics of rich countries, but for sure clinton is one of the worst, she is directly or not involved in absolutely every recent war , and what about the social and economic side of his politic ( i mean her and his political party ) .

You clearly don't kow anything about depression, you don't embrace a sad life because the only goal of a human life is to be happy, if some people choose suicide its because they think that their overall life is going to be sad, depression isnt something real when it is not also paired with a negative view of your future, you are not depressed when you are just "sad", i don't feel depressed when i am lonely for two days however if all my friends and familly would die i don't think that i could embrace the depression. At best you could say that people should try to treat their depressions which is nothing to say but useless.
Not everyone can treat his depression because to do so you need to have a positive view of your life, some people however are completly right in their depression because their life objectively sucks.
As simple as that.

To be honest, I feel life is an absolutely unnecessary abomination

Trump will be elected a 2nd time, i don't see anyone that could be more convaincing than him since he is clearly just doing what he promised to do during the whole campaign, which is more than rare for an elected president, and this with the likes of the majority of the population, more the medias will dislike him more the people will think that its a real leader, I have fun watching all that shit, and will laugh during the next election, i hope that this crazy clinton bi*** will be back again to see her lose