I never said that, however, there is negative value in regression, which both candidates offer

yeah, it honestly saddens me that bernie didn't get a chance at presidency, pretty much the only big player that gave a shit about the average person. and yeah, I'd vote for Yang

one ought to give Biden every bit of shit that that corporate fuckbag deserves, even if he does win. — StreetlightX

I am of the belief that both candidates are right wing corporate scumbags with no care for the common people, and should both be raked through the mud as is deserved, I couldn't agree more

As god is described in the christian bible, he is omnibenevolent, or all loving, it can be inferred then, that it would pain him to see evil, cruelties, and pain in the world. He is also described as being omnipotent, or all powerful, so it can be inferred that he has the power to remove the want to do evil from mankind. Furthermore he is described as omniscient, or all knowing, if this is true then he knows that the evil is happening, and how to use his power to simply remove the will to do evil and cause pain from humanity. Yet he doesn't, and Occam's razor my friend, it requires less logical leaps to say that a god, as described in the christian bible does not exist, than to say that he'd rather put humans through trials to test their faith.

I do not state that no god can exist, I simply propose the question: do you really wanna worship a guy who lets all the wrong in the world happen knowingly? Or one who is unaware of the wrong in the world? Or one who is powerless to stop the wrong in the world? Or perhaps, worst of all, a god complicit in it as you have described him to be?

I have a number of links showing Muslims teaching their young children to hate and play act at killing Jews, --- so I cannot quite agree with your "disregard" word. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I had never heard of this before, thank you for bringing new information to light, I also meant something more like thinking someone is worth less than you when i said disregard but that is a whole othe level

Well i am ok with your logic without taking time into the equation. If you take time into the equation that clump of cells is equal to a conscious human, since we're all a part of it. Life is just a process that begins and ends and all processes are dependent on time. It is not entirely certain that the child will become mentally scarred, and even if it do, there are many records of people rising above and obtaining some kind of quality of life. To exist, even in great measures of pain is better than to not exist at all, but that is entirely subjective and my personal opinion.

It's not possible to apply an animal into this debate since it's been necessary for our survival to consume, just the law of nature. — EpicTyrant

well then why not just keep going back, a sperm cell or an egg cell is just fertilization and time away from being a full grown fetus, and those aren't conscious so what's the difference if they both have potential for human life. besides that, you are right but generally if a mother is getting an abortion then the home environment would not be good for the child.
And to that I say yes it 100% is, you CAN live without eating any kind of meat, a mother CAN choose to not get an abortion, even if she cannot sustain the child.
you too, have a great week after that too.

If you did read my text then you'd understand that life within different stages is still life. According to your logic it would be equally right to kill a newborn child as to an abortion state fetus as they both haven't really developed into full consciousness. — EpicTyrant

I have not clarified that I mean first or second trimester pregnancies not third trimester, and do you deem it okay to kill a fully grown, fully conscious cow, what about a deer, or a pig, by your logic it would be wrong to kill them, even if there was a purpose. I am saying it is okay to "kill" a clump of cells with no free thinking, a clump of cells who might grow into a mentally scarred child because they were born into a family who was unable or unwilling to take care of them. with your argument a fetus might become conscious, so it is wrong to abort, so that makes it wrong to kill a conscious, sentient animal.

[ quote="frank;372487"]40% of americans are below poverty,
— sarah young

Do you mean 40 million and 13 percent?[/quote]

No I actually meant "below or near" poverty, but those are the correct figures for what i actually said, and why is a really good question that I do not know the answer to, but I could make a guess. Maybe corporations have been funding the government and trying to make laws that are helpful to corporations but perhaps harmful to the common man.

ince your validity is not determined by what other people think, best not to pay attention to naysayers. Us women have had to deal with people questioning our validity for millennia, whether trans or cis. Easier said than done, but that's all you can do. — Artemis

well first, thanks and second that isn't what I was saying i was just saying it really doesn't feel like they didn't just hate the group I'm in and really they hate every individual in the group as well as the group

Could you then please explain to me what's the difference between murder and abortion since both equal the same outcome: to end a life? — EpicTyrant

abortion does not begin with a life

Which do you think has the biggest impact on prosperity and social mobility: internal policies or external factors like war (whether cold or hot)? — frank

internal politics, I mean they have made living wages almost impossible to find and now 40% of americans are below poverty, and they also caused the costs for higher education and medicine to rise to higher than they have ever been, at speeds as high as 20 times the rate of inflation, steadying out at 8 and 12 times the the inflation rate respectively

I'm Arkansas 2020, and it isn't a problem sonmuch as an inconvenience, when something comes into the public eye someone is bound to disagree with it

you are right, but I don't think it would be fair to put them up against men either

But since they don't know you, they can't hate you — Artemis

Yeah but when they are talking to me, saying that I am not valid because of who I am it feels really personal

okay

Trump to win in 2020 again! — Agustino

we will see soon, though I hope he doesn't win

Is it the lack of perceptive of reality and consciousness of the premature state of lifeform that makes it more bearable to perform an abortion for the carrier? Because the only thing that separates the premature life form from a fully developed one, is the passing of time. — EpicTyrant

I'm a little late to the party, but yes the lack of consciousness and perception are what makes it completely bearable to get rid of a clump of unthinking cells that may devastate the life of the woman that is pregnant. besides even if everyone else deems abortions immoral women will still seek back alley abortions and get themselves killed, or kill a fully conscious and reality perceiving baby i would rather have abortion.

What I accept as a practical matter in my personal life (mostly tolerant of difference) — Bitter Crank

honestly that is all I ask, that people tolerate my existence, and find a reason to hate me other than me being transgender.

At any rate, a transsexual is an adaptation of physique to mental imagery. A male body does not become a female body (and visa versa); the male body can be made to resemble a female body, and visa versa. — Bitter Crank

at the end of the transition a trans woman, assuming pre transition they were fit and not like absolute units they would be physically be near identical to a woman who is as old and had done as much training as them

I have no idea how the body interacts with hormones at various stages in development. For example, a transgendered woman who transitioned in their mid-twenties will probably have a different body than a cisgendered woman of the same age. — Chany

well I'm here to help as a transgender woman in her mid 20's if a transgender woman started transitioning in her mid 20's she wouldn't be done until her late 30's, and estrogen causes muscle atrophy and muscle redistribution toward female proportions, as well as skeletal changes and fat redistribution to match a female body. Physically they are almost identical at the end of their transitions but during the transitions they will still retain some male characteristics.

Can a male become a female? I would say 'no', because "maleness" and "femaleness" is deeper than appearance and roles. Sex (male/female, as opposed to appearances and roles of man and woman) is built from conception forward, resides in the chromosomes and sex-linked traits, and is immutable — Bitter Crank

I do disagree with you about weather or not someone can truly change their sex, because i think that changing you appearance, organs, and societal roles to match the opposite gender constitutes a sex change. But I don't care whether or not you think I am a true woman, and this entire thread has just been a bunch of people repeating themselves over and over so how do you feel about the transgender bathroom situation

yes i do believe it is astate of mind

you can lack those and still be a complete woman, besides even if i believed differently who would I be to tell someone they aren't valid

not exactly, but it is those things which made me most comfortable in my own body, think more like not necessary but appreciated

that implies that I believe, which i do, determines sex/gender but i also believe that it is say the sex characteristics of a woman, like a vagina and boobs

look, I have a vagina and boobs now, no matter how legitimate you think them to be I think that they qualify me as a female

I was speaking figuratively, which is common throughout language. By “decided by nature” I mean genes and hormones, not some doctor with a steady hand, determine and develop sex at the earliest stages of a human’s life. So no, they have not changed any sex, they have merely altered the body in such a way to convince themselves that they have. — NOS4A2

I'm gonna disagree with you there, I have changed my sex through hormones and surgery

no problem

i feel like you should also cover your bases a bit more, because people are really good at twisting other peoples words to mean something that was not intended

t’s less pointless than your observation that one can change their sex by altering their body. You can change someone’s skin color by giving them a tattoo. You can change their hair color by dying their hair. These are artificial, not naturally occurring. — NOS4A2

i feel that i need to say that there is nothing wrong with something being man-made, like vaccines, modern medicine, houses, the device you wrote this one and most food is man made, but that does not make it bad

Transexuals usually have a perfectly normal body; the idea that their identity does not match their body is a delusion. Look, I completely understand that some men would rather be women and some women would rather be men. They can pretend. I might wish I looked like Adonis, sang in a baritone voice, possessed the mind of Einstein, and had the wealth of Bill Gates, but I don't. They can have organs lopped off or sort-of-look-alike organs fashioned out of skin and fat tissues. An artificial penis is not a real penis; a glass eyeball is not a real eyeball. — Bitter Crank

i think you are misrepresenting me, a transexual woman, here I will let you feel how you want about sex change surgeries because it's really not my fucking business how much you care about that but saying that transexuals merely would rather be the opposite sex and then compare that to wants you have yourself. it is our minds that are troubled, you are right most of us do have perfectly normal bodies, both before and after transitioning, but gender dysphoria is a very serious issue, the rates of suicide and attempted suicide by transgender people are upwards of 75% and I feel like you are just trying to say that it is a casual want instead of what it really is, the ability to be who we really are. because we don't just want to be the opposite gender we are the opposite gender it just so happens to be that we are born into the wrong bodies, because it has been proven that transgender people literally have the mind of a cisgender person of the opposite birthsex.

Okay so looking into it I found a few things, so here is the gist of it
"Hout argues we have been misled by the fact that, for the Baby Boomer generation, pretty much everybody experienced upward mobility as part of the post-World War II economic boom. "Ninety percent of young adults earned more than their parents did, and 60 percent worked in higher-status occupations," he notes.

This was due to "broad economic growth and occupational transformation, not from equal chances to take advantage of opportunity," he writes. The waning of these trends in recent decades, he adds, has "unmasked" the reality that people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds have a tough time moving up."
"This view approximates that of a majority of Americans. According to the World Values Survey, 70% of Americans believe that the poor can make it out of poverty on their own. This contrasts sharply with attitudes in Europe, where only 35% believe the same thing. Put another way, most Europeans consider the poor unfortunate, while most Americans consider them indolent. This may be one reason why European countries support more generous – and costlier – welfare transfers than the US." -world economic forums
"According to survey research that colleagues and I recently conducted and analyzed, Americans estimate that among children in the lowest income bracket, 12% will make it to the top bracket by the time they retire. Americans also believe that with hard work, only 22% of children in poverty today will remain there as adults.

The actual numbers are 8% and 33%, respectively. In other words, Americans overestimate upward social mobility and underestimate the likelihood of remaining stuck in poverty for generations. They also believe that if everyone worked hard, the American Dream of self-made success would hew closer to reality."
"European respondents are more pessimistic about mobility: unlike Americans, they overestimate the odds of remaining in poverty. For example, French, Italian, and British respondents said, respectively, that 35%, 34%, and 38% of low-income children will remain poor, when the reality is that 29%, 27%, and 31% will."
I tried to find more sources to back these two sites credibility, but I couldn't find any more that said why, not that, America is doing poorly here

But still, point taken. What is it that makes social mobility greater in these countries? — frank

You know what, I'll actually have to look into that because at this point I really don't know

If you're saying there is less social mobility, I'd be interested in statistics that demonstrate that. — frank

"The notion that anyone in America who is willing and able to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” can achieve significant upward mobility is deeply embedded in U.S. society. Conventional wisdom holds that class barriers in the United States are the lowest among the world’s advanced economies." -the economic policy institute
"The relationship between father-son earnings is tighter in the United States than in most peer OECD countries, meaning U.S. mobility is among the lowest of major industrialized economies. The relatively low correlations between father-son earnings in Scandinavian countries provide a stark contradiction to the conventional wisdom. An elasticity of 0.47 found in the United States offers much less likelihood of moving up than an elasticity of 0.18 or less, as characterizes Finland, Norway, and Denmark." - the economic policy institute
"eight countries studied—Canada, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, the UK and the US, the US had both the highest economic inequality and lowest economic mobility. In this and other studies, in fact, the USA has very low mobility at the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder, with mobility increasing slightly as one goes up the ladder."-wikipedia

No social system has fixed that problem so far. There is no substitute for finding the ladder and getting your ass up onto it. — frank

I'm talking about specifically America where this is a problem. This is not a problem in most of the western world.

Exactly. Money is the great equalizer. That is the great capitalist virtue. — frank

Well yeah but in America if you are born poor there is a good chance you and every single one of your descendants will be poor

I don't agree with her obviously, but to be charitable, maybe she meant that the racial category of being white is founded on racism, and those implicit biases of that categorization influence people in society to think in biased ways. therefore all the subtle discrimination another poster brought up, that white people aren't even aware of doing. So she, identifying as a white person, embodies those racist assumptions — Marchesk

Well that would be grouping someone by the color of their skin and telling them they are bad for something they didn't do and have no effect over, so it's pretty racist.

Aren't most straight white male victims of discrimination poor? Like with a biker tatto? — frank

Yes, but aren't most victims of discrimination period poor, like I don't see any millionaires being descriminated against

This sort of special pleading stinks of "victim envy". Compared to the grossly ubiquitous normativity of systemic discrimination against nonwhite, female & nonbinary persons, incidents of anti-'straight white male' discrimination are de minimis and, more significantly, not systemic (after all 'the system' is, in fact, controlled by 'straight white male' elites predominately for the benefit of 'straight white male' elites ...) — 180 Proof

Victim envy? I am not straight, white, cis, or male, so no. And you are right the system is controlled by predominantly white elites but it is to the benefit of all of the elites, and does not protect the common straight, white man and the system is actually rigged against all commenors not just commoners that are minorities. There is systemic discrimination against almost any majority as well as minority, the only majority that is not descriminated against is straight, cisgender people and they don't get special treatment either, like I have said before I am not trying to cover up any oppression against anyone just bring to light that other people have to deal with racism and sexism every day too. Also one final note, nothing has to be systemic to be valid someone can be racist to a white person and whether or not you believe it is systemic it is still racism.

One person spoke to all the white people, explaining how it's difficult to acknowledge that their existence as a white person was harmful to others, but this was an important issue to deal with. — Marchesk

this is simply untrue, and by coincidence is racist, it would be like pulling aside a group of black people and telling them that their existence, as black people was naturally harmful to white people. For something to be racist it does not have to be doe against a minority, just against a person based only on their skin color, racism can affect white people and sexism can affect men. And even beside that point a white person is not naturally racist and only causes harm to black people by accident, coincidence or a mere mistake, assuming that this person is not racist.