That leaves considerable room for debate over exactly 'what' you need to change in order to transition from one sex to another — Bartricks
Why, for instance, should someone who is otherwise indistinguishable from a woman be stopped from using a female toilet? — Bartricks
Their cells don't have the right chromosomal structure? — Bartricks
Yes because this would have side effects such as: Making them very distinguishable from someone who was born female. If somehow you could fix the hormonal imbalances without changing the chromosomes, sure, but that sounds even harder to do. — khaled
I don't think many hold that position. I think most have a problem with people that vaguely somewhat resemble women asking to use women's bathrooms or vice versa. — khaled
Someone who looked exactly like a stereotypical woman but whose cells had the wrong chromosomal structure would be deemed a man and not permitted entry to that bathroom. Which, I am saying, is absurd. — Bartricks
But then those who satisfy the visual criteria should be admitted, regardless of their actual sex, surely? — Bartricks
Agreed. Those things are interconnected though. That's what I'm pointing out. You can't be indistinguishable from a woman/man visually without having the right chromosomal structure — khaled
If a guy puts on enough makeup and crossdresses to be indistinguishable from a woman — khaled
, it won't make essential reference to the chromosomal structure of his cells. — Bartricks
So who should and should not be let into which toilet is an issue that isn't plausibly about chromosomes — Bartricks
So if one's sex is determined by chromosomes - either partly or entirely - then that debate isn't about sex, but something else. — Bartricks
Can you change your sex? I think so. — Bartricks
I think the best explanation is that race clearly does have an essential historical component, whereas sex - it would seem - does not. — Bartricks
Can you make a silk purse out of a sow's ear? I think not. — Bitter Crank
It seems to me that you have reached for the wrong comparison here. Among progressives (who are all in favor of loosely defined gender definitions) there is very strong support for the idea that race is an arbitrary social construct than that it is an essential historical component. — Bitter Crank
In the real world there is a distinct difference between "what is, in fact the case" and "what one can get away with". In the real world, males have XY chromosomes, and females have XX chromosomes. Men have penises, testicles, prostates, and so forth; women have vaginas, ovaries, fallopian tubes, and uteruses. Women can bear children; men can not, — Bitter Crank
Can you make a silk purse out of a sow's ear? I think not. — Bitter Crank
Through art a man can look like a woman, and a woman can look like a man, but through no amount of surgery, hormones, clothing, cosmetics, and propaganda can a man become a woman, or a woman become a man. — Bitter Crank
Of course sex can be changed, but these changes would be wholly artificial. — NOS4A2
You're both right. If we define sex solely in terms of external anatomy, then certainly the sex can be changed. If we define it in terms of the presence or absence of a Y chromosome, then sex cannot be changed. — Relativist
Why are you invested in the idea that nothing has an inherent identity? — Bitter Crank
The simplest way of turning pigs ears into silk purses would be — Bitter Crank
One of the sleights of hand that pro-trans advocates pull is saying "sex is assigned at birth". Not true. Sex is observed at birth. Hospitals, doctors, midwives, and parents don't arbitrarily "assign" a sex at birth. — Bitter Crank
Penis? check = male
Vagina? check = female
XY chromosome? check = male
XX chromosome? check = female — Bitter Crank
Transexuals usually have a perfectly normal body; the idea that their identity does not match their body is a delusion. Look, I completely understand that some men would rather be women and some women would rather be men. They can pretend. I might wish I looked like Adonis, sang in a baritone voice, possessed the mind of Einstein, and had the wealth of Bill Gates, but I don't. They can have organs lopped off or sort-of-look-alike organs fashioned out of skin and fat tissues. An artificial penis is not a real penis; a glass eyeball is not a real eyeball. — Bitter Crank
It’s less pointless than your observation that one can change their sex by altering their body. You can change someone’s skin color by giving them a tattoo. You can change their hair color by dying their hair. These are artificial, not naturally occurring. — NOS4A2
You: yes, but if you change your sex on a Wednesday, you didn't change it on a Tuesday
Transexuals usually have a perfectly normal body; the idea that their identity does not match their body is a delusion. Look, I completely understand that some men would rather be women and some women would rather be men. They can pretend. I might wish I looked like Adonis, sang in a baritone voice, possessed the mind of Einstein, and had the wealth of Bill Gates, but I don't. They can have organs lopped off or sort-of-look-alike organs fashioned out of skin and fat tissues. An artificial penis is not a real penis; a glass eyeball is not a real eyeball. — Bitter Crank
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