We do have some democratic industry and Germany has more democratic industry than the US. — Athena

What is that even supposed to mean?

Different as the Christian Yahweh is different from the Jewish version.
Islam says that Mohammad is a prophet of the same god. The final prophet.
Strange that we are talking the beginning and interpretations in Islam, yet the link I gave you is irrelevant when it ties Yahweh's angel to Mohammad. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You are, I am not, I was simply pointing out how the claim is logically impossible. I am sorry about your apparent reading comprehension problem.

You are too stupid for me. Done here. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Yeah, I feel the same way.

Stay willfully ignorant.
https://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/2009/04/angel-gabriel-and-muhammad.html — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Irrelevant.

Logic does not apply to the supernatural realm.
All that can be said of the supernatural is speculative nonsense.
You are more stupid than you think. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I am not arguing about any "supernatural realm". I simply trying to explain to you that the claim that god figure described in islam is different from the god figure described in Christianity. That is a statement about claims, not an argument about any supernatural whatever,

And name-calling simply shows that you have lost the argument and dont want to admit it. Alas, a very human reflex.

We were discussing the situation in the UK, not the US.
Get a grip. — Punshhh

LOL, sorry, with TDS being rampant as it is, I reflexively think somebody is ranting against orangeman agan. Then again, poor Boris is getting almost the same treatment from the media.

Nobody knows when a treatment or vaccine will become available. If it does happen very soon, yes, it will change things and you can then work that into the maths. You can't work it in when it doesn't exist. — Baden

Nobody knows for sure when, but humankind has a long history of solving problems in an emergency situation, and here we have to unique case that almost the whole world is up against one common enemy. Never bet against our species when it comes to inventing new weapons to win a war, and we are in war against this virus.

Don't know and do not care what imaginary gods think or do. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I am am using simple logic. It applies to imaginary gods as well as to you and me. Stop obfuscating.

The Muslim perception and tradition stems from the Judeo Christian traditions and just as Christians usurped Yahweh from the Jews, the Muslims usurped Yahweh from the Christians. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

The "muslim perception" stems from the Koran and the Haddith, which are all based on one single man, who in islamic doctrine is the perfect human being to emulated in every way. "The muslims" simply follow what this man said and did, which he claimed was dictated by Allah.

Stop trying to obfuscate the picture with weasel words.

The death rate is some percentage of the infection rate, without discrimination, not detached from it, for one part. Medical conditions, the discriminatory part, get worse as the system overloads, increasing the death rate. — boethius

That is why flattening the curve is important... to avoid overloading the system.

Just as predictably, the real world outcome of this "PR delay" is to make the situation that much worse. — boethius

That is just your TDS speaking here. Trumps initial over-optimistic public statements were bad PR, but at the same time he acted fast and correctly. There is nothing concrete to critiziise here, you are just parrotting the Trump-hating "mainstream" media.

To me that looks like it'll peak before 100,000 cases. Scale up to America and they should slow down and peak before 1 million (I'm guessing in a couple of months) presuming increasingly strict measures (short of "hammer"-like moves, which still seem unlikely on a national level). — Baden

You are just looking at the mathematics but forget that massive ressources are being thrown at developing treatment for this. I think you will be surprised how soon some treatment is available, and then the statistics will look completely different.

I'm worried about my children's health. I welcome cancer as it pertains to tobacco. I don't think tobacco will necessarily infect me nor my children with the corona virus. My family is better off with me dead. — christian2017

Oh my that is dark. I didn´t mean to say tobacco infects you, I just meant that tobacco is bad for the lungs, and Corona attacks the lungs. Most old guys in China are heavy smokers....

No Beer No Life. Does that mean you do drink beer or you don't? I use tobacco mainly but i have nothing against drinking alcohol other than it can get out of hand for some people. — christian2017

Quit tobacco long ago. You might want consider too in these Corona days.

Making us all worship one god is a good way to bring people together. But the problem is, it creates antagonisms against the "others". And that's a major problem with religion, — Wheatley

It is a problem only with monotheistic religions, and among those only with those who are concerned about others. Stop generalizing about "religion".
E.g. the Romans had their pantheon, and any captured tribe simply got to add their gods there. Problem solved.

Mohammad listened to what angel who he said dictated the Quran?
That angel was first mention as being Yahweh's. Right? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I am not interested in discussing angels or unicorns. I was pointing out simple logic: can one god at the same time love its own followers and love its own followers? Yes or no?

(The same btw goes for the often heard claim that islam respects "Jesus". The Jesus figure described is completely different, so this too is a nonsensical claim.)

Mitigating actions of a test failure would have been:

1. Had one or two parallel test-kids developed by other companies to increase the odds one is successful at scaling quickly in the critical first outbreak phase (where all reductions in infection rates have the highest return on investment; Tump's a business mad so surely understands that concept).
2. Negotiate to fly-in some tests short term (maybe in exchange) if testing is delayed, perhaps in exchange for money as well as promise to fly back even more tests when things are sorted out in the US. Because, you know, he's the president and can phone up other leaders and "make a deal".
3. Invest and re-organize in scaling tests as quickly as possible once the problems were solved. — boethius

I understand all of this is being done.
I fail to see what he could have done differently in concrete terms, He reacted quickly, and as I pointed out, quicker than other European countries (although not as quick as Taiwan and Singapore, I give you that. But those places, being Chinese, arguably had a lot better insight of what is going on in the PRC).

Same God for Jews, Christians and Muslims. It is not logical to believe one of these groups has the true god and the others do not because they do not. Only culturally are they different. — Athena

You keep repeating yourself. Please try to read! I pointed out that the Koran is full of hatred against Christians and Jews. How is that possible if we are talking about the same god? It would mean god hates its own followers.

Your claim that both are not the same simply shows your ignorance on the issue.
We are done here as you are applying a double standard. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

No I am not. Did you see the Bill Maher interview that I posted? Maher addresses exactly this, and the interviewer try to bring up exactly your talking points.

Not so. He just thinks Christians and Jews should pay an extra tax for their poor thinking.
Allah is just a title like god is. They have a nameless god iand that is why they say Allah is Yahweh.
Clearer now? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Christians and Jews have to pay the head tax in order to be allowed to live, because Allah hates them. So your point is?

About Allah being another name for god, well, yes, same as Yahweh, but I am pointing out that this Allah/Yahwe would have to be schizophrenic.

By the way, you might want to argue this with the Malay authorities who do not allow Malaysian Christians to use the word Allah in their bibles.

There is no God who hates people — Athena

Apparently you never read the Koran and the Haddiths. Try that before posting more false statements.

I'm just going to appreciate this beautiful exercise in mental gymnastics, let it stand a bit as a refined and advanced example of the double-think talent, and then completely demolish it. — boethius

So in other words you can not give a concrete example of what Trump should have done that he did not. Figures.

Christianity and Islam share the same DNA so it should not surprise anyone that they are close in ideology. They are both fascist. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Your repeating that falsehood does not make it so. Christianity was founded by a pacifist, celibate hippiue. Islam was founded by a sex slave keeping warlord. Christianity says nothing about other existing religions; the islamic books are chock-full of hatred against Christians, Jews and Hindus and commands to fight them. Xtianity has separation between church and state built-in -- islam has Shariah and the command to subdue the whole world under Sharia. Should I go on?

Your claim that both are the same simply shows your ignorance on the issue.

He was correct on every point, I think. He, like me, does not think highly of Christianity and thinks as I do that the Muslin ideology is the epitome of evil ideologies.

What error did you pick up in his presentation? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You, like the interviewer, tried to equate islam with Christianity. Bill Maher points out that that is absolutely naive. Islam is very different from christianity, and infinitely more aggressive.

Why? One fascist god looks about the same as all fascist gods. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Allah hates the followers of Yahweh. If Allah was Yaweh, that would mean he hates his own followers. Clearer now?

Even Trump supporters may be able to see this obvious logic considering the time frame is so short; many are impressively immune, updating their beliefs Trump is not to blame for anything in real time, but we will see if this applies to all members of the flock. — boethius

What obvious logic? I agree that Trumps initial response was bad PR, he went all out to claim the problem was under control while it was not. However, I do not see a problem with the actions he took. He quickly (much more quickly than e.g. European countries) introduced travel restrictions, and appointed a Corona Tsar to coordinate further actions. What exactly should he have done that he did not?
I feel the strong smell of TDS here again.... orangeman bad, no matter what.

Watch this little skit and come back and tell us what major differences you see between right wing Christians and right wing Muslims — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Talking about little video clips, since your views pretty much represent the ill-informed leftist intellectual majority in the West, you might want to watch this little clip. The interviewer seems to be a good representation of you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpdGK3F4pC0

you are mixing up ethics with human rights again. Granted, they have to do something with each other. — god must be atheist

Human rights are part of ethics. What are you talking about?

Watch this little skit and come back and tell us what major differences you see between right wing Christians and right wing Muslims. You might think that because Muslims kill their apostates, they are better than Christians, but remember that when Christian Jesus returns, he is to kill all apostate. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I watched it and it is mildly funny but completely uninformed, clearly addressing than audience of low-information viewers. Is that what you base your opinion on?

But yes, islam demands killing of apostates, and with an increasing islamzation of the West, you now have incidences like that in West too. So you got one snippet correct. What Jesus does or not do when "he returns" is of no concern for me or any other living person.

Nah. Man. The Chinese have higher ethical standards than US, — Shawn

You mean the CCP? The one that jailed people for months for talking about Corona? Seriously???

He called the State Department the Deep State Department. — Michael

That is a pretty clever quip. If you could look outside your TDS bubble, you would agree with that.

Christianity may work for millions, as you say, but it does not work to bring equality for all as they continue to preach their homophobic and misogynous teachings that victimises more millions than what it works for.

I think that the sooner we rid ourselves of the religions that are inferior in law to secular law, Christianity and Islam leading that list, the sooner all will have equality. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You too make the uninformed and dangerous assumption that Christianity and Islam are comparable. This is simply wishful thinking.
Christianity is an integral part of Western civilizations, has gone through an age of enlightenment, and is the foundation for a lot of concepts that the West is based on, like separation of church and state, equality under the law, neighbourly love, the golden rule, the sanctity of life, and more.

None of this is the case for islam which was founded by ruler, is unchanged and unchangeable, and established a supremacist and oppressive system, designed as an ever-expanding project to take over the world.

Alas, your naive wishful thinking is widespread in the West and leads to the endless line of tragic mistakes that our politicians are making.

You put me in a difficult position. That is something my Muslim friends never did. I never felt I had to defend myself from their personal attacks. And the way you addressed Frank is shocking. If there is anything nice about you, it is not showing. — Athena

I am only stating facts, there is no personal attack there. And if there is something "nice" about me is irrelevant. A lot of times facts are not "nice".

Again: the claim that Yaweh and Allah describe the same deity would logically mean that this deity is schizophrenic..

What Athena said is absolutely correct. The "Allah" of Islam...IS the god of Abraham. — Frank Apisa

Seeing that Allah opposes everything the Christian god says and hates its followers, that claim would only make any sense if this united god was schizophrenic.
Now go away, troll.

If you could logically show any of my arguments — Frank Apisa

There was no argument, let alone several. Now go away, troll.

About comparing the God of Abraham religions- they all share the same God — Athena

No, they do not. The description of God figure is completely different, and if you think of islam as a sort of Arab Christianity all you do is demonstrate that you have not researched the issue at all. Zip, zilch, nada.

Yeah. All Frankie's got is trollin' ... and some of us are bored enough to play whack-a-troll with him. What a hypocrite though: he allows himself to define "atheism" in a self-serving manner but does not allows anyone else to define "agnosticism" - even for the sake of discussion - in any way other than the way he does. And then he wonders why he's the piñata du jour. :yawn: — 180 Proof

Oh, he is a well-known troll around here? I had sort of written it off as senility. Either way, I plonk him, but if it is not Alzheimers I scrap the sympathy too.

Well, technically they do (as that's how there is a currency at all). — Michael

Of course, but since I assume that you are not a complete idiot (like the infinite pot-of-money crowd), you of course know that that simply means inflation, i.e. taxation of everybody. So why bring this up?

No they don't. They are well aware that the money comes from taxation. — Michael

Well, depends on who "they" are. With a lot of that crowd, I do have the feeling they really do not understand that the government does not have a magical pot of gold.

They want to fund this by increasing the tax on businesses and the wealthy (e.g. by reverting Trump's $1.5 trillion tax cut) and cutting spending elsewhere. — Michael

Yeah, OK, I know the party political slogans. The reality is of course more complicated, but that is not really a topic for the Corona thread.

Other voters think that tax cuts for the rich, building a multi-billion dollar wall, driving up the deficit, blah blah... won’t have any effects??? — praxis

I have seen you have feeing on party-ine propaganda talking points. But interesting that you mention the "deficit" in the same breath while demanding that the government spends money. Cognitive dissonance?

You realize Trump did the same right? He consistently downplayed the threat until the recent stockmarket crash. — Baden

Not true. It is correct that Trumps original response was bad PR; he was too overly optimistic, as is his natural reflex. But he corrected that pretty quickly. The stock market would have gone down anyway, as it was looking for a correction.
You might want to consider taking your TDS tunnel vision glasses off sometimes; not everything bad in the world is the fault of the orange monster.