• God, as Experienced, and as Metaphysical Speculation
    I did not like the quote from Wittgenstein because it was another comment that made me think that the poster had not read anything in my essay.Brendan Golledge

    That's quite true. For what it's worth, let me explain why. You shouldn't take it personally.

    People have been telling other people about God for a very long time. People have also believed they have special insight into God and religion (which includes our experience of God) and have wanted to communicate this to other people. for a very long time. This is unremarkable.

    In my case, the people who told me about God and their special insight into and knowledge/experience of God were, for the most part, priests, brothers, nuns and lay functionaries of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. My days as a son of Holy Mother Church ended some time ago. But the tendency to testify about one's views and experience of God isn't limited to Catholics, though I wonder if the need to proselytize is a peculiarity of those who adopt one of the Abrahamic religions or were once among their believers.

    I'm not sure what it is that moves a person to share observations and speculations regarding God, but I doubt that doing so has ever succeeded in accomplishing anything except, in some cases, convincing someone to accept a belief in a particular kind God or fostering disagreement over whether God exists or if God does exist, what God is in that case. This may reveal something about ourselves, but can hardly be said to tell us anything about God.

    Such things may strike some people as important. But, for me, they achieve nothing because, as Wittgenstein also said, God is something regarding which we should (or must) remain silent.
  • God, as Experienced, and as Metaphysical Speculation
    I think there is wisdom in this statement by Wittgenstein: "Make sure that your religion is between you and God only."

    For one thing, we wouldn't need to be concerned about the length of essays on the subject, if we follow that advice.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)


    Oh yes. Emergency Powers were granted to the President by Congress some time ago, and Presidents delight it making use of them. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I think those powers should be restricted more than they are.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Is dictatorship even possible in America under your political system?Hailey

    The power of the Executive has been steadily increased, and a president may, upon declaring a national emergency (which the president may do unilaterally) exercise extraordinary powers, dictatorial in scope, such as deploying troops or limiting telecommunications. Trump has been claiming, in effect, a "national emergency" for quite some time, and we may be reasonably certain he will do so given the opportunity, if it serves his purpose.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Surely a pledge to abide by the rules of the contest ought to be a basic minimum entry requirement. Plain common sense, I would have thought.Wayfarer

    Yes. But we're dealing with a person who won't honor a pledge in any case, and won't be expected to by those who support him.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)


    Given the times and the stakes, it strikes me this is a legitimate concern. Perhaps these individuals, and maybe other state AGs and Secretaries of State, are or will be inviting litigation or pursuing it (e.g. seeking a declaratory judgment) to settle the issue as much as possible prior to the election.

    A case can be made that American elections have always been, as H.L. Mencken said, "a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." But our politics have become particularly depraved lately.
  • Personal Jesus and New Testament Jesus
    Does the blessing include those who make junket?Banno

    They're especially blessed.
  • The Insignificance of Moral Realism
    I partially disagree: most people have false beliefs about their own tastes, so moral discourse is helpful for really honing in on what one truly wants.Bob Ross

    I take it you don't mean what one should want. If that's the case, though, I'm not sure how helpful "moral discourse" would be.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Does someone need to file suit in order for Trump to be found ineligible to stand? I mean, it wouldn’t automatically follow from a conviction without a separate suit being filed would it? (When McConnell declined to convict Trump on his second impeachment, he pointedly said that civil laws have other remedies for Trump’s acts. He might have been referring to that.)Quixodian

    I'm not sure what the procedure would be. As far as I know, there's been no proceeding under it. This mountebank and the myrmidons that assist him have been relatively rare since the Amendment was adopted. Suckers, of course, are born every minute as P.T. Barnum or someone else said.

    I suspect McConnell was merely trying to justify his cowardice in failing to support impeachment when he made the remarks you refer to.
  • Personal Jesus and New Testament Jesus
    I recently mentioned the verses to two different believers in Jesus. Both denied that Jesus ever said that a child who curses a parent should be put to death. After being shown the verses, both denied that Jesus meant that a child who curses a parent should be put to death.Art48

    That sort of thing has been going on for quite some time. I always think of that portion of Monty Python's Life of Brian, where those at the edge of the crowd listening to the Sermon on the Mount can't quite make out what Jesus is saying. Someone thinks he says "Blessed are the cheesemakers" and is corrected by another listener, who says "Well, you can't take him literally, you know. What he really means is 'Blessed are all makers of dairy products'" (or words to that effect). I mentioned this is a prior post and think some moderator deleted it, for reasons I don't know. Perhaps the moderator thought Jesus should be taken literally, or that cheesemakers are truly blessed.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)


    I saw something similar at Reason magazine, online. I'm not overfond of The Federalist Society, with which Clarence ("The Moocher") Thomas and Samuel ("The Crank") Alito and others I think less than admirable are associated. It's avowed commitment to "individual liberty" seems to me to be limited and often in conflict with its avowed commitment to "traditional values."

    Regardless, I think this provision of the Fourteenth Amendment applies. But I can't claim to have read the law review article and likely won't (I loathe law review articles). I think Michael Popek is overly optimistic, though. The leaders of the Republican Party are the most part craven, the followers of this Rupert Pupkin-like figure are too zealous in their ignorance to pay attention to such things, and conservative media is largely made up of his shills. The only hope is with the courts, though it's possible the majority of the voters recognize him for what he is.
  • The Insignificance of Moral Realism
    thusly submit to the reader that if moral realism is true, then it is useless for deriving morals, since the best (and most rational) course of action is to figure out what one is fundamentally obligated to (which is a taste) and derive what the consequences are of holding that hypothetical imperative.Bob Ross

    Thank you, but I'll do what I think appropriate, regardless. Why, indeed, shouldn't I? De gustibus non est disputandum.
  • There Is a Base Reality But No One Will Ever Know it
    But I always took Wittgenstein to be saying that philosophers (and scientists doing philosophy) shouldn't be getting into "what really exists," and what doesn't, in metaphysical terms.Count Timothy von Icarus

    I see. I'm uncertain what his view was of scientific investigation and its results, but think he felt philosophers were misguided in pursuing theories of metaphysics, and therefore reality, and his criticisms related to their method of doing so. In other words, I don't think he believed we can't know whether, e.g., socks are real or that there's something real we can't know, but rather that our use of language can "trick" us into striving to know what's "really real."
  • There Is a Base Reality But No One Will Ever Know it
    So back to plain ordinary reality, socks and hands and cups and kettles.Banno

    You mean....the socks I put on my feet are real? But the feet aren't, right?
  • There Is a Base Reality But No One Will Ever Know it
    Scientific realism seems more the default position than his anti-metaphysical stance.Count Timothy von Icarus

    In what sense does it differ from Wittgenstein's stance? Does it dispute the "plain ordinary reality" of socks and hands and cups and kettles, as Banno put it, or posit a "base reality" we can't know?
  • Gnostic Christianity, the Grail Legend: What do the 'Secret' Traditions Represent?

    I think it's similar in intent. The Latin portion of the title is taken from my daemon, Marcus Tullius Cicero, by the way: Philosophia est ars vitae (philosophy is the art of living.
  • Gnostic Christianity, the Grail Legend: What do the 'Secret' Traditions Represent?


    There's a book, Ars Vitae: The Fate of Inwardness and the Return of the Ancient Arts of Living, by Elizabeth Lasch-Quinn, which you may find interesting. It addresses ancient Gnosticism, Stoicism and Epicureanism and discusses modern versions of them--efforts to renew them as an alternative to secular world views. I was impressed by her knowledge of the works of those who purport to be modern Stoics, including the loathsome Ryan Holiday (who seems to view Stoicism as a method to succeed in the world, particularly in business). I'm not that familiar with the works of Gnosticism, so can't tell how deeply she dives into that.
  • God & Christianity Aren’t Special


    That's nice of you. I like yours, also.
  • Masculinity


    I like the analogy. I think it reflects Dewey's view that philosophy has too often thought of the relation between ourselves and the world as one of knowing; that of one between the knower and the known--the world being made up of objects of our knowledge (the "spectator" theory of knowledge), and that in fact we're part of the world and our lives made up of our experience interrelating with the rest of it, and others.
  • Gnostic Christianity, the Grail Legend: What do the 'Secret' Traditions Represent?
    In this way, I am suggesting that a fuller critique of the Christian worldview is important in philosophy, especially as the perspective shaped so much Western thinking, including the foundations of science, especially the ideas of Kant and Descartes. Any thoughts?Jack Cummins

    Christianity is a remarkable hodgepodge of preexisting religious, philosophical, social and cultural beliefs popular in the ancient Mediterranean world, but unusual for its intolerance and exclusivity, which came to thrive after it was absorbed into the Roman imperial state. I doubt there is anything original or unique about it; even its exclusive nature may be said to be derived from Judaism.

    To the extent it's worldview made any contribution to Western thinking and science, it did so by way of ancient pagan thought which it borrowed so much from (the fact that pagan thought wasn't a very good fit with Christian doctrine was largely ignored, which is to say that the claim Jesus was God was ignored when convenient). The Renaissance and the Enlightenment owed much more to pre-Christian Greece and Rome that they did to Christ, Scripture or the Church Fathers.
  • Is a prostitute a "sex worker" and is "sex work" an industry?
    Is it a good thing that "prostitution" (under any name) is stigmatized?
    Do you feel obligated to use the euphemism "sex worker" rather than prostitute or whore?
    Is sex "work"?
    Is sex "an industry"?
    Is selling or buying sexual access a legitimate commercial activity?
    If selling sexual access is a legitimate commercial activity, should it be officially recognized, regulated, and commercially encouraged, like any other trade?
    Is buying sex a legitimate, normal, moral act?
    Do you think "sex workers" (as opposed to "prostitutes") freely choose to sell sex?
    Do you think adverse circumstances is the likely cause of people becoming prostitutes?
    Does promiscuous sexual activity reduce the need for people to buy sex?
    Is "unable to obtain sex any other way" a legitimate reason to use pr
    2 days ago
    BC

    No.
    No.
    It can be.
    Oh yes.
    It can be.
    Yes. Taxed too.
    It can be.
    Don't know.
    Don't know.
    Don't know.
    As legitimate as any other reason, I suppose.
  • Masculinity


    He's an interesting man and significant figure in U.S. History (he brought the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius along with him on his trip along the Amazon, by the way, which I think impressive). But I find his daughter Alice even more interesting.
  • Masculinity
    Christianity is kind of odd in that the central figure doesn't really demonstrate characteristics we'd think of a masculine.frank

    I agree, but consider the "muscular christianity" movement in Victorian England and beyond. Thomas Hughes, the author of Tom Brown's School Days, is credited with popularizing it. Muscular Christianity is characterized by "manliness" and "masculinity of character." Team sports figure in its development; scouting (as in boy scouts) with its emphasis on vigor and health became popular around the same time. God made men to be manly, as that is necessary to subdue the earth and protect women and the weak, you see. TR was a big fan of it, in fact.

    Tom Brown's School Days at least served to inspire the marvelous Flashman series of novels by George MacDonald Frasier (Flashman was the villainous cheater and bully who was the chief opponent of the heroic Tom Brown).

    It's amazing what purposes Christianity can be made to serve.
  • Masculinity

    There's a book of hers I have but haven't yet begun reading: Putting Philosophy to Work: Inquiry and its Place in Culture. It looks good. It may include some of the essays you mention.
  • Masculinity


    For me, the word "arena" refers to the arena where the Roman ludi took place. Combat by gladiators or the killing of wild beasts for the entertainment of the public. The "man in the arena" is properly a slave engaging in blood sports to amuse others, not the romantic hero portrayed by Roosevelt. TR certainly killed his share of wild beasts for his own amusement, of course, but if he thought of himself as "the man in the arena" I wonder if he understood what it implied.
  • Masculinity
    What are your thoughts regarding the suggestion that 'pragmatists and feminists are necessary partners'? (see my underline below)Amity

    I'm not sure what it means, exactly. I'm not sure what a feminist-pragmatist or a pragmatist-feminist might be. I know of a pragmatist I admire who is a woman. She's Susan Haack, a valiant defender of pragmatism from the vagaries of such as Rorty, who thinks Dewey was a postmodernist before postmodernism became popular. I don't know if she qualifies as a feminist.

    Dewey felt that philosophy, and specifically the process of inquiry as he described it, should be applied to social problems. If that's what feminists do, I suppose that has an association with pragmatism.
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)


    I'm unable to make the distinction you seem to make along with the majority, which you describe as follows:

    According to the Supreme Court, being black in and of itself does not CAUSE you to have certain qualities, but it CAN cause you to experience circumstances that (by means of your response to those circumstances) creates those certain qualities.Voyeur

    So, being black can cause you to have certain experiences. You have them because you're black. You wouldn't have them, then, if you weren't black.

    The experiences you have which are caused by the fact you're black can cause you to have certain qualities, but you don't have them because you're black. Yes?

    But if they're caused by experiences resulting from the fact you're black, must it not be the case that you have them because you're black? You wouldn't have had those experiences but for the fact you're black. You wouldn't have had them if you were white, for example.
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    As a non-lawyer I suspect that if this lawsuit rises to the level of SCOTUS review, the Supremes will vote 6-3 in favor of pro-"legacy preference", etc.180 Proof

    I thought this decision would spawn litigation, but this is pretty fast work on the part of plaintiffs' lawyers. Of course, the decision will also have the result that those involved in admissions decisions will be bombarded with essays of the kind the majority so blithely referenced at the conclusion of their opinion. But I think the decision will create all sorts of legal advocacy.

    A court which held, previously, that spending money is speech in Citizens United and is now composed of even more justices with a similar mindset isn't likely to find any problem with a "legacy preference" or with preference being given to the children of large donors to an institution of higher education.

    Still, it will be interesting, and revealing, how this litigation proceeds.
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)


    Legacy preferences should certainly be prohibited. So, I believe, should so-called "development cases" where preference is given to the children of wealthy donors. Or perhaps they could write essays describing how being legacies or the children of rich parents has resulted in the development of the individual qualities the majority admires which would contribute to the institution in question, in which case....
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    To dismiss those dissents (as well as concurring opinions), because they have little current use in the courtroom is to miss the point of the dissents/concurrences altogether. They are not written for the courtroom, they are written on and for the issue. Otherwise why write them, if they have no value?Voyeur

    I suspect they may be written for a number of reasons. Perhaps they'll turn out to be useful, sometime. In the here and now, in which a lawyer practices--in which decisions are made, people are impacted, lives are led--the majority opinion determines the law. What the law may be or could be in other circumstances, or should be, is a matter of speculation, and sometimes wishful thinking.

    Do you treat all black people the same? Because all black people are black? Or do you treat them differently based on their personal characteristics, many of which are directly derived from their racial/cultural experiences of being black in a world of systemic racism?Voyeur

    Do you treat all people the same? Or do you acknowledge that some of them should be treated differently "based on their personal characteristics, many of which are directly derived from their racial/cultural experience of being black in a world of systemic racism?"

    I think the majority contends that the Equal Protection Clause provides that all applicants must be treated the same. At the same time, however, they state that the Equal Protection Clause allows some of them to be treated differently due to "their racial/cultural experience of being black (for example) in a world of systemic racism." It would seem to me essential that one must be black to have the "racial/cultural experience of being black in a world of systemic racism."

    It DOES mean the fact that the applicant is black figured into the decision.Voyeur

    Yes. Race is necessarily a factor, as those having the qualities the majority thinks merit consideration will have them because they're black. Now, though, it's necessary that in order for the race of an applicant to be considered, the applicant must establish that they have those qualities due to their race.

    Affirmative Action may have presumed that discrimination takes place, and for that reason those discriminated against should be favored. The majority aren't brazen enough to claim that it has ceased entirely, though they seem to take the position it no longer creates a problem to be remedied and so no longer may be presumed. I think the majority tries to allow race to be considered while maintaining it can't be considered. It simply has made it more difficult for race to be considered, placing the burden on those who've been discriminated against to establish that the discrimination they suffered due to their race has rendered them worthy of consideration despite their race.







    .
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    What Justice Gorsuch concludes regarding Title VI, in this case, is no more binding on a court (and of no more importance to me) than is the ass of a rattus rattus.
    — Ciceronianus

    Of course it's not binding, nowhere did I say it was.
    Voyeur

    Well, try to understand I've never before been asked to render a legal opinion on what a court didn't say in deciding a case, or about a holding it didn't make. It's not something that's come up in my practice. I assumed you were trying to address the actual decision in question.

    And yes, concurring opinions and dissents are generally unimportant in the actual practice of law. I don't advise clients they have a good chance of success based on a dissent or a concurring opinion which differs from the rationale of the majority.

    Many universities have for too long done just the opposite. And in doing so, they have concluded, wrongly, that the touchstone of an individual’s identity is not challenges bested, skills built, or lessons learned but the color of their skin. Our constitutional history does not tolerate that choice. (majority decision)

    I suspect that the musings made in the closing paragraphs of the majority opinion will come to be reqarded as dicta, depending on the spin it's desired to make.

    Regardless, consider. An applicant may submit an essay regarding the wrongs experienced due to racial discrimination. So, the applicants race may be mentioned in the application process. A person reading the essay will, without much effort, rightly infer the applicant to be a member of the race discriminated against. So, the applicant's race will be known by those making the admission decision.

    According to the majority, those making the admission decision may consider the impacts of discrimination against the applicant because of race (e.g. because the applicant is black) in coming to a decision. But, the admission decision cannot be made because the applicant is black, despite the fact that there would have been no discrimination, the impacts of which may be considered, had the applicant not been black.

    Where does the black go? Applicant X should be admitted because of characteristics and abilities arising from discrimination against the applicant because the applicant is black (characteristics and abilities which presumably would not have arisen but for the racial discrimination), but that doesn't mean the fact the applicant is black figured in the decision to admit? It doesn't work, I'm afraid.
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)


    From a lawyer's perspective, concurring opinions are insignificant. It's the decision of the majority that's important. A concurring opinion joins in the holding of the majority, for reasons that are not stated in the majority decision. As a result, they state a rationale or argument that isn't supported by the majority. So, a concurring opinion doesn't constitute precedent. What Justice Gorsuch concludes regarding Title VI, in this case, is no more binding on a court (and of no more importance to me) than is the ass of a rattus rattus. Nonetheless, concurring opinions are cited sometimes in the hope that courts might find them persuasive on particular points, and particularly when a lawyer can't find any good authority on which to rely.

    Also, I think you misunderstand the majority's decision if you think it doesn't rule out consideration of race as a factor in admissions. Let's look at that small portion of the decision you seem to latch onto:

    At the same time, as all parties agree, nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. (citation omitted). But, despite the dissent’s assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today. (A dissenting opinion is generally not the best source of legal advice on how to comply with the majority opinion.) “[W]hat cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly. The Constitution deals with substance, not shadows,” and the prohibition against racial discrimination is “levelled at the thing, not the name.” (citation omitted). A benefit to a student who overcame racial discrimination, for example, must be tied to that student’s courage and determination. Or a benefit to a student whose heritage or culture motivated him or her to assume a leadership role or attain a particular goal must be tied to that student’s unique ability to contribute to the university. In other words, the student must be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual—not on the basis of race.

    The majority seems to be conjuring up a kind of being, or creature, whose race and or cultural heritage subjected him or her (or they, I don't know) to discriminated against in some fashion, but who was able to overcome this as an individual (in ways somehow not arising from the individual's race or which are apart from the individual's race) and contribute to the university. I have no idea how such a determination may be made But the statement that a person must not be treated on the basis of race seems rather clear.

    What the majority prohibits is consideration of race as a factor in admissions, clearly enough. That consideration was allowed in the past under other case law which it was thought met the "strict scrutiny" standards which have to be met for governmental action to sanctioned though it is constitutionally questionable.
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    ↪Ciceronianus MAGA Supremes are pulling the plug on stare decisis in judicial review? And yet Biden still opposes 'packing the court'. :shade:180 Proof

    Yes, I see they're at it again. I haven't read the latest opinions from On High, yet. I suspect they'll be additional examples of what I would call "Legal Scholasticism." Reasoning, sometimes intricate, based on fixed dogma which transcends precedent. I wonder how many of them were taught by Jesuits or Dominicans. Most of them are Catholics.

    In fact, there are exceptions to the rule of stare decisis. There was a time when the Supremes were condemned as being activists, ignoring the rule with impunity. Now, they're reactionaries, doing just that as well.
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    It's such a chore reading these decisions. Particularly when one isn't paid to do so.

    The Equal Protection Clause came into being after the Civil War and, when it isn't being ignored, has inspired an amount of litigation which easily rivals that inspired by the older dictates of our Constitution, which seems sometimes to have been drafted with that purpose in mind. There's a good argument, given the timing of its adoption, that it was adopted specifically to end racial discrimination, particularly against blacks. For a long time, though, it was ignored.

    Then it wasn't. The Supremes began generating opinions which sanctioned legal measures which favored certain races and minorities in an effort to remediate the disfavor of them which continued regardless of the Clause. The policy behind those decisions was, I think, one which had its basis in the belief that in order to attain a society in which all would have equal protection it was necessary that the inequality which characterized the law and its enforcement be reduced by according an additional benefit to those victimized by that inequality.

    The fact that the Equal Protection Law was adopted in an effort to end racial discrimination makes it rather difficult to contend that policies intended to limit or even eliminate such discrimination are in violation of it. But now the Supreme Court has revealed that racial discrimination no longer exists. So, if there ever was a basis on which desegregate schools, for example, or protect voting rights, or provide for greater access to higher education for some, there no longer is a need to do so. It follows that affirmative action instead of being supported by the Equal Protection Clause now violates it.

    In fact, affirmative action has always been treated rather gingerly by the courts in light of the language of the Equal Protection Clause. The language of the Clause seems to admit of no exceptions. I think it's mistake to treat the Constitution as Holy Writ and believe we regularly find reasonable grounds on which exceptions to it may be and are made, myself. But ultimately I think that what this decision comes down to is the fact that a majority of the Supremes think, in effect, that everything's okay now; there's no discrimination anymore, or at least that discrimination is no longer a serious concern except in increasingly limited circumstances. The playing field has been leveled, saith the Supremes.
  • The matriarchy
    Yet, when confronted with a woman of high intelligence, social position, and education --- daughters of the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt were educated in Alexandria along with sons --- both of those manly men were inclined to "cooperate" with her --- at least in private. Even to the point of reluctantly accepting wise military strategy. But their own Roman leaders and military compatriots kept urging them to get rid of that "gypo" witch, who had beguiled them.Gnomon

    Caesar was quite randy, it seems. He was called "every woman's man and every man's woman."
    \
    It's interesting that women in ancient Rome could do much more than women in ancient Greece could, and in that sense may be said to have been "more free." For example, Roman women could buy property, run businesses, make wills and inherit wealth, get divorced and obtain a paying job. The women of ancient Greece couldn't do any of those things.

    The relationship between Caesar and Cleopatra was perceived differently by the Romans than that between Anthony and Cleopatra. Caesar's relations with Cleopatra took place after Pompey had been defeated and killed. Caesar had many enemies in Rome, but there was no civil war taking place. There may have been fears of Cleopatra having too much influence over him, and concerns regarding whether their child would take on the powers granted his father as dictator, but Cleopatra was actually well received by the rich and powerful of Rome when she stayed there in Caesar's villa, and was visited there even by Cicero. Egypt was considered an ally of Rome.

    After Caesar's assassination, Rome was occupied with civil war again. Anthony was allied with Caesar's adopted son, Octavian, while the assassins were disposed of, and then formed an alliance with him and Lepidus and more or less agreed to each of them having authority over certain portions of Rome's dominions. Anthony's relations with Cleopatra began at this time, Octavian and Anthony then fell out and a new civil war began, in which Anthony's association with Cleopatra despite his marriage to Octavian's sister, and his alliance with her in the war, was thought to represent a choice of a foreigner and a foreign kingdom in opposition to Rome. I think it was the fact she represented a foreign power in alliance with Anthony that made her an object and fear and contempt in Rome more than the fact that she was a woman although it seems clear that Octavian's propaganda portrayed her as having seduced Anthony to do her bidding.

    The Romans seems to have respected Cleopatra, in a sense, after her fleet and that of Anthony was defeated at the battle of Actium. Horace wrote of her in one of his odes on how she refused to surrender to Octavian and be displayed in his triumph:

    But she, intending to perish more nobly,
    showed no sign of womanish fear at the sword,
    nor did she even attempt to win
    with her speedy ships to some hidden shore.

    And she dared to gaze at her fallen kingdom
    with a calm face, and touch the poisonous asps
    with courage, so that she might drink down
    their dark venom, to the depths of her heart,

    growing fiercer still, and resolving to die:
    scorning to be taken by hostile galleys,
    and, no ordinary woman, yet queen
    no longer, be led along in proud triumph.
  • Pointlessness of philosophy
    I don’t know, ask that dude in the quoteDarkneos

    That dude in the quote isn't interested in questions, or answers. That dude in the quote is content to be discontented.
  • Masculinity
    So the opening question: What is a man?Moliere

    Well, don't ask Rudyard Kipling. It seems he thought a man to be a kind of demi-god, judging from his poem If, and told his (fictional) son in that poem he had to meet the impossibly high standards described in it in order to be one. He managed to arrange for his real son John to have a commission in the army in WWI, despite the fact that John had been rejected because of his eyesight was terrible. John was killed in battle, aged 18.

    I doubt it's possible to define "a man" in any non-trivial sense, and think it's not worth the trouble.
  • Juneteenth as national holiday.
    Well, to be honest, I don't give a rat's ass for the Juneteenth celebration -- it just isn't part of my heritage.BC

    I confess that I don't celebrate Juneteenth. Nor do I celebrate MLK's birthday, or Washington's birthday, or Labor Day, or Memorial Day, or any other national holiday with the possible exception of Thanksgiving and Christmas, if by "celebrate" we mean anything more than taking the day off from work if we're allowed to do so. The notion that we must or should celebrate any holiday--or anything, for that matter-seems peculiar, if we refer to engaging in any enjoyable or happy activity. If we celebrate a holiday by taking the day off from work, however, I'll celebrate them all, regardless of who or what the holiday is claimed to note.
  • Juneteenth as national holiday.
    What makes a holiday deserving of being a holiday?TiredThinker

    This thread should be transferred to the "Philosophy of Holidays" section.
  • The Indictment


    It's not quite as simple as you seem to think. The Armstrong cases dealt with the application of several federal records laws, and specifically the distinction between records governed by FOIA and those addressed by the Presidential Records Act. FOIA address federal agencies; part of the executive branch. They discussed the civil remedies available to those who seek records under both laws. They're not exactly on point.

    As this Memorandum Decision itself notes, however, what it refers to as Armstrong I was subsequently interpreted by the D.C. Circuit (the federal appellate court for the D.C. District Court) in what it refers to as Armstrong II. In that subsequent decision (at 1 F.3d 127) the D.C. Circuit noted that Armstrong I ""the Armstrong I court was not addressing the initial classification of existing materials." Armstrong v. Executive Office of the President, Office of Admin., 1 F.3d 1274, 1294 (D.C. Cir. 1993) In other words, Armstrong I didn't address the initial classification of materials as presidential or personal records. Presidential and Personal Records and he difference between them are defined in the PRA. That classification is not at the sole discretion of a president, but is subject to court review:

    "Thus, although the PRA impliedly precludes judicial review of the President's decisions concerning the creation, management, and disposal of presidential records during his term of office, Armstrong I, 924 F.2d at 291, the courts may review guidelines outlining what is, and what is not, a "presidential record" to ensure that materials that are not subject to the PRA are not treated as presidential records. We remand to the district court to conduct this inquiry."

    Armstrong v. Executive Office of the President, Office of Admin., 1 F.3d 1274, 1294 (D.C. Cir. 1993).

    Regardless, though, the indictment isn't limited to the PRA or civil remedies available under it. It involves violation of the Espionage Act, obstruction, and other criminal matters.