We could very quickly decarbonize if our leaders wanted to. — Xtrix
We do have to be careful, though, because observation is theory-laden. — Pie
It might be like figuring out if you are driving on the correct side of the road. Norms are enforced more or less gently. A young man might think he's a great violinist and continue to fail to impress those who recognize such talent professionally. A humble young woman might think she's only mediocre at math and continually amaze her teachers with her genius. Probably both will move toward correction. No man is an island. We've evolved to work together, respond to censure and praise. — Pie
We can see that the fault in this justification lies within the assumption that a change to the temporal continuity of existence would necessarily be observed by you. Since this is a required premise in that justification, and it is not a sound premise, truth cannot be ascertained through that justification, and doubt is summoned. — Metaphysician Undercover
a. "snow is white" is true iff snow is white
b. snow is white iff the mind-independent material world is a certain way
c. Therefore, "snow is white" is true iff the mind-independent material world is a certain way
That would be closer to the traditional correspondence theory. — Michael
I can hardly doubt there are plums in the fridge if I'm looking at them. — Janus
Sure, but this is a comment about belief. It's psychology, not grammar. — Pie
I suggest that knowledge is not about certainty but rather about protocols. Do I know that 2–√ is irrational ? Yes. But I can't gaze on it. I just know how to justify that claim.
But let's say that I think I saw them with my own eyes. Perhaps my memory is incorrect. Perhaps I hallucinated. Metaphysical certainty is a dead end. In fact, it only makes sense with the help of an absolute concept of truth. Assume P. — Pie
But this only works in contexts, the empirical or the logical, where it is decidable just what being warranted or justified consists in, — Janus
How are such contexts to be decided if not rationally ? This is as simple as offering reasons for claim that a context is or is not subject to rational norms. Admittedly people sometimes just stop talking and wage war. — Pie
We've discussed this some already, of course. To me philosophy is not simply constituted by (potentially) justifiable claims. It makes such claims about such claims. It discusses justification in the first place. This is human self-knowledge. We make explicit the nature of our behavior-coordinating 'chirps and squeaks.' This surely involves creativity. Where do shiny new hypotheses come from ? The strong philosopher is like a non-fiction poet, not only seeing human reality in a new way but making a case for this being better than a merely exciting madness and instead a deeper and truer rationality. I agree with you that the point is to put more life in to life, to live more vividly. It's not given that self-knowledge is the best path toward this goal, but I think it's a path. — Pie
I could be trusting the word of another. Knowledge is about warranted assertion. If I turn out to be wrong, I can make a case for my right to have made the incorrect claim. For instance, I trusted a trustworthy person.
The path you seem to be going down is too subjective in my view. You are going 'first-person' and invoking uncheckable private experience. — Pie
But I don't think certain pragmatist versions of truth were successful. — Pie
Whatever. You appear to be returning to point that have already been addressed rather than progressing the discussion.
You moved back from what is true to what is understood, relevant, known, believed. — Banno
I agree. Call it prejudice, but telling the truth seems beautiful and noble to me. I connect this to intuitions that Kantian articulated. Lying steals autonomy from others, treats them as a means. — Pie
hat you don't know that it is true does not make it not true... — Banno
So you have beliefs you think are not true? — Banno
But you claimed that one cannot associate a truth value with a proposition unless there is a relationship between the saying and seeing/imagining... an apparently antirealist view. — Banno
We care about beliefs because they are the things we take to be true. — Banno
But I also think that truth plays a role in a structure. Mostly we care about belief, and 'true' seems like a tool for talking about beliefs, perhaps in imagining them as certain, for instance. As Brandom might put it, we've invented words that allow us to talk about our thinking. Humans become self-consciously logical through inventing concepts like inference and truth...which 'only' made explicit what they are already in fact doing. — Pie
If I tell you that there are plums in the icebox, I'm talking about those plums in that icebox. 'Phenomenologically' there's no detour through my imagination. The meaning of the assertion is worldly, directly revealing our shared situation. A rational reconstruction might include your motives, what you pictured, but this would be semantically secondary, in my view. — Pie
Means nothing to me; just sounds vaguely like an insult.Topic slide again. — Banno
Further, one chooses between a realist and an antirealist grammar. The best grammar for cats and mats is realist. — Banno
Fair enough. But that's not the intention of 'that cat is on the mat.' Because we can say 'I am picturing a cat on the mat just now." We reveal the world to one another in our true claims. — Pie
The cat isn't on the mat if someone pictures it to be on the mat. It is on the mat if it is on the mat. — Banno
Are we to understand the string of words as a 'picture' ? Do we really need this metaphor ?
I can see why it's tempting. We are such visual creatures that we use visual metaphors for grasping meaning. — Pie
Here's my answer: that the cat is on the mat is a use of the sentence "the cat is on the mat". We have, not an association between two differing things, but two ways of making use of the very same thing. — Banno
What might that correspondence be? — Banno
Note that we don't want a string of words to correspond to cat-on-the-mat-ness. So even 'correspond' is too much machinery here and only makes a mess. — Pie
Are you also a deflationist about truth ? If we focus only on the true asserts in the concept system, that'd seem to be the world itself. Any actual individual will presumably have false beliefs. So we might talk of a imperfectly grasped world for this individual. — Pie
That actuality in its 'nudity' is hard to make sense of. The actuality of the cat being on the mat is that the cat is on the mat. Redundant, it seems to me.
Folks might use their visual imagination and 'see' the cat on the mat as the 'real thing.' But this makes the truthmaker inaccesibly private and implicitly visual. — Pie
Is Heidegger also too Cartesian? He rejected truth as correctness in favor of truth as whatever discloses itself to Dasein. — Joshs
It's perhaps as if a crystalline web of concepts sits in a bath of ineffable of sensation and emotion. — Pie
I don't mean that you are a relativist or anything. — Pie
It's only when we theorize and slow down that we infer that we must be 'automatically' synthesizing objects from light hitting our retina, but surely our sense organs, along with the rest of us, take their own unique tours through this world. — Pie
Consider the claim that the common world is 'a formal stipulation based on resemblance and memory.' Isn't this claim itself, according to itself,a part of 'a formal stipulation based on resemblance and memory' ? — Pie
My hunch is that the visual imagination is what makes the correspondence theory of truth attractive. — Pie
re you tempted to say that we all live in different worlds ? But, if you were to say that, wouldn't you somehow talking about my world, while claiming to be stuck in your own ? — Pie
I can't really object. Getting the life back into life sounds good. It is still a project, an individual vision anyway of the Better Thing to do, something of a metanarrative maybe (which is fine.) — Pie
. If Jane's belief might be wrong and if Jane's belief is true then Jane's belief is true and might be wrong. — Michael
However, states of consciousness may be also compatible with the sublime, as being those of deep intersubjectivity, such as in core understanding of ethics, intelligence and wisdom which can be applied in human affairs in life. — Jack Cummins
Perhaps that is why our human thought, philosophy and scientific progress has so many loose ends, we have simply come to a rabbit hole with no end. For, it is the way we define those truths in our being which provides a veridical account of their truth, both within the scientific materialist state of consciousness as well as within an enlightened state of consciousness. — intrapersona
1. "p" is true iff p
2. "'p' is true" means "p" — Michael
The issue with the first is that it entails that all propositions exist: — Michael
This is problematic because it suggests that propositions exist as abstract entities (à la Platonism) which may be unacceptable to some. — Michael
