Intent could simply be a mental/neurological response to some stimuli. — Harry Hindu

Interesting, care to expand?

Willpower, like I said before, seems like a 'capacity' or a general ability to control urges and manage actions - instead of eating a delicious pizza, deciding not to eat it.. — aporiap

So, can willpower bring oneself out of depression? What's your take on that issue?

Haven't smoked weed in more than a decade. Don't jump to conclusions. — Nils Loc

Never meant to intend that. I didn't assume you smoked pot. Sorry.

I stopped dreaming (or being able to recall them) along time ago. — Nils Loc

I'm sorry to hear that. One of the main reasons I abstain from smoking pot is due to not wanting to interfere with my dream recall.

I have this notion in my mind that lucid dreaming is in a sense achieving for a brief while enlightenment. It's as if one is cognizant about one's dreaming and surroundings and the ability to alter one's surroundings that are enlightening.

One way for me to tell that I am dreaming is that I feel fundamentally "happy" when I dream. I feel free from the constraints of reality and can explore something at ease whilst in my dream.

Does anyone else feel "happy" in their dreams? It is a peculiar sense of happiness. Like, when one falls in love or something like that. A spontaneous sense of happiness, just for its own sake.

Isn't there something philosophical that one can state about lucid dreaming? Mainly, the awareness that one is dreaming is indicative of the fact that God-hood might exist if one can dictate one's surroundings and thoughts for any conscious entity?

To summarize, willpower, motivation, desire, and emotions are not a volition. The intent is a volition.

Why do countries do that? Hasn't it been demonstrated ad infinitum that this is simply the wrong strategy to implement in trying to accomplish a goal? Or is it a sound and successful strategy? I'm not quite sure if, in the long run, it's a sound strategy to implement.

What else do you feel you'd need in order for an intention? — aporiap

I'm not quite sure; but, there is a distinction I want to draw out between willpower and intentionality. Intentionality stands above willpower in that motivation and willpower is directed at some goal. But, here I go on about "depression". When the way out of the bottle is unknown to the fly, then willpower seems like the only thing that intent can resort to. So, yeah, willpower, willpower, willpower.

I've been trying to make sense of it. Perhaps there are some dream interpreters who can help me here, especially considering this important plottwist: I don't actually have a brother. — Tzeentch

That was one intense dream. It seems some part of you really wanted to get some point across with the false awakening part. I have no idea what the point of dreams are. There are some interpretations that it's just the brain organizing content; but, I find dreams too deeply emotional to brush them aside as "the brain haphazardly organizing shit".

I've been having a lot of lucid dreams recently. They usually entail me going to the beach and relaxing there. Most often I don't try and interfere with my dreams. I just let them play out lucidly to observe what the heck they are trying to tell me.

Just this night I had a dream where I was working on a nuclear reactor that was a threat of melting down. I realized that this was a dream by doing a simple reality check of keeping my mouth closed and blocking my nostrils to prevent me from breathing. Once I realized that I could still breath, then I realized that it was a dream. The surroundings of the dream changed to my room that I sleep in, and I then flew out of my window towards the beach. I then met my sister, and we started talking about psychology. The sun was shining brightly outside and I was on warm sand near the beach.

One thing that surprises me about my dreams, is that I haven't had a horrific dream that you often read about online, since forever. It seems I am in good standing with my conscious or unconscious that it doesn't bother me too much. On second thought this isn't entirely true. I have had a dream where I had the intent to murder someone with an ax, which did bother me. But, this dream took place something like a year ago. I talked about it with my mother and she told me it was just a dream. That's at least how I interpret things that go on in a dream, as just a dream. I just try and enjoy them.

That is not to say I disregard my dreams. I often pay close attention to their content and happenings. They are perhaps, the pinnacle of self-generated content. It is a close encounter or as close as possible to get wrt. to one's psyche.

[decide or intend are synonymous] — aporiap

Are they?

So the intention is still 'directed' toward the goal of getting better, but is not put into action — aporiap

Then, what is the deciding factor in getting better? The intent is still undirected. One doesn't know how the fly gets out of the bottle it is stuck in. Is it a matter of trial and error to try different methods of getting better or is the outcome of this undirected intentionality, manifest in trial and error, spontaneous? This would make "intent" somewhat synonymous with "willpower". But, the two aren't the same.

I did not say that depression is just a habit. It is very much a combination of factors, many of them beyond one's direct control. I don't know anything about "spontaneous remission"
I do think the "thought loop" does involve habits and it is one of the doors open to something new. — Valentinus

OK, I understand. But, what is so difficult in the case of "depression", that people get stuck in it? Why is it so self-reinforcing?

So, not to get stuck in a loop here. How does one create a goal when confronted with undirected intentionality?

You are the only one who can introduce new habits. — Valentinus

But, harping on the example of "depression", it isn't a habit. Just a state of mind. Anyway, to want to get better one has to will it. But, if that will is undirected or disorganized, then how do you know when you get better if you don't know how-to. Does that make remission spontaneous?

Your model precludes helping yourself.
Unless the condition changes without your help, your model is part of the problem. — Valentinus

No, it can encompass helping yourself. But, this isn't something that can be done alone or simply will oneself out of it. Anyway, when one is depressed or otherwise known as "learned helplessness", then what is required to realize the intent to get better, then?

I have the undirected intentionality to get better; but, I don't know how to realize it. Thus, what is left to do?

That sounds more like an unconscious intention verses a willpower. I still don't understand how an intention can be undirected since it seems by definition to always be directed toward the completion of a goal. — aporiap

Yes, but, again taking the example of "depression". I have the intent to get better but it is undirected, otherwise, people would be able to simply will themselves out of that state of mind, which is quite rare. Hence, what do you think about this "undirected" aspect of intent? It seems more like, as you mentioned, and an unconscious thing that is in the background and never entirely realized unless some goal is accomplished unknowingly.

And if you didn't try to get better, then could you really say that you intended to get better? — Harry Hindu

This seems to introduce a paradox. When is an intent realized or conceived and when it is not? Does this reduce the issue to what is an intent? Hence, we're perpetually stuck in never knowing what we really want?

Your model does not permit an effective agent, it only defends a powerless one. — Valentinus

I think, that isn't true. A powerless agent can get better under the circumstances that willpower has no say in the matter. Intentionality is undirected and futile. The immediate responses are resignation, frustration, and perpetuation of depressive affect. Now, I don't know how to get out of that loop, that many people face when confronted with crippling depression.

Habits are distinct from intent. So, how does habit relate to undirected intentionality?

Yes. I would want to change that. But, how?

It's interesting how parallels can be drawn to what happened in Syria fairly recently compared to Afghanistan.

It sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. — Valentinus

Very much so. Depression itself isn't unbearable. It's the thought loop and feeling of powerlessness with respect to it that is the source of frustration. Eventually you just learn to accept it and cope with it in my opinion.

Do you have any thoughts regarding my alternative? — Valentinus

Could you repeat it in different words. I'm not sure if I understood correctly the first time.

Thank you.

If the intention is "undirected" because of a lack willpower, you are proposing a difference between the telos being sought and the energy or power necessary for it to become actual. I thought I was describing your model before offering an alternative. — Valentinus

No, it's not necessarily a lack of willpower. It can be just the case that the world of nature is preventing it from being realized. But, in regards to depression, the intent is to achieve remission, therefore I'm not sure if willpower can have anything to do with remission from depression. It seems like one of those cases where it's a no win situation and has to be endured until something external changes? Obviously, one can be supremely frustrated about the whole predicament, and hence that is a secondary undirected intentional aspect of being depressed, yes? A third aspect of this whole issue is the realization that one is powerless in the face of crippling depression if pharmacology and therapy don't help. This is when things become dire, and the intent turns against itself and suicide is thought as a viable option?

Does that sound right?

Lacking "the willpower to get better" may not be a helpful way to frame the matter. It separates intention from agency in terms that are self defeating. — Valentinus

How does it separate intention from an agency? I don't understand where the divisions in the mind are taking place?

Yes, it is the motivation by desire on which that the eastern branches of thought focus. — ernestm

So, it's not only intent? What comes first, desire, then intent, yes?

Then what is intent (back to square one)?

I'm going to flat out ask, why has Afghanistan been such a failure in terms of the normal progression of affairs in the region? Is it because of the constant wars, lack of natural resources, geographical location?

What's the reason (not a sole factor; but, factor(s)).

I'm sorry to say this, but it appears the Afghans have had 20 years to get their act together and have been unable to do so. — Jake

This is presumptuous. The reason is that of foreign affairs and interest (interference) in the region.

in some cases, such as taoist and zen thought, the mistake is acting with intent at all. In Taoism it is because the world in which we live is so chaotic as to be essentially random, so any effort to force it in any one direction is futile. In zen the mistake is seen as being acting based upon desire, as fulfillment of desire does not result in fulfillment of the self, and therefore, acting in interest of the self's own intent results in lack of satisfaction. — ernestm

So, is it desire that's the issue here, or intent? I never really knew how to differentiate Buddhism from Zen or Taoism.

What do you mean that all intents are misdirected? It would seem to me that intent without a goal is un/misdirected? How do you correct that feature of intentionality?

What if the intent is undirected? I am depressed and I want to get better but don't know how to. Then what?

I think actually intent itself is a motivation caused by desire towards an objective, and a goal is the result of achieving that objective. — ernestm

What about if that intent is undirected? Then do we count it as a desire or some form of willpower?

Intent is a goal. What you intend is the goal you have in mind. — Harry Hindu

Intent seems separate from a goal. For example, intent to do harm is something separate from a goal? More like a motivation or emotion?

It is a term I invented for the sake of discussion. Any thoughts about it?

Hmm. I haven't read too much from those authors. I'm thinking more along the lines, of treating those people with such contempt, which is ridiculous due to our own actions that spawned their existence.

:victory:

Brzezinski did what he had to do following the book: help Muslim factions kill each other. — DiegoT

What book is that? Something spawned from the pits of hell?

What do you mean?

What sort of thing is information? — Banno

What is it?

Thanks for the responses, everyone. This has been an interesting thread to read. :blush: