In logic, any atheist who posits God does not exist has the precarious an untenable position of defending his proposition.

The most prudent thing an atheist could do is to say nothing. Otherwise, he has essentially endorsed another belief system. — 3017amen

It's clear, 3017, that you are impervious to sense. Try reading my post. Give it a try. Else your reply is a confused non sequitor.

Eh. If it's the Abrahamic God, no thanks. That would be a nightmare. Most of us would probably go to hell. I'd prefer not to burn for eternity. It's a bit long.

There are other Gods. I don't know. What is better some strange life after this or eternal sleep?

As Mark Twain said:

"I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

Put like that, maybe it's not so bad. Heaven knows there are situations here in life much worse than not being. In any case, fear and pain are for the here and now, not before or after.

Give it a try. Else your reply is a confused non sequitor. — tim wood

I found it to be a non sequitur :joke:

That isn't always the case. Some atheists may start from a feeling of superiority or, as I said, from fear. Not all atheists are the same. — Apollodorus

I believe Aristotle made the point that there is no accounting for some people. If you wish to have at straw-men, have at it, but it's not an honorable or even ultimately useful pursuit

The most prudent thing an atheist could do is to say nothing. Otherwise, he has essentially endorsed another belief system. — 3017amen

Nothing more true than that. Unfortunately, atheists often try to impose their views on others which is quite strange really, but that's what Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, and many others have done, murdering many millions of innocent people in the process:

“A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists” F Engels, “On Authority”, Almanaco Republicano, 1874

The most prudent thing an atheist could do is to say nothing. Otherwise, he has essentially endorsed another belief system. — 3017amen

I'm not sure you're following this discussion.

Let's grant that an atheist says something. Let's grant that said atheist cannot defend it. What has that to do with whether this atheist is afraid of the thought of there being anything higher than himself?

Now incoherence. Can't you do anything else?

If you haven't figured out by now Tim wood is another Einsteinian fanatical atheist :grin:

He gets very defensive about his atheism. Even more emotional than 180 !

Let's grant that an atheist says something. Let's grant that said atheist cannot defend it. What has that to do with whether this atheist is afraid of the thought of there being anything higher than himself? — InPitzotl

We understand that. But it isn't a reason to deny the theoretical possibility that in some cases at least atheism may be motivated by fear of something higher than oneself.

What atheism? Did you not read that I am a believer? Try reading, and for comprehension I'd say you are a fool, but more accurately simply toxic. You appear to take pride in your ability to annoy at a distance.

We understand that. But it isn't a reason to deny the theoretical possibility that in some cases at least atheism may be motivated by fear of something higher than oneself. — Apollodorus

The question really is not what this or that individual might do or might not do - or if it is, you win. But in that case it was a useless contribution. Because mainly it's a big-time category error. You appear to be attempting to prove something about a class from an individual, which is either ignorant or if not that, then vicious.

Why can't we all calm down a bit? Otherwise we follow in the footsteps of @180 and we don't get anywhere. Total waste of time.

Personally, I think both sides have some valid points to make. Perhaps one side more than the other. But this should be discussed rationally.

I'm confused, I guess if you are able and can show the fortitude to poke holes in my statement, then more than likely I could be convinced:

In logic, any atheist who posits God does not exist has the precarious an untenable position of defending his/that proposition.

The most prudent thing an atheist could do is to say nothing. Otherwise, he has essentially endorsed another belief system.


Please take your time and careful reply...try to resist the temptation of an emotional response if you will. Thanks.

So, you're saying you're a believer. Believer in what?

Indeed! You have, near as I can tell made a singular conjecture about some individual, which I at least grant without argument. But what beyond that?

any atheist who posits God does not exist has — 3017amen

If you read my post, you could not have failed to note that just about the whole point of it is that the atheist "take" is principled and reasoned, and limited. He, or she, says, "There is no evidence." Your response, then simply misses the target and hits the straw man.

So, you're saying you're a believer. Believer in what? — Apollodorus

From just above:

I myself find all the meaning of "g/God" contained in the only place and way that it can exist, as an idea. But it is an idea that in this modern era gets over the wall and confuses people into thinking it's real. — tim wood

The question is "Do atheists hope there is no God?" Are we allowed to find an answer or make suggestions as to what the answer might be? I think we are.

If atheists entertain the hope that there is no God as suggested in the question, what might be the reason for that hope? Could it be fear? I don't see why not.

My answer: if they hope such, then they're not atheists.

I myself find all the meaning of "g/God" contained in the only place and way that it can exist, as an idea. — tim wood

Maybe some atheists are afraid of having the idea of God in their head/mind. That wouldn't be such an unusual proposition. The atheist wants to have the totality of his mental space to himself, therefore he can't tolerate the idea of God. Could this be the case of @180?

But it isn't a reason to deny the theoretical possibility that in some cases at least atheism may be motivated by fear of something higher than oneself. — Apollodorus

I think you're missing the objection. It is theoretically possible that some atheist somewhere is scared of a being higher than his/her self.

But you have treated at least a variant of this seriously at least once:

If you've got a degree in "cognitive psych" then why can't you explain atheists' fear of religion? — Apollodorus

...that phrasing suggests something quite distinct from "in some cases at least"; it suggests that this is a representative pattern.

But as it stands, you still have yet to offer any justification that this is indeed the case.

Could this be the case of 180? — Apollodorus

And this is where you get even more nefarious. Apparently, @180 Proof has a condition; he's got a hidden fear of a being higher than himself he does not himself recognize, that drove him to research cognitive psychology. And the proof for this is that questioning it has not yet been proven, and his reaction to your gaslighting is emotional.

Here's where I stand by the way in my expected burdens. That you might find among 7 billion citizens on the planet a particular atheist who is scared of a higher being? Fairly reasonable, but still need at least one good reason to buy it. That this is a representative pattern of atheists demanding an explanation in cognitive psychology? That smells quite dubious to me. That 180 Proof fits your descriptions? That sounds like an irresponsible fantasy.

Do atheists actively not want God to exist? — Georgios Bakalis

I definitely would not want any God dreamt up by men/women to exist. That could only be a horror show.

Maybe some atheists are afraid of having the idea of God in their head/mind. That wouldn't be such an unusual proposition. The atheist wants to have the totality of his mental space to himself, therefore he can't tolerate the idea of God. Could this be the case of 180? — Apollodorus

Maybe if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses on the ground. The whole issue of straw man is that you can adduce any example you want and dress it up as a man and shoot arrows into it. To be rational, to my way of thinking, is to abjure fallacious thinking and argument. So if all you're about is ""maybe, if...," then sure, but you really haven't said anything. And by the way, why do you care what an atheist thinks or how or why he thinks it? Has one been bothering you?

As to @180 Proof, I am sure that whatever fantasy you may have about the author of his posts, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the man.

It is theoretically possible that some atheist somewhere is scared of a being higher than his/her self. — InPitzotl

Why "some atheist somewhere"? Either (1) you accept the possibility or (2) you don't. If you do, then why object to it? And why try to qualify it? Something isn't right there, don't you think?

Something isn't right there, don't you think? — Apollodorus

Yes. I quoted the thing that's not quite right. Here it is again:

If you've got a degree in "cognitive psych" then why can't you explain atheists' fear of religion? — Apollodorus

I quoted it in my first post.

You're pretending to be more reasonable than you evidentially are being.

And you keep replying, over and over and over. And yet, none of your replies justify this level of speculation.

And by the way, why do you care what an atheist thinks or how or why he thinks it? — tim wood

To answer the OP question? How else can we determine whether or not the atheist entertains the hope that there is no God? And why does it bother you so much?

It wasn't me who brought up the issue of "degree in cognitive psych". How does it answer the OP question or anything?

An atheist so-called, or the atheist? And my problem is being unable to let fools or foolishness pass where they or it doesn't belong, although with the politics of the last four years I improve, of necessity..

It wasn't me who brought up the issue of "degree in cognitive psych". How does it answer the OP question or anything? — Apollodorus

How does it answer anything? Well, that was a response to this:

People do tend to be reluctant to admit their own fears but that doesn't mean that those fears don't exist. Ask psychologists and they'll tel you. — Apollodorus

...sounds pretty relevant to me. You speculated about fears people have that they don't admit, and appealed to psychologists. 180 proof has a degree in cognitive psychology.

I read that as a pretty reasonable response.

I read that as a pretty reasonable response.[/quote]

I don't. Anyone can have a degree in anything. Stating "I have a degree" isn't an argument in this context.

From the statement "I have a degree" it doesn't logically follow that atheists can't have a hope that there is no God or that they can't have a fear of the idea of God.