Really? No one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBwzNAV4sWs&t=218s (It's less than 5 minutes)

When they say liberate Palestine they mean all of it.

1) What do you say should be done now about the hostages? Something? Anything? Nothing? If something, what, exactly?

2) You added to the video you reference above, "Free Palestine!" What exactly do you mean by that?

Today it would be unthinkable for the US to let itself get bogged down in a (ground) war in the Middle-East. — Tzeentch

At least if it would be Saudi-Arabia, then yes. Even Trump would defend the Saudi oil fields. And btw this was the major threat that the annexation of Kuwait posed.

Assuming that the belligerent would be Iran. But of course it could be that the Gulf States themselves would have a war. It came really close with Qatar. Then naturally the US would be just looking at a very awkward situation where it's so-called allies fight each other. Not a very good place to be. Already it's "allies" can be found on different sides for example in Libya or Sudan.

Nobody in this thread.

Edit: in any case, as long as Israel refuses to negotiate Hamas' goal will be the total liberation of Palestine yes. But they have already offered to negotiate on the basis of the 1967 boundaries. So really, your point isn't even accurate.

1) What do you say should be done now about the hostages? — tim wood

They all should be released asap just as all the Palestinian non-militants held hostage and tortured in Israeli prisons should be released. And the nearly 2 million Gazan hostages should be released asap. Lastly, the Israeli population, who are hostages of several decades of right wing, colonizer-settler "Greater Israel", anti-peace policies, should be released as well.

2) You added to the video you reference above, "Free Palestine!" What exactly do you mean by that?

Exactly what you apologists fear – the aspirational struggle: Palestine free of Israeli occupation & oppression. No doubt, at least since 1967, opposing a free Palestine consequently opposes a free Israel.

You could always negotiate with a hungry lion by giving it your leg.

Amen, mostly.

Palestine free of Israeli occupation & oppression. — 180 Proof

Are you representing that the Palestinians would accept a peace with Israel? Their rhetoric and actions have been clear that they would not, and I'm afraid Oct. 7 and other events have got some Israelis singing the same tune.

Btw, here is the first of an undergraduate course of lectures on the Bible and incidentally on Middle Eastern history. Interesting stuff. Offered here because at the outset of her introductory remarks the lecturer places the Israelites in Canaan - pretty much modern Israel - 3000+ years ago, not that that is news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo-YL-lv3RY&list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
The lectures themselves being an education for any who care to receive it.

Funny how they never demand a Palestine free of Hamas’s occupation & oppression. Such a thing is never mentioned. Everything with these people is one sided.

:roll: Clearly you are severely allergic – cognitively dissonant due – to the relevant historical and critical information provided most recently by and others.

Funny how they never demand a Palestine free of Hamas’s occupation & oppression. — Moses

Not half as "funny" as the apologists for decades of Israeli settler dispossession, Shin Bet apartheid and IDF collective punishment who incorrigibly fail to recognize/acknowledge that Hamas and others "terrorists" are the logical consequence of (US-backed) Irgun/Likudnik *zion-über-alles* fascism. As long as a man is beaten savagely everyday like a dog, the only moral "demand" is for the beatings to stop in order for 'the dog' to learn how to stop trying to rip out 'the dog-beater's' throat. "Eye for an eye", Moses – lose-lose or win-win: oppressor's (Pharoah's), not the oppressed's (Hebrew exiles'), choice. :brow:

You keep looking at this as if Israel is the victim. They're not. It's both aggressor and oppressor. A coloniser. It would sooner be the other away around, where the leg is land the Palestinians should have owned.

what about freeing the Palestinian people from being hostages of their own governments and their oppressive policies? Destroy all oppression. Release everybody!

Destroy all oppression — Moses

The aggressor-oppressor (apartheid) State of Israel first. :up:

If we’re serious about destroying all oppression we could all just kill ourselves. But in the meantime I say Hamas first - the aggressor and oppressor.

If we’re serious about destroying all oppression we could all just kill ourselves. But in the meantime I say Hamas first - the aggressor and oppressor.

Hamas is like an amoeba, it can’t be destroyed, or removed. This is the legacy of the Israeli oppression of Palestinians.

:100:

to the relevant historical and critical information provided most recently by ↪180 Proof and others. — 180 Proof

Ah, yes, the relevant history. You're not that stupid, 180, what are you doing talking about relevant history? Or if it's relevant history you want, how about the hostages from 7 Oct.? That's about as relevant and current as you can get. Further, these are bona fide hostages. I am unaware of any hostages held by the Israelis. Or can't you tell the difference between the two?

I am unaware of any hostages held by the Israelis. — tim wood

Willful ignorance (my mistake assuming the video, etc I'd offered you upthread would help educate you on this matter) or craven deceit. :shade:

Obviously, you're not serious ...

Willful ignorance ...or craven deceit. — 180 Proof

So you cannot tell the difference between persons ripped out of Israel by Hamas as hostages and persons detained by Israel. Perhaps you're one with those who call the Jan. 6 rioters, those convicted and jailed, "hostages." I suggest you take a quick Google look at the word and remind yourself what it means.

What I am on about is that one group of people is bearing the weight of a war against presumably a fanatical minority of themselves who have so burrowed into the civilian infrastructure for concealment and protection that the civilian population is necessarily subject to the blows of that war, a war directly caused by that minority, and which minority possesses at least a few keys to bringing about an end to that war, which they to date refuse to use. To my way of thinking the Palestinians are victims of many things, chief among those things themselves, their choices, their beliefs. The genius of Hamas is to get the Israelis to be the agents of the death and destruction. And given the provocation, for at least the time while the hostages are still held and until some accountability adjudicated, I do not entirely fault the Israelis.

I am 100% serious in calling the Palestinian governments oppressors and aggressors. Islam is an expansionist political ideology which Hamas takes very seriously. “First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people.” First the Jews, then the West. But maybe you’d be fine with that.

]Netanyahu Calls Student Protests Antisemitic and Says They Must Be Quelled

War criminal and genocide leader calls anyone protesting the murder of thousands of women and children “antisemitic,” and wants to stifle free speech. Good luck.

Love seeing these amazing people out there. Police pushback and media lies will only lead to more of them. History will judge them well.

:yawn:
Here's a video of an interview with Jewish-American (forensic scholar) political activist Norman Finklestein with the title: Memory Of The Holocaust Is Abused By Zionists As A "Weapon"

@RogueAI @BitconnectCarlos

This is the legacy of the Israeli oppression of Palestinians. — Punshhh

:100:

I listened. What about it? - I did notice the piece is edited in places where i would have liked to have heard more; e.g., about 18:00 to 18:30, when we don't hear what the first thing he had to do was. More to the point, why do you not succinctly reprise whatever his argument is?

If I may be permitted a metaphor: much so-called intellectual effort feeds on itself, in the way that art critics might discuss and criticize paintings and more significantly each other and their own criticisms. But what is the concern here is not the paint, but the canvas itself and it's material and structure, which for my metaphor stand for the underlying reality, truth, and facts of the matter, and those as prior to interpretation of them.

I have a challenge for you that of course you're free to disqualify. I think if you consider your own cultural experiences and identity, you may find some points of identity with the Jew/Israeli Palestinian circumstance. (Are you familiar with the Brouwer's fixed point theorem - the idea here being that fixed points of reference between things otherwise different is not in itself an outrageous or unreasonable idea.) And the idea being not to warm to any particular of current events, rather the challenge to dig as deep as possible to find the ground, sub-stratum, ultimate cause of all the strife. Not subsequent causes, as in chains of cause and effect, but the start of the thing.

As a clue to my thinking, it may be that a person will be attracted to notions of freedom; and why not, it's a powerful and attractive idea. But the question of freedom usually arises in substantive form when and where there is a lack of it - fair enough. But what underlies that? Why, or what, accounts for that lack of freedom in the first place? To me this is a foundational question, meaning that anything built on the subject without addressing it is very likely built to fail, as being built on a faulty foundation.

In this, one can see that Oct 7th is an immense distraction, and yet one that cannot be ignored as a distraction. And I ask your view as to what it is a distraction from, and why, for what purpose, and for whose benefit. That is, what monstrous thing is concealed in the shadows beyond this raging bonfire?

a load of text to pretend you think deeply about this issue when your analysis doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. It's ridiculous.

@180 Proof

Here's Douglas Murray interviewing a reformed Hamas militant (Palestinian muslim) who is deeply knowledgeable. It's also age restricted so if you're under 18 do not click the link.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j2mXvZHTuo

a load of text to pretend you think deeply about this issue when your analysis doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. It's ridiculous. — Benkei

Nah. You're ridiculous.

Btw, this game takes little effort to play, offering little in the way of rewards. Why don't you try something substantive instead?

I'm suggesting that the anti-Jew/Israeli anti-Semitism of the Middle-East runs deep, like racism in the US, and consideration of the one, by one who knows it, may aid in understanding the other. Or do you think mere palliatives and superficial nostrums are the right medicine?