All Abrahamic sects are the same superstitious nonsense — 180 Proof

Because they believe in God? Or is it the talking snakes?

it's the unholy "parties of god" on both sides committing atrocities that "explicitly" sabotages any prospective (secular) resolution to Israeli-Palestinian hatreds.

Atrocities come from both secular and religious sources. Hamas is religious, PLO is secular. Likud is a mix. Bibi is secular but obviously zionist. Decades of bus bombings and stabbings will lead to the rise of parties like Likud. Israel is an amazing, beautiful place regardless of whether one is religious or not. Resolution will come when the Palestinians renounce their ownership claim over all of Israel. Until then, constant war.

Because they believe in God? Or is it the talking snakes? — BitconnectCarlos

The latter follows from the former. Like the principle of explosion: any nonsense follows from contradictions. :pray:

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

"Zion" re: Joshua (Jericho) to Netanyahu (Gaza) ...

You just believe in a different sort of God.

Addendum to this discussion of only a month ago
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/894404

You just believe in a different sort of God. — BitconnectCarlos

If that is so, then Deus, sive natura – Spinoza's God¹ (and not "the God of Abraham" or any other Bronze Age tribal / sectarian cult-superstition) – which I contemplate without worshipping-fetishizing (i.e. idolatry) like Albert Einstein et al. As a philosophical naturalist (i.e. Epicurean-Spinozist + absurdist²), I have a speculative, 'irreligious' affinity for pandeism³ which makes me an ecstatic⁴ ... rather than spiritual or religious.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acosmism [1]

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism [2]

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/718054 [3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_(philosophy) [4]

Congress threatens ICC over Israeli arrest warrants — Tzeentch

disgraceful [...] lawless [...]
If unchallenged by the Biden administration, the ICC could create and assume unprecedented power to issue arrest warrants against American political leaders, American diplomats, and American military personnel.
[...] immediately and unequivocally demand that the ICC stand down [...] use every available tool to prevent such an abomination — Johnson

think of whether we stay a signatory [...]
We have to think about talking to some of the countries that have ratified [the treaty] as to whether they want to support the organization. [...]
I know Congress will ensure consequences for such an absurd decision. — Sherman

strong consequences from both Congress and the President — Torres

They don't know the charges (yet), so this ↑ is about that there may be upcoming charges, regardless of what they may be (and the justification thereof)?

concerns about the prosecution of the war [...] it's always a good idea to get the facts before making a judgment — Kildee

Why don't we see what happens, and then we can evaluate based on whatever comes out. — McGovern

Better.

The ICC is an independent body, and it needs to proceed with what they need to do. — Jayapal

it's not a matter for Congress to be telling them what to be doing — Pocan

Something for them to quarrel about.

If that helps you live your best life then more power to you. I don't really mind as long as you follow the the 7 noahide commandments.

pfff... Zionists don't take them seriously and obviously you don't either. Don't murder (Palestinian civilians). Don't steal (land). And unlimited administrative detention for Palestinians with no recourse to courts. That's 3 laws continously broken that you're perfectly fine with.

We must eliminate those who are intent on the murder of innocents. Killing them is not murder.

I don't really mind as long as you follow the the 7 noahide commandments. — BitconnectCarlos

Non serviam – I refuse to "follow" any superstitious "commandments" (re: Plato's Euthyphro, etc) seeing as "following" them did not prevent the Nakba and subsequent Israeli colonizer-settler occupation-oppression of the last several decades. Your zionist "Noahide Commandments", BC, seem as compatible as the nazis were with slaughtering elders women & children and ethnically cleansing, so wtf bother with such tribal "blood and soil" superstitions? :mask:

Derived from the moral reasoning of Rabbi Hillel the Elder (& Kongzi centuries before him), I am committed to

Whatever we know harms humans and nature, I do not voluntarily do to any humans or nature

which for me culminates in aretaic negative consequentialism (i.e. flourishing by actions and/or inactions which effectively prevent or reduce harms and injustices) that, therefore, categorically obligates me to practice solidarity with oppressed communities (e.g. secular Palestinians) struggling to resist their occupiers-oppressors (e.g. Israeli Zionists). Tikkun olam. :fire:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/901665

occupiers-oppressors (e.g. Israeli Zionists) — 180 Proof

What exactly is it that you/your movement want? A return to 1967 borders? A return to the original 1948 borders? Or an end to all Jewish political autonomy in the region because all Jewish political autonomy in Palestine/Canaan/whatever you want to call the region is "OcCuPaTiOn." The latter is the most outspoken position, the most widely adopted by the leaders of the movement. To oppose that is Zionism. The Jewish liberation movement. So how do we stop oppression in a way that guarantees Israel's security? We can have that discussion.

There will very possibly come a day when Arabs once again control Palestine and Jewish political autonomy is lost. I hope if that day comes, you will be sympathetic to Jews burning Arab babies in their cribs, raping & slaughtering Arab women, and slaughtering random innocent Arab men in house to house murders because "resistance by any means necessary" and because Arab hegemony/oppression breeds such behavior. :vomit:

Oppressor vs. Oppressed. Powerless vs. Powerful. Endless war. That's your morality.

How these conversations go:

Them: I oppose Israel because it's an ethnostate.
Me: So you oppose a Palestinian state?
Them: I support a state with a Palestinian majority, but with full rights for a Jewish minority.
Me: Of the two biggest Palestinian factions, though, one promises a real ethnostate, not like Israel with full minority rights, and the other promises an Islamist dictatorship with an expulsion or murder of the Jewish population. So how is this fantasy state of yours going to come into fruition?
Them: I oppose Israel because it's an ethnostate.

So Israel rejecting ceasefire and going to complete its genocide despite international condemnation.

Praying for the IDF in Rafah now. Closing in on the Hamas vermin.

In the ceasefire deal Hamas offered to return hostages dead or alive :lol:

:clap: Another vapid apologist ranting his non sequitur strawmen. That's all you got, lil' meshuggeneh. Pathetic.

Closing in on the Hamas [Gaza] vermin. — Moses

Ah yeah, now isn't that just a return of the fuckin' "nazi" repressed in (some) Ashkenazim? – "Sieg Heil! Zion-über-alles!" Fuck you, Bibi & the IDF. :scream:

You’d be saying the same thing about murderous white supremacists hypocrite. Like you don’t hate the KKK.

1200 murdered and Israel isn’t allowed to hate. One George Floyd dies and buildings go up in flames. Hypocrite.

Hate who exactly? All Palestinian civilians apparently.

Genocide apologists, apart from being morally repugnant, are also really stupid.

You haven't answered what you want from Israel to end the oppression.

Boo hoo can’t believe Israel is going after rapists who murdered over a thousand people and kidnapped children how could they??? :cry: :cry:

Israel is going after rapists — Moses

Yeah, those 15 thousand babies had quite the assault record.

See above re: genocide apologists.

^ straight from the mouth of the Gaza health ministry if they told you 150k babies murdered you’d be parroting that claim. In Hamas we trust :lol:

You haven't answered what you want from Israel to end the oppression. — BitconnectCarlos

Immediate fucking ceasefire! :scream:

Yeah well, since that won't ever happen given the zionfascist status quo, I "propose" a just as far-fetched, three-part, Joint Security Plan:

(1) Israeli citizens need to remove (violently if nexessary) the "Greater Israel Zionist" coalition government asap and jail/execute Netanyahu at el along with (tasking Shin Bet & Mossad to assassinate) all of the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Israeli Zionist extremists & other terrorist combatants (except those murderous fucks who surrender to authorities for judicial processing and internment in UN-monitered, Joint Israel-Saudi, Egyptian, Jordanian administered penal camps in the Negev);

(2) complete cessation of US/EU economic & military aid to Israel immediately until a negotiated withdrawal of the country (removing all Israeli settler communities) back within the pre-1967 borders and the negotiated establishment of a Secular Palestinian State (SPS) recognized as an UN member and guaranteed international economic aid recipient (predominantly from the Saudis & Gulf States); and

(3) simultaneous US-Nato led eradication of Hezbollah in Lebanon & Syria in order to establiah a DMZ along Israel's northern border with significant economic & military support for Jordan that helps secure the West Bank, etc from Iranian-backed terrorist infiltration & incursions asap.

Just my two shekels: if (1) happens, then (2) is possible; if (2) happens, then (3) is absolutely necessary. :fire:

Peace begins with the oppressor State of Israel breaking the intractable cycle of oppression-caused-reciprocal-atrocities that undermines the Jewish state's future existence (which Ariel Sharon, Ehud Barak & Yitzhak Rabin had all acknowledged).

We must eliminate those who are intent on the murder of innocents. Killing them is not murder. — BitconnectCarlos

Bitconnect, I'm an admirer of your thinking on other threads, outside of this (perhaps personal(?) and understandably so) one.

I'm just saying, I don't know if you're feeling ganged up on, and resorting to an F U response, but it doesn't appear to be helping your cause.

Now, I already know anyone of us could come up with arguments against Hamas, their "mission" and their ideology. But why not admit the tragedy of the death of so many innocents (yes, I mean the victims of Hamas, Palestinian civilians) and abhor it, and then justify the actions with strong reasons presumably demonstrating inevitability? Do you not see the violence in that contradictory statement? "the murder of innocents"

Again, I am sure Hamas is wrongful, and malicious. But a statement like that cannot be made with ease. I can't imagine any human scenario where that statement could be expressed functionally. Sure, you and I might think it absurd in this case, but I always reserve the what if, the just what if the other side thinks they're doing the same thing? Is one right? Who gets to say? Are they both right? Is that not a path to mutual destruction, extinction? Isn't the only functional truth that they are both wrong? That is, that the statement is wrong?

Anyway. This is an excruciating moment in human history. It feels like watching your siblings, who thoroughly despise each other, and likely, on some level, given each of their traumas, despise themselves. And they're no longer arguing, not even just shoving, they're literally plucking eyes, and strangling each other.

Should our conversation really be about who's right, while big brothers everywhere cheer them on to over power each other?

Anyway, I absolutely know this might be personal and please know I am sensitive to that, and if I have not been, it is only out of ignorance.

I'll continue to relish our fruitful dialogue in other rooms!

:up: This thread has long outlived its usefulness. You roll around in the mud enough dealing with Hamas-sympathizers, antisemites, etc. -- you're going to get dirty and it can drag you down. Thanks for the reminder.

EDIT: But the more I research the more I realize that Hamas is straight from hell. There was a jubilance to the 10/7 murderers. Unfortunately on 10/7 palestinian civilians and even unrwa partook. Comparisons to Nazis or Amalek are warranted. Not even the Nazis were jubilant. Societies can be sick.

Societies can be sick. — BitconnectCarlos

Yeah yeah, your racism is well documented. But thanks for the reminder.

Don't you have some Jews to bar from campus? Don't forget your armband.

Genocide apologists are not only stupid and unfunny, and fail at satire — but they’re also extremely boring. :yawn:

Humans don't fight over territory and food. They fight over imaginary stories in their minds. — Yuval Noah Harari, Israeli historian

(i.e.) Millennia of slaughtering babies & other innocents in the "Promised Land" ("Holy Land"). Countless human blood sacrifices demanded by the insatiablely jealous "God of Abraham". :eyes:

↪BitconnectCarlos pfff... Zionists don't take them seriously and obviously you don't either. Don't murder (Palestinian civilians). Don't steal (land). And unlimited administrative detention for Palestinians with no recourse to courts. That's 3 [Noahide] laws continously broken that you're perfectly fine with. — Benkei

:100: :fire:

↪Benkei

We must eliminate those who are intent on the murder of innocents. — BitconnectCarlos

Well okay, then why not also "eliminate" the ultra-Zionist leadership of Israel and murderous Israeli colonizer-settlers in the Occupied Territories?

Killing them is not murder.

Yeah, that's just what the Waffen SS and its Einsatsgruppen told themselves too ... gfy, BitCunt. :shade:

There are some vague similarities between Netanyahu and Putin, like their versions of lebensraum and destruction/killing to get it, Putin being heavier on the hitlerjugend style than Netanyahu, ... Either way, expect reactions from other societies.