It's not "the self" that is "immortal" – ageless or unaging – just the substrate upon which mind is instantiated. That substrate would be either organic or synthetic; mind (i.e. "the self") is a dynamic and continuous process, not a perdurant thing, that would supervene and output thoughts, feelings & experiences as long as its substrate (body) operated and did not age or dysfunction. "Perfect preservation of the substrate", I think, is what "immortality" consists in and thereby enables the continuity of self-awareness (mind).... the notion of a perfected preservation of the *self* and, hence, immortality of the self. — javra
what a layperson might term a heightened, or raised, consciousness. Which encompasses far more than mere happiness and longevity of lifespan — javra
rather than, say, producing something akin to drug-induced altered states that deviate from such heightened consciousness — javra
if an individual's happiness alone is the goal — javra
This raised consciousness thereby leads to empathy. But empathy can lead to one's suffering when others suffer. The greater one's general empathy, the greater the number of people whose suffering will impact one. — javra
What do you think about the Hedonic treadmill? — Shawn
Without tangible specifics on the how of doing things it's not realistically applicable. — CountVictorClimacusIII
So what do we do with all these extra people? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Sorry, I just don't believe in the Malthusian Trap. — Shawn
... the notion of a perfected preservation of the *self* and, hence, immortality of the self. — javra
It's not "the self" that is "immortal" – ageless or unaging – just the substrate upon which mind is instantiated. [...] "Perfect preservation of the substrate", I think, is what "immortality" consists in and thereby enables the continuity of self-awareness (mind). — 180 Proof
Maybe more succinctly, immortality of self requires a stagnation of selfhood; whereas, I'm thinking, mortality of self is required for the evolution of selfhood in general. Here, one grants other selves their moment in the sun just as past selves have granted you this opportunity. With each generation learning from the last. — javra
Who ever said it was any one individual's happiness? It's everybody's happiness. Hedonists aren't (all) egotists. — Pfhorrest
Maybe more succinctly, immortality of self requires a stagnation of selfhood; whereas, I'm thinking, mortality of self is required for the evolution of selfhood in general. Here, one grants other selves their moment in the sun just as past selves have granted you this opportunity. With each generation learning from the last. — javra
Everybody? Including the optimal happiness of all murderers? I'm not one to subscribe to this, maybe for obvious reasons. I have a hunch you don't subscribe to it either. — javra
I thought 180 Proof had already addressed that adequately. — Pfhorrest
Punitive "justice" is just injustice. People suffering isn't good, even if those people cause other people to suffer. — Pfhorrest
I'm not denying anything. I'm saying I don't find it relevant (determinative with respect) to the topic. — 180 Proof
In his post about the self being contingent on material substrata? How? — javra
Here's one concrete example: Some humans have been known to lunge with knives at bystanders, such as in dark alleys, so as to gain cash that wasn't theirs. Lack of immediate punitive justice in such situations leads to bystanders being killed. In at least cases such as these, how would the punitive justice be injustice when it saves the lives of bystanders? — javra
I'd argue for the trying to be done with some solid foundations - or trying responsibly / with appropriate due diligence. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Elsewhere would probably be the way to go. If we assume that everything that transhumanism is trying to do could be possible some day, then we can also assume that extraplanetary colonization could also be possible to sustain us. — CountVictorClimacusIII
What do you think will it take for humanity to look at death as a problem that needs to be circumvented with technology or longevity extension type ideas? — Shawn
Is it rational to seek to eliminate death in the absence of any proof that life is better than death?
— Foghorn
But the problem, to quote Wittgenstein, is that "Death is not an event in life". Even if we share a Benatarian pessimism about the human predicament, we should have compassion for aging humans tormented by increasing decrepitude and their own mortality – and the loss of loved ones. Defeating the biology of aging is morally imperative.
In contrast to Darwinian life, transhuman life will seem self-evidently wonderful by its very nature. — David Pearce
Yes. Mastery of our reward circuitry will ensure the darkest depths of transhuman life are richer than today's "peak experiences".I take it that part of the transhumanist vision is to enable everybody to feel the latter way all the time, and make it so that nobody ever has to feel the former way. — Pfhorrest
With that in mind, there's a nuance to note about who benefits from this situation the most, meaning the rich and powerful. It seems to me that money can indeed provide for happiness if not realize it in the extension of one's life-span.
May I ask for your opinion, David Pearce? — Shawn
In practice, almost all intellectual and moral progress depends on false belief, namely the existence of enduring metaphysical egos.As the quote indicates, presentists have no motivation to biologically preserve their own life for the purpose of avoiding eternal oblivion, given that they understand eternal oblivion to be nonsense. — sime
... that committing atrocities or acts of kindness are identically psychologically motivated, no?Mastery of our reward circuitry will ensure... — David Pearce
A qualified version of psychological hedonism may be true. But the commission of atrocities is a function of ignorance. Full-spectrum superintelligences could impartially weigh all possible first-person perspectives and act accordingly.Mastery of our reward circuitry will ensure...
— David Pearce
... that committing atrocities or acts of kindness are identically psychologically motivated, no? — 180 Proof
Circumvented? As in prevented entirely or otherwise postponed for hundreds of years? Peace and civility. Purpose and prosperity. The more you look around the world and at raw human nature and conflict you get kind of a "gazing into the abyss" effect imo. All the corruption, greed, strife, envy, rage, indifference, and violence, compounded by the fact many people will simply scoff at any such scrutiny and say "that's life pal" or "that's just human nature", really makes you hope for something greater. — Outlander
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