I think you can be adjusted but not conform.
I think the quote would be better with conform.

I think you can be adjusted but not conform.
I think the quote would be better with conform. — Mystic

Adjustment is conformity. The desire and the motivation to adjust is part of that conformity.

@skyblack See,this is now quibbling over your rigid definitions.
Adjustment can also mean adapting to circumstances.
DO you want everyone to go mad or maladjust because society has problems?

See,this is now quibbling over your rigid definitions.
Adjustment can also mean adapting to circumstances.
DO you want everyone to go mad or maladjust because society has problems? — Mystic

No quibbling....certainly not with someone i feel is a rising morning star :-) ( i am sincere).

One can adapt to living conditions, to reality, but why does one adapt to psychological disease and dependency, is a question the inquirer can ask of himself.

One has said this before, the disease in society are a reflection of the problems in the human.

@skyblack We have to get a little more nuanced here.
We can still function in an ill society without being dependent or diseased. I think the disease in society is a reflection of problems in humans yes,but not all humans. I don't believe in jungs shadow or original sin or Eastern or western notions of ignorance needing liberation.
Thanks for the compliment. I see you as many degrees higher than the general dross here,hence my engagement with you.

We have to get a little more nuanced here.
We can still function in an ill society without being dependent or diseased. I think the disease in society is a reflection of problems in hand yes,but not all humans. I don't believe in jungs shadow or original sin or western notions of ignorance needing liberation. — Mystic

The question one has to look at, if they are interested, is not the question of "functioning" in society, but the question of individual conformity to a diseased state. The sate of the mind that likes to confirm in order to adapt to a diseased way of living. Right functioning may be clear upon the establishment of health and order, that is, upon correct understanding of the disease.

@skyblack Most folks want to confirm,they don't care about disease they just want comfort.
To folks who are not conformist and who have some cultural baggage one must just steadily rid oneself of intrusive thoughts and actions which are based on the disease of fear.

Most folks want to confirm,they don't care about disease they just want comfort.
To folks who are not conformist and who have some cultural baggage one must just steadily rid oneself of intrusive thoughts and actions which are based on the disease of fear. — Mystic

Therefore, in order to understand the disease of conformity, to an inward and societal sickness, the inquirer has to understand this tendency/nature to seek comfort at the price of what is right/correct/integrous ( which OP has mentioned in prior threads) , and the nature of fear which goads us to confirm. Both extremely complicated subjects aren't they.

How does the inquirer approach such subjects without a subjective lens and with an innocent mind free from bias and prejudice, seems in itself quite a challenge.

Every society humans have ever put into action for more than 5 seconds has been profoundly sick. Only a miserable fool refuses to adjust to the inevitability of things being as they've always been. Said tortured fool will have greater odds of achieving some minor fleeting positive changes than a well-adjusted person, and well-adjusted people may cheer them on from the sidelines -- but degree of change achieved is not a measure of health. The complacent person who accepts things as they are lives a longer and more enjoyable life which is clearly healthier than the martyr of the latest revolution.

Unfortunately, Mystic was banned so you're down a rising star (conformist), skyblack. Sorry to be the bear-er of bad news.

Every society humans have ever put into action for more than 5 seconds has been profoundly sick. Only a miserable fool refuses to adjust to the inevitability of things being as they've always been. Said tortured fool will have greater odds of achieving some minor fleeting positive changes than a well-adjusted person, and well-adjusted people may cheer them on from the sidelines -- but degree of change achieved is not a measure of health. The complacent person who accepts things as they are lives a longer and more enjoyable life which is clearly healthier than the martyr of the latest revolution. — Paul

I quite agree with your labeling people as miserable tortured fools. I would have probably have said the same. I suppose these terms aptly describe those that feel impotent and thus learn to adjust and confirm to the sickness both inside and outside.

Said impotent tortured miserable fools in their deluded well-adjusted status, who take their complacency, their apathy, and their sickness as a badge of honor to defend, and who learn to take a S&M pleasure in killing the voice of reason/martyrs in various ways, whether by obvious or by subtle means, surely can’t be called healthy by the intelligent (by any measure of the word), can they.

That being said, the OP in a post above has drawn a distinction between adjustment in reality, and adjustment to psychological sickness. Which perhaps will be cleaner to a mind less conditioned by violence and more open to reason.

Every society humans have ever put into action for more than 5 seconds has been profoundly sick. Only a miserable fool refuses to adjust to the inevitability of things being as they've always been. Said tortured fool will have greater odds of achieving some minor fleeting positive changes than a well-adjusted person, and well-adjusted people may cheer them on from the sidelines -- but degree of change achieved is not a measure of health. The complacent person who accepts things as they are lives a longer and more enjoyable life which is clearly healthier than the martyr of the latest revolution. — Paul

Isn't life grand?!

That's what granpa fought for in WWII!

I hope you don't think war is about being healthy.

It seems like some of you have decided to try to redefine "healthy" to mean "whatever I think should be done", and just war is the ultimate proof of how wrong that attitude is.

Eh? Sarcasm travels poorly online.

You're the one defining health as a matter of conformity to and complaceny with whatever standard happens to seem to prevail at any given time in any given location.

Go zombies!

I'm defining health as a matter of... health. Living longer, having fewer diseases, being happier, not being in the dungeon getting flogged. The same ways everyone everywhere has defined health forever.

noun
the state of being free from illness or injury.
"he was restored to health"
a person's mental or physical condition.
"a state of physical, mental and social well-being"

If like the original poster you're making the claim that being well-adjusted to society isn't better for your healthy than being maladjusted, then it's up to you to elucidate this strange theory of yours by which getting on the bad side of society is somehow going to make you healthier. Perhaps you could start by showing the statistics of how unhappy people live longer and revolutionaries outlive homemakers.

One thing is certain: your like or dislike of conformists or nonconformists is utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

"It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society".----Anonymous — skyblack

One can adjust without conformity. That is what many terrorist do. And we all know how good they are for society.

One can adjust without conformity. That is what many terrorist do. And we all know how good they are for society. — Sir2u

Aren't you part of that group of terrorists? Look a bit closer. Aren't you part of the sickness you call society? Surely the sick society has it's marks all over you (and people like you), doesn't it? The evidence is In your acts of violence towards others, whether obvious and subtle. If you cannot terrorize someone physically you will try to do it with a gesture, a word, some remark. The society tortures you and you torture the society. In essence that's the game, isn't it.

This is what happens when you adjust to a sick society. You become part of that sickness.You become part of that group of terrorists and the terrorism. You don't have to go too far, the microcosm of this forum strikingly and perhaps pathetically mirrors the world outside.

If like the original poster you're making the claim that being well-adjusted to society isn't better for your healthy than being maladjusted, then it's up to you to elucidate this strange theory of yours by which getting on the bad side of society is somehow going to make you healthier. — Paul

It's not my "theory", duh. Jesus. This is a philosophy forum, we shouldn't have to put up with misrepresentation like that.

I'm defining health as a matter of... health. Living longer, having fewer diseases, being happier, not being in the dungeon getting flogged. — Paul

The point is that there are societies where the above is systemically impossible for some, or even many people, by no fault of their own. No matter how much they conform, they still end up living poor, short, miserable lives. This is what happens in a tyranny, a dictatorship, or a caste society for example.

The idea that if one conforms, one will be safe and well, is infantile, even in a democracy.
Conformity can help, but it is no guarantee.

Secondly, considering your above definition of health: Think what it means to be well-adapted to a society where eating lots of junkfood is the norm, for example. This hardly leads to "living longer, having fewer diseases, being happier". Although it might save one from being flogged in a dungeon ...

Aren't you part of that group of terrorists? — skyblack

No.
Just because I adjust my needs to society does not mean that I am going to fight either for or against it.

As I said, one can and has to adjust to society without being happy with it (conforming).

And there is a difference between adjusting and conforming. When I adjust I can take advantage of the parts of society that are beneficial while avoiding the parts I disagree with.

Carry on.

Carry on. — skyblack

Best comedy films ever made in England.

But in case you are trying to give me permission, I don't need it.

Best comedy films ever made in England.

But in case you are trying to give me permission, I don't need it. — Sir2u

it was my way of politely saying you are dismissed.

I wasn't giving you permission, it was my way of politely saying you are being dismissed. — skyblack

I don't need that either. But it serves as a good example of your conformity to society. :rofl:

I don't need that either. But it serves as a good example of your conformity to society. — Sir2u

Right, i was waiting for that shift from the topic to the person.Says it all.

Right, i was waiting for that shift from the topic to the person.Says it all. — skyblack

Yes you are right, it is irritating when people start to get personal and insulting instead of discussing the topic.
Here is a very good example of someone doing exactly that.

Carry on. — skyblack

Being dismissive is one of the easiest ways out for someone that has their head so far up their butt that they think the light they see is the brilliance of their intellect. The truth is that what they really see is the light shining though their ears into the empty space where their brain should be. :rofl:

Right, i was waiting for that shift from the topic to the person.Says it all.
— skyblack

Yes you are right, it is irritating when people start to get personal and insulting instead of discussing the topic.
Here is a very good example of someone doing exactly that.

Carry on.
— skyblack

Being dismissive is one of the easiest ways out for someone that has their head so far up their butt that they think the light they see is the brilliance of their intellect. The truth is that what they really see is the light shining though their ears into the empty space where their brain should be — Sir2u

When the participant IS in that state, as you so excellently describe above and has demonstrated it, as you have, and also has a history of the being part of a terrorist group engaging in acts of terrorism, in context of what we have already discussed, dismissing them politely is about the best alternative available to one who understands the value of correct usage of energy and time. Now, carry on. I will let you figure what that means this time.

When the participant IS in that state, as you so excellently describe above and has demonstrated it, as you have, and also has a history of the being part of a terrorist group engaging in acts of terrorism, in context of what we have already discussed, dismissing them politely is about the best alternative available to one who understands the value of correct usage of energy and time. Now, carry on. I will let you figure what that means this time. — skyblack

No need to even think about what it means. It was simply. Let me explain it for you.

It means that you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about therefore you have decided to try and blow off anyone that tries to discuss things with you by spouting a load of verbal diarrhea and hoping that they will walk away from the mess and that you will be able to claim victory because no one else will tell you that you are wrong.

Even if no one else tells you that you are wrong does not make you right.