I have definitely had what appeared to be out of body experiences on a number of occasions, most often on the borderline of sleep. I can remember one in which I was flying around the room, and knowing that my body is lying on the bed. — Jack Cummins

How "conscious" would you say you were? I guess that question leads into your next paragraph.

The philosophy question which remains for me is whether such states are really what they appear to be, and supporting the idea of dualism, or whether they are illusory? — Jack Cummins

If the out of body state is "what it appears to be", I don't think this necessitates a hard dualism.

I have experienced many out of body experiences, and that makes it difficult to generalise. I am probably not in the position of thinking purely about how hard my own dualism would be.I have only begun to think about these experiences relation to the issue of dualism since using this site.

I am not entirely clear about the purpose of your thread, whether it is about looking at the experiences themselves or what it means. I think that both are probably important.

I am not entirely clear about the purpose of your thread, whether it is about looking at the experiences themselves or what it means. I think that both are probably important. — Jack Cummins

Both! This thread is in the lounge; it's just about all things OOBE. You say you've had many, so I'm all ears to hear about the details, your interpretations, your philosophical interpretations of them...whatever, if anything, you're comfortable sharing.

Maybe a third time will be the charm ...

@Noble Dust

Does your ontology include "disembodied consciousness"? Cartesian mind-body dualism? supernatural (immaterial / nonphysical) intentional agents e.g. ghosts, angels, etc? — 180 Proof

I'm not sure why you're so curious, but my ontology isn't a closed system; I leave room for the possibility of consciousness not being confined to the physical.

Uh huh. So it's more likely it's my physicalist (narrower) perspective and terminology, rather than my writing style, that confused you.

No, it was your use of text formatting and jumbled sentence structure.

If you say so.

Yes. Many years ago. Castaneda's Art of Dreaming. Extreme clarity of images, in full control - pure will it seemed.

I keep saying this to everyone who responds in the affirmative, but I would love to hear more...but I also recognize how personal these experiences can be, so I don't want to pressure you. Castaneda I'm familiar with, although I've read that he was accused of being some sort of fraud; about what exactly I don't remember.

The simple instructions he gave worked on my first attempt. No drugs. It was an astounding experience and I thought "there are other realities." As time went on I found there were different degrees of the experience, from a very close approximation of normal reality to bizarre escapades far removed. I recall walking across the rug in my bedroom, feeling the fibers underfoot, and tapping a chest of drawers with my fingers. Then walking slowly through a closed wooden door, as if a thick momentary fog.

On that first experience I also thought, "this is how religion began."

It seemed one becomes an embodiment of pure will or intent.

As time went on I found there were different degrees of the experience, from a very close approximation of normal reality to bizarre escapades far removed. — jgill

This is the kind of response that gets me excited; what you say here closely mirrors the experiences of OOBE folks like Robert Monroe and William Buhlman (who I like less as he's a bit new age-y). It's so fascinating that different people in different times, unbeknownst to each other, seem to accidentally discover ways to induce these experiences, and they appear to be the same experiences.

Monroe, for instance, distinguishes between the "second body", which is close to the physical, and generally experiences things in a physical-esque manner, and a "third body" which is capable of having what you describe as "bizarre escapades far removed".

:clap: As Yogi Berra would say "It's déjà vu all over again." IIRC Carlos Castaneda's Journey to Ixtlan lead me to Terrence Mckenna's The Invisible Landscape which in turn lead me to Hans Peter Duerr's Dreamtime. Soon after that, my psychoactive trips ended.

In Duerr's view, shamans learn to evaporate their "ego boundaries", thereby experiencing themselves in a different way; it is this feeling that can be described as shamanic flying. Duerr ties these shamanic practices into the werewolves of early modern Europe, arguing that these werewolves did not physically transform into wolves, but that they embraced their "wolf nature" by crossing over the boundary from "civilisation" to "wilderness". — Wiki

Interesting.

I think that the idea of the shamanic journey is so interesting. The shaman is the archetypal healer, who voyages to the lower and upper world. What I think is so important here is that it gives a wider framework for considering the 'out of body experiences'. It is not just an experience for its own sake, but can be seen as part of the healing of fragmentation of the individual and the shaman is able to bring healing for others as well..

Healing perhaps though from what I understand the problem isn't fragmentation but deep conditioning, and the shaman (and whatever's in their bag of tricks) essentially 'depatterns' that problematic conditioning.

:up:

An update for anyone interested: I had a full out of body experience last night...I think. I woke up in the early hours to the typical vibrations, and relaxed into them. I felt my legs lifting out again, and relaxed more, and lifted completely out, drifting toward the ceiling pretty rapidly. I twisted around and dimly saw my body, and then touched the ceiling, hearing my nails initially scratch the surface and then feeling my hand move through it; the density of the ceiling felt similar to sticking your hand in sand. I then drifted down next to myself...and waved at myself. :lol: Weirdly, I could "physically" feel my hand wave, and watched my physical body do it simultaneously. The image of my body here was very distinct. At this point I drifted back into the physical, and felt vibrations as I re-entered.

What I found interesting is that my state of conscious awareness was what I would describe as fully awake during the vibrational lift-out stage, and during the re-entry stage. In between, during the "out of body" portion, I would describe my awareness as somewhere between normal waking awareness and a dreaming state. It was not a dream, but I was in a hazy condition; maybe inexperience. Interestingly, I immediately fell asleep after "re-entry" and had a dream, so the difference between these apparently three different states are very clear in my memory. Over all, my "out of body" sense of sight was fairly obscure; I'm wondering if this can improve over time.

I'm curious to compare any notes with anyone who's had one of these experiences.

I've never heard of improving on a flashback or hallucination. It'd be quite interesting to know how you'd eliminated either or both highly probable interpretations of what you went through last night before you'd concluded it was an "OBE".

I had a full out of body experience last night...I think. — Noble Dust

What I found interesting is that my state of conscious awareness was what I would describe as fully awake during the vibrational lift-out stage, and during the re-entry stage. In between, during the "out of body" portion, I would describe my awareness as somewhere between normal waking awareness and a dreaming state. — Noble Dust

Another note, if I compare my memory of my "awareness" during the first hour after I woke up this morning (after not getting very good sleep), I would say it's about as hazy as my memory of the "out of body" phase of this experience.