Hmmm maybe you haven't been around many jocks on or off the playing field or nightclub bar staff or construction workers on the job or stripclub patrons ... it's always silly, subliminally dick-measuring, trash talk carried over from adolescence that many, maybe even most, hetero males (in urban America for sure) don't seem to ever fully outgrow. A friend who was a caddy for years told me how rich old dudes would tell more T&A lies out on the golf course when they weren't bitching about their wives or bratty kids.I would honestly be flabbergasted to hear a group of adult men going on about tits and ass. — K Turner
You really find male voices overpowering and intimidating? I am asking because when I eat out in a busy restaurant, for example, what I tend to hear is female voices. Or perhaps men are instinctively more receptive to female voices and vice versa. But I admit that some men can be very loud and even sound or actually become aggressive when they've had too much to drink. — Apollodorus
Incidentally, you mention "male form" and "male beauty". How much of this would you say is physical and how important is it in comparison with other forms of beauty and/or attractiveness? — Apollodorus
Also, you seem to have done quite a bit of thinking on issues of sexuality and you are saying some interesting things.
May I ask if all these are your own ideas or how did you come to hold these views and when? Has philosophy had any influence on any of this or is there no relation?
Exactly. Many men need that ritual as a sublimated (soft-simulated?) "release", many don't or not very often. I tend to find those situations get old too fast and a signal to me that I need to look elsewhere for the only thing better than great music or prolonged silence: companionable dialogue.I wouldn't be offended obviously, it would be ridiculous to the point of hilarious. It's like we're going back to the 3rd grade. — K Turner
I will say, though, that the OP was not discussing sexuality in particular, but allure: the quality of being powerfully and mysteriously attractive or fascinating. As a woman (albeit a decade or two older), I obviously don’t find the female form distinctly ‘mysterious’ as such. My eye is, however, attracted to the potential of the female form: ie. those qualitative aspects in other women’s appearances that are suggestive of my own untapped capacity, such as fitness and strength. — Possibility
I think this is one area where we do ourselves a disservice to mimic the limitations of the ‘male gaze’ and dismiss this attraction to our own gender on the grounds that we’re not sexually aroused by it. You’re telling Tiff that her attraction to women is sexual because it’s based on physical touch and comfort, but that doesn’t ring true for me, and I would say the same thing about men who find comfort in the sports-sanctioned physical touch of other men. Not everything is about sex.
I don’t find a ‘lap-dance’ all that appealing myself, and I would actively discourage an attractive woman who thought she could entice me in this way. However, I don’t think ‘disgusted’ would be a response to the female form as such, but more to her intentions towards me, especially if she blatantly disregards my intentionality. I’d respond the same way towards a man who didn’t bother to gauge my interest, even if he were ‘objectively’ attractive. — Possibility
I have no qualms with this movie as it depicts the intensity of female desire (regardless toward another female - nonetheless, applies to men as well). — Cobra
This is why I don’t buy into stuff like the shows of Madonna and others. I have nothing against them as a person, but to me it looks totally fake and like a form of mass manipulation and control like in some weird cult or sect. — Apollodorus
The claim may be made but that doesn't make it true. I'm one of those ladies who fall into that small group.Wait. Are you claiming categorically that there is not a significant (though maybe small) number hetero females who find other "attractive" females more alluring and beautiful than "attractive" males? :chin: Asking for a friend — 180 Proof
Madge isn't performing for people like you. — K Turner
Now imagine a group of women or gay men come in and start saying "why do men need to be this aggressive?" — K Turner
You really find male voices overpowering and intimidating? I am asking because when I eat out in a busy restaurant, for example, what I tend to hear is female voices. Or perhaps men are instinctively more receptive to female voices and vice versa. — Apollodorus
Are you American? I find that American women in general have much louder voices, speak in a lower tone register with less tonal and dynamic variation than women elsewhere. So that gives them the effect of being dominant, aggressive, intimidating.The agreeableness of women and the lack of interest, desire and intimidation to compete with the robust social dominance of men - even down to the very fact that men have more powerful and louder vocal cords, is largely absent in women — Cobra
I will say, though, that the OP was not discussing sexuality in particular, but allure: the quality of being powerfully and mysteriously attractive or fascinating. — Possibility
Unfortunately, self-interest tends to come first and this happens at individual, national, and international level. — Apollodorus
These studies all suggest that the auditory system and speech perception are different in men and women. — baker
I find that American women in general have much louder voices, speak in a lower tone register with less tonal and dynamic variation than women elsewhere. So that gives them the effect of being dominant, aggressive, intimidating — baker
By my dinosaur standards, they _are_ aggressive, and this isn't mutually exclusive with "being themselves".I don't think I quite agree with that. Louder than other English-speaking women, e.g., English, Irish, maybe. But definitely NOT aggressive, they are just being themselves. — Apollodorus
I find that generally, it's the women who are more aggressive.I would say Japanese and Chinese women can sound aggressive. And, above all, Arabs. But none of them sound as aggressive as the men.
?Being loud doesn't count as "aggressive" in my view. You sometimes get groups of teenage girls that have had a few drinks and are a bit loud, and sometimes women or girls may start a fight with other girls but that's very rare. I just don't think you can extrapolate from this that women in general are "aggressive". — Apollodorus
The original claim was that American women tend to be more aggressive than other women.
Also, where I come from, being loud is generally considered aggressive. — baker
Sure.When I said that personally I tend to hear female voices over male ones I meant this only in the sense that my brain notices or registers them NOT that I find them "aggressive" or in any way "annoying". — Apollodorus
It could mean that. A trajectory is loudness -- verbal aggression -- physical aggression. In fact, many people here already class loudness as verbal aggression.In any event, I put Americans in the same category as Europeans. They may be louder than some Europeans, but I fail to see how this translates as "aggressive".
Being loud does not mean that they are going to start a fight or attack you, does it?
Americans tend to be upset by the very fact that other nations exist at all. That's why they feel justified to invade other countries and teach them to submit to 'murica.Unless you do something to upset them, in which case you can't really complain that they are aggressive toward you ....
Toward you, perhaps, because you're male.I think I understand what you are trying to say. However, personally, I have zero experience of aggressive American women. Loud, compared to some Europeans, yes. But definitely not aggressive. On the contrary, the ones I know are polite, well-mannered, and very friendly. — Apollodorus
As long as you make the first step, right?In fact, as a general rule, I find that if you are courteous, respectful, and friendly to people, they tend to be nice in return.
But Americans are doing it now, when we are supposedly civilized. Most other nations stopped invading other countries long ago.I am not aware of Americans invading more countries than other nations. If I am not mistaken, Slavic people invaded the European territories they occupy at present. The same is true of Germanic peoples. They invaded most of Europe and founded great nations like Germany, England, and France. There were Germanic kingdoms in Italy and Spain, not to speak of Scandinavian countries. And don't forget the Romans.
And women as they age tend to lose the lower frequencies, ie. their hearing for male voices deteriorates.Age specific hearing loss? Well, I think I'll have to wait a long time for that to happen. And when it does happen, I can always get a hear aid, can't I?
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