if Jesus was with the Essenes in opposing the Sadducee leadership in the Temple, this is not an indication that Jesus was opposed to or advocated something contrary to Judaism. — Fooloso4
He did change the world, in the end.
— Olivier5
I think that is an open question. — Fooloso4
Some interpreted the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God as an internal transformation rather than the geo-political transformation envisioned in some messianic views. — Fooloso4
do we have good reason to believe that Jesus was actually a living person and that the Gospels contain anything this Yeshua (if he lived) might have said or done? — Tom Storm
The same question could be asked of Socrates, who could be a figment of Plato's imagination... Either one trusts the source or one doesn't. — Olivier5
We lose nothing if [Socrates] turns out to be 'made up'. With Jesus there's rather more at stake. — Tom Storm
Nothing is "turning out". In both cases there's a body of texts, and there's us. Either you trust (by and large) those sources or you don't. Either you are interested in those texts or you are not. — Olivier5
One model I’m aware of is R M Bucke’s 1901 ‘Cosmic Consciousness’. In it, he says that those designated prophets or sages (he includes both Jesus and Buddha, but with many other examples) have realised a state of being which is as far beyond the normal human state, as the human state is beyond the comprehension of animals — Wayfarer
Does the Tathagata exist after death? Does he not exist after death? Does he both exist and not exist after death? Does he neither exist nor not exist after death?..." "If I thought so, I would say so...I don't say so...I don't say it is not." This is the fourth case. — Wikipedia
Christians before Christ — Wayfarer
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. — Mark Twain
Interested in both topics but utterly failing to see the connection between them. — Wayfarer
seems a speciality of yours. — Wayfarer
That others such as Paul piggy-backed on him only shows how vibrantly the message was resonating. — Olivier5
And this may be one of his deepest intuitions: the solution is perhaps not one big kaboom, with angels blowing celestial trumpets. Maybe it's already here, in every one's own longing for justice and love. — Olivier5
Some interpreted the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God as an internal transformation rather than the geo-political transformation envisioned in some messianic views.
— Fooloso4
This view was strenuously deleted by the early Christian Fathers as a species of heresy. — Valentinus
The work of your namesake being a prime victim. — Fooloso4
The central theme of this belief is that we all contain a divine spark that can be discovered. It is at hand. — Fooloso4
We do not know what his message was in distinction from the messages that emerged in his name and was in some cases suppressed. — Fooloso4
You must know the Jewish story of the long spoons. — Olivier5
In each location, the inhabitants are given access to food, but the utensils are too unwieldy to serve oneself with. In hell, the people cannot cooperate, and consequently starve. In heaven, the diners feed one another across the table and are sated.
Legend and the evangelists added a lot, but I doubt they voluntarily suppressed anything. — Olivier5
too far from the original (monotheist) Jesus IMO. — Olivier5
A summary from Wiki: — Fooloso4
There is the problem of sourgraping, presenting socioeconomic success as less relevant than it is.
— baker
There is, but there is a difference between presenting socioeconomic success as less relevant than it is and first hand experience that it is not all that there is. There is a point at which more is not better, despite how it may appear. — Fooloso4
With Jesus there's rather more at stake.
— Tom Storm
Would you like to expand on this? What more is at stake with Jesus? — Olivier5
On principle, Dharmic religions (notably, Buddhism and Hinduism) are not expansive, evangelical religions, the notion of religious conversion is foreign to them
— baker
Yes, I wonder why that is. However, I've heard of buddhist kings like Ashoka dispatching missionaries to Sri Lanka. — TheMadFool
Are those who are not past that point (or nowhere near it) justified to value wisdom over socioeconomic success? — baker
If Jesus was a real person, and has the power as stated in the Bible, then, if you don't accept him as your lord and savior, you will burn in hell for all eternity with no chance of salvation. — baker
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