Like most anti-vaxxers, you didn't read your own article. But it doesn't matter, because I'm willing to grant it as "true" -- I in fact anticipated this several posts earlier. — Xtrix

This is from the article: “The coroner said: "Lisa died due to complications of an AstraZeneca Covid vaccination."”

In that case, there's death and debilitation associated with literally everything, including walking in a field -- because people have been struck by lighting. So walking in a field involves death and debilitation. — Xtrix

Yeah, sometimes people with dogs get trampled by cows. It’s one reason why you wouldn’t say that people *should* walk their dog through a field of cows, and it’s reasonable for them to avoid doing so.

One case presented out of 5 billion doses is a freak case, yes. 5,000 cases would be freak cases, in that sense. More people die in bathtubs.

But keep trying. — Xtrix

Underlying this characterisation is the assumption that it doesn’t happen often enough to be significant. Underlying that assumption is your principle one that vaccines are unequivocally safe. It’s question begging.

In that case, there's death and debilitation associated with literally everything, including walking in a field -- because people have been struck by lighting. So walking in a field involves death and debilitation.
— Xtrix

Yeah, sometimes people with dogs get trampled by cows. It’s one reason why you wouldn’t say that people *should* walk their dog through a field of cows, and it’s reasonable for them to avoid doing so. — AJJ

In that case, it's "reasonable" to do (or not to do) anything. Which is why your argument is delusional.

It's reasonable not to walk in a field, as there have been deaths by lightning. It's reasonable not to own a house, as they have collapsed. It's reasonable not to get in a tub, as people have slipped and died on them -- far more than from any vaccines, in fact. It's reasonable to ignore anti-vaxxers, given how many people have died of COVID. Etc.

One case presented out of 5 billion doses is a freak case, yes. 5,000 cases would be freak cases, in that sense. More people die in bathtubs.

But keep trying.
— Xtrix

Underlying this characterisation is the assumption that it doesn’t happen often enough to be significant. — AJJ

One case presented out of 5 billion isn't an assumption of insignificance. It's the definition of insignificance. Given that's the only evidence you've presented for "deaths" thus far, what else can be concluded?

Seems to me you're assuming significance where is there none. Which isn't surprising, given you're an anti-vaxxer.

Underlying that assumption is your principle one that vaccines are unequivocally safe. It’s question begging. — AJJ

:lol:

You have no idea what that means, but by all means keep using it. I don't mind if you keep looking like a complete idiot.

For those following this odd discussion: this is not an "assumption," it is based on evidence and data. If data were presented that showed that there were a high percentage of deaths -- even something like 1% -- I would count that as significant. I would count 0.1% death rate from vaccinations as significant. The data do not show this.

It's reasonable not to walk in a field, as there have been deaths by lightning. It's reasonable not to own a house, as they have collapsed. It's reasonable not to get in a tub, as people have slipped and died on them -- far more than from any vaccines, in fact. — Xtrix

If person deems those dangers to be significant then I’d at least say it’s fine for them to avoid them if doing so does them and others no substantial harm.

One case presented out of 5 billion isn't an assumption of insignificance. It's the definition of insignificance. Given that's the only evidence you've presented for "deaths" thus far, what else can be concluded? — Xtrix

Again, your assumption is that it’s the only case, or that the case number, whatever it is, isn’t significant. I consider even just one case significant, but I don’t turn this into the view that people *shouldn’t* get the vaccine. My view is that it’s a choice and to decline it is fine.

If data were presented that showed that there were a high percentage of deaths -- even something like 1% -- I would count that as significant. I would count 0.1% death rate from vaccinations as significant. The data do not show this. — Xtrix

You’ve been purposefully downplaying or dismissing the occurrences I’ve referred to, the examples and the statistics. You do this because you’ve made the assumption that the vaccines are unequivocally safe. This is both your premise and your conclusion. It’s a conformist assumption. It’s question begging.

If person deems those dangers to be significant — AJJ

No— one isn’t entitled to their own facts. 1 in 5 billion isn’t significant and isn’t a reasonable position to deny a vaccine, your “beliefs” aside.

And it does do others harm by denying the vaccine, because the vaccines help us come out of this pandemic— which is demonstrated by the evidence.

Again, your assumption is that it’s the only case, or that the case number, whatever it is, isn’t significant. — AJJ

Again, since you’re the one making the claim that it is significant, the onus is on you to demonstrate it. You’ve cited one example. There may very well be other cases— maybe millions of cases. I’m unaware of that evidence, and I’ve looked. By all means point to studies confirming your claims.

I consider even just one case significant, — AJJ

One in 5 billion is significant to you. Got it.

On those grounds, you really shouldn’t do anything at all, as there are significant risks of death by this standard.

Funny that these are the lengths anti vaxxers, like you, have to go through to justify such an idiotic position. Shame.

You’ve been purposefully downplaying or dismissing the occurrences I’ve referred to, the examples and the statistics. You do this because you’ve made the assumption that the vaccines are unequivocally safe. — AJJ

The examples you cite are rife with problems, but as I’ve stated multiple times— and which you don’t understand— is that I’m willing to grant they’re true for the sake of argument.

Even with that — assuming 1440 deaths, or even ten times that much— it’s statistically insignificant. Sorry if you don’t like math.

Conformist assumptions. You assume mass vaccination of the young and healthy is substantially helpful. You assume the consequences of the vaccines are insignificant. You don’t demonstrate either of these things. You employ these assumptions in question begging arguments.

Conformist assumptions. — AJJ

Nope. Facts- which you deny, as all anti-vaxxers do. Very common.


____
From the CDC:

Over 369 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine have been given in the United States from December 14, 2020, through August 30, 2021.

COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective. COVID-19 vaccines were evaluated in tens of thousands of participants in clinical trials. The vaccines met the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) rigorous scientific standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality needed to support approval or authorization of a vaccine.

Millions of people in the United States have received COVID-19 vaccines since they were authorized for emergency use by FDA. These vaccines have undergone and will continue to undergo the most intensive safety monitoring in U.S. history. This monitoring includes using both established and new safety monitoring systems pdf icon[PDF – 83 KB] to make sure that COVID-19 vaccines are safe.
_____

Those pesky doctors, scientists, and experts. All making such big “assumptions.”

lol

You read this stuff and you conform. No questioning—only frightened, dim-witted conformity.

Says the anti-vaxxer. :lol:

Go look for Big Foot while you’re at it, genius.

As an avid social distancer he’s probably more up your street.

As an avid social distancer he’s probably more up your street. — AJJ

Many have claimed to have sighted him -- so the chances he exists are significant.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe

For anyone serious, who have legitimate questions about safety and efficacy.

Johns Hopkins is arguably the best hospital in the United States.

You read this stuff and you conform. — AJJ

Yes, I read what experts say. You ignore what they say, because you’re an anti-vaxxer and, as demonstrated here, an otherwise complete buffoon. Enjoy.