Knowing all the physical facts about the brain states of people having experience x (e.g., seeing red) won't lead to knowing what experience x is like (e.g., what it's like to see red). — RogueAI
But even if we grant that, is it an argument against some sort of naturalism or physicalism? Is there no difference between the brains of people who have read about swimming and people who have done it and know how to swim? That seems crazy, doesn't it? And only people who have done it know what it's like to swim. Knowing what it's like is a function of memory, isn't it? — Srap Tasmaner
the salient aspect of pain isn't that it involves nerves and brain states x,y,z, it's that pain hurts. It feels bad. — RogueAI
If everything is physical, then a complete physical description of something should be necessary and sufficient to define it. — RogueAI
Why? It doesn't seem to follow at all. Why would it be the case that if everything is physical we can describe it? What is it about being physical which makes something describable? — Isaac
It's saying the world is fundamentally made up of X and nothing else. — Marchesk
if the physical can't describe something, then that something is being left out of the picture — Marchesk
Learning about colours causes changes in the parietal-temporal-occipital region, the hippocampus, the frontal cortex... Seeing colours causes changes in the V4 and VO1 regions. — Isaac
Strongly emergent properties are a problem for physicalism. It means something entirely new comes into existence. — Marchesk
Skepticism always wins. It can't be killed. We just tend to move on from it (or ride past it unmolested as Schopenhauer put it). — frank
Does anyone think they can describe "what it's like to see a red patch" or "what it's like to be in pain" in non-physical terms? — Srap Tasmaner
That sounds to me like you're saying it's painful to be in pain. Were you hoping to say something more than that? — Srap Tasmaner
The mental aspect of pain (that it hurts) — RogueAI
That's just a way of saying that seeing red and feeling pain are subjective — Marchesk
Well you're demanding a physical description right? How does it go when you avail yourself of the non-physical? Should be easy as pie now, shouldn't it? — Srap Tasmaner
You said that before. Do you mean something besides "pain is painful"? — Srap Tasmaner
I'll say no. Will you answer my question now? — InPitzotl
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