It seems to me that pessimistic, existential problems (such as death, suffering, the strangle of time, boredom, anxiety, etc) is something that has to be solved by the person in their own way that suits them, and that manner cannot be criticized. — darthbarracuda
The pessimist is arguing that everyone is the same boat here living lives where they would have been better off not existing. But not everyone agrees with that. If a person finds their life worth living, then the pessimistic position simply doesn't apply to them, whether they're stoical about X,Y,Z or whatever. The point is that those problems aren't enough to make life not worth it to that individual. — Marchesk
Then what? — Marchesk
I can't see how you can be right for someone else here — Marchesk
But seriously, what's more likely: that the Stoic is wrong in their assessment of their own life (and is somehow actually suffering profoundly from these problems), or you are either misunderstanding their position or blowing these problems out of proportion? — darthbarracuda
Then nothing. Who cares if you agree or not? That means nothing. We are doing philosophy; we care about what is true, not who agrees with it. — The Great Whatever
Why not just opine that my life is great, and make it so? Why does anyone have problems at all? — The Great Whatever
So you think there is an objective, universal truth to be had here? That's very odd for someone who values the Cyrenaics. — Marchesk
I have said that whether one finds life worth living or not is a feeling. — Marchesk
Or it could be more complicated than that, where it sometimes feels worth it, but sometimes not. In that case, I don't know what the truth is, if there is such a thing in this case. — Marchesk
I am saying that opinions are impotent. If they were omnipotent, as you say, then I could simply have the opinion that my life was perfect, an that would make it so. Yet life has real problems. Does your opinion about whether you are suffering control whether you are Clearly not. And clearly your position that it does is bizarre. — The Great Whatever
Fortunately, I never made such an argument. Yeah, life has real problems. We suffer at times. Okay. The question is, does that make life not worth living? The pessimist says yes, but other people disagree. So what makes the pessimist right. Maybe I disagree that problems and suffering necessarily make life not worth living. Who are you to say otherwise for me? — Marchesk
And what kind of feeling is that? Is it sweet or sour? — The Great Whatever
Why are you under the impression that whether you disagree with something has anything to do with whether it's true? Notice that the following is an invalid inference: — The Great Whatever
Because you're arguing about the subjective state of other people. You're claiming that life can't be worth living to them, even though they disagree with you. — Marchesk
Feeling good, interested, motivated, like life has a purpose, looking forward to things, enjoying other people, etc. It could include joy, flow, intense interest, or just feeling like things are going well.
Of course they don't always go well, so then it's a question of do they go wrong enough to spoil the good feeling about life? Does it become hopeless? Burdensome? Depressing? Then it stops feeling like it's worth it. — Marchesk
Shouldn't it worry you that precisely where the issues matter most, your ability to think about them is the most facile? The solution is to invent a magical realm within your head where your opinions control reality, and everything you say or think is beyond criticism? — The Great Whatever
I maintain that there is no feeling of 'life being worth living.' That's something you can say, but not feel. — The Great Whatever
Stoicism has never solved any of these problems [death, suffering, the strangle of time, boredom, anxiety, etc.] for anyone. — The Great Whatever
Anyone espousing its virtues in this very thread can reflect on that honestly and see for themselves. 'Yes, but--' no, no buts, just be honest. — The Great Whatever
It's highly unlikely (and rather preposterous to claim) that all these people, myself included, are deluded in that respect, and are merely experiencing illusion. — Sapientia
You'd have to refute strong evidence to the contrary in order to refute this point, namely people's own experience. — Sapientia
But I don't criticize people who are Stoics, because for them, it might work just fine. — darthbarracuda
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