It's amazing how child-like some people are. They don't think too deeply. — frank
Sound. And is this the way it's commonly read and thought about, in your experience? — Srap Tasmaner
In essence I'm not even judging Christians at this point, I'm judging us, as a secular society for holding such a religion in any esteem at all. — Isaac
IF you like. It does appear to be the link between Akhenaten, Zoroaster and modern monotheism. — Banno
Zoroaster carried out a “reform” of Iranian polytheism, — frank
My understanding is that Zoroaster was a monotheist; that his religion died with him but was revved centuries later by a group of priests who improved its "saleability" to the common folk by allowing them to retain their own gods as demigods.
The Gathas praise a single god. — Banno
If there were then Christianity is a polytheistic religion, too, Satan being the creation of the Lord. — Banno
Um, yeah, if you worship chocolate, I guess. — Baden
Well, yeah. How much more obvious can you make it that you need help? — Srap Tasmaner
My favorite but of wisdom about parenting:
Kids need your love most when they deserve it least. — Erma Bombeck — Srap Tasmaner
one does not think of permanent tooth loss as a cruel and disproportionate divine punishment for not brushing one's teeth. — unenlightened
that's obviously not even close. — Srap Tasmaner
The problem of hell is how to reconcile our ideas of it with the perfect goodness of God. Way out of my league here, but maybe one could imagine the jealous God of the Old Testament as a different sort of thing altogether, a god that can kick the ass of every other god, our guy, not necessarily the principle of goodness. (That local badass-god was long gone by the time the book was written, transmuted into something universal.) — Srap Tasmaner
I haven't been trying to give Christians any more deference than I would anyone else whose beliefs are quite foreign to me: — Srap Tasmaner
someone can claim to believe whatever they like, but that claim is only accurate when it summarises their actions. — fdrake
if the analysis was reframed to someone who really did believe that sinners ought to burn in hell forever, what would their conduct look like for that belief? Does it need to look like anything more than repeating the doctrines? — fdrake
I'm looking for existential meaning when I read the book. Stop pointing out the trees. I'm learning about the forest. — Hanover
I haven't been trying to give Christians any more deference than I would anyone else whose beliefs are quite foreign to me:
— Srap Tasmaner
I wouldn't for a minute think you'd do so deliberately, but I think it's the result nonetheless. — Isaac
Hence our problem (well mine anyway). I can't see a way in which a priest, considering a little 'extra-curricular choir practice' with the boys would actually think "I'll be tortured in hell for eternity if I do this, but at least I'll get my rocks off for a five minuets - whatever, I'll do it". No-one's thinking that way. Which means either a) they don't really truly believe the punishment they claim they do, or b) they really do think it's all about doing the rites properly and not about sin at all (even worse), or c) they're super psyched for choirboys and are prepared to face an eternity of torment for the pleasure. Of the three, I think the former is the more likely. The idea of an eternity of torment for any transgression is just as implausible to them as it is to us (parsimony again, if I can explain their behaviour with beliefs we could share, rather than incommensurable ones, I'll do so). — Isaac
Hence our problem (well mine anyway). I can't see a way in which a priest, considering a little 'extra-curricular choir practice' with the boys would actually think "I'll be tortured in hell for eternity if I do this, but at least I'll get my rocks off for a five minuets - whatever, I'll do it". No-one's thinking that way. Which means either a) they don't really truly believe the punishment they claim they do, or b) they really do think it's all about doing the rites properly and not about sin at all (even worse), or c) they're super psyched for choirboys and are prepared to face an eternity of torment for the pleasure. Of the three, I think the former is the more likely. The idea of an eternity of torment for any transgression is just as implausible to them as it is to us (parsimony again, if I can explain their behaviour with beliefs we could share, rather than incommensurable ones, I'll do so). — Isaac
factual beliefs are practical setting independent, cognitively govern other attitudes, and are evidentially vulnerable. By way of contrast, religious credences have perceived normative orientation, are susceptible to free elaboration, and are vulnerable to special authority. This theory provides a framework for future research in the epistemology and psychology of religious credence
The dissonance would only be exposed when the priest is held accountable by others.What role do you think cognitive dissonance plays in all this? — fdrake
Taking that back to the OP, the upshot is that religious belief is categorically distinct from factual belief — Banno
By the time someone does something that could be problematic, it's often already too late. Such as discovering only a few years into your marriage that your spouse is a thief, or serial killer. — baker
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