But that is all that it is. — god must be atheist

It's enough for me!

Thanks, good debate.

Interesting discussion. We tend to shift almost effortlessly between physical, actual and literal descriptions of reality, and we use language, mathematics and physics to help us navigate. If we understood that we were shifting between dimensional structures of reality, then we might be more careful with how we used these terms.

I recognise that use of the term ’physical’ - in relation to physics - often includes 4D and even 5D universal structures. But when we’re talking philosophy rather than purely physics, and not relying on calculations, then I think it helps to distinguish between dimensional structures for ease of understanding. If you can suggest a more appropriate term to distinguish 3D structures then I’m open to it.

A physical (3D) universe is temporally finite, and any attempt we make to describe it would hypothesise a beginning and an end. An actual (4D) universe, however, appears (in mathematics and physics) to have emerged from (literally) nothing at t=0, even though we recognise its infinite existence. And a literal (5D) universe is ultimately both infinite and nothing, relative to one’s perception of value/potential.

(1) Something from literally nothing certainly seems far-fetched if by ‘literally’ we mean either physically or actually nothing. But literally nothing is a lack of awareness, and all it takes is attention and/or effort directed towards this ‘nothing’ for it to be literally something (value/potential) about an apparent nothing.

(2) An infinite past seems far-fetched if by ‘infinite’ we mean physically infinite. But an actually infinite past is mathematically plausible - zero and infinite being qualitative limitations - even if no evidence would ever exist.

So, while the poll is skewed towards (1) by the term ‘literal’, the unusually high proportion of (2) suggests a misunderstanding of distinctions between physical, actual and literal realities.

Best solution: beginnings in time that follow each other up:

$[0-10^{-43}]_{CT}\rightarrow \infty_{TT}$

$\rightarrow$

$[0-10^{-43}]_{CT}\rightarrow \infty_{TT}$

$\rightarrow$

$[0-10^{-43}]_{CT}\rightarrow \infty_{TT}$

The symbolic representation of a serial, non-cyclic, worlds universe.