I fear not 'opposing view points', although mass murderers and their apologists are indeed creepy. — Olivier5
The backlash is people getting into severe cognitive dissonance which disrupts the war horny trance like state they were in previously, when they encounter the fact the "neo-Nazi" problem isn't some fringe skinheads in some seedy bar, but a whole institution.
Which, please pay attention to the "black sun" which doesn't even have any apologist "it's just a rune" or "ancient Sanskrit symbol" whatever explanation, but literally created by the SS for the SS. — boethius
And also discover, at least the US and Canada (... maybe not other NATO members like Germany, who are the experts on neo-Nazi's after all and arbitrate whether they exist or not in today's media landscape) exposed to be breaking their own laws, which was military aid was contingent on irregular forces not doing any fighting or getting any weapons or ammunition ... which journalists could just go debunk in like, a single day's investigation? — boethius
And discover ... that when people talk about this problem going back to 2014 ... there's times and BBC reportings on this very thing: — boethius
January First, is one of the most important days in their callender. It marks the birth of Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Ukrainian partisan forces during the second world war.
The rally was organized by the far right Svoboda Party. Protests marched amidst a river of torches, with signs saying "Ukraine above all else".
But for many in Ukraine and abroad, Bandera's legacy is controversial. His group, the organization of Ukrainian Nationalists sided with Nazi German forces [but fortunately we have modern Germany to tell us there's no connection!] before breaking with them later in the war. Western Historians also say that his followers carried out massacres of Polish and Jewish civilians.
[... interview with a guy explaining the importance of Stepan Bandera's birthday party ]
Ukraine is a deeply divided country, however, and many in its East and South consider the party to be extremist. Many observers say rallies like today's torch light march only add to this division [really?!?! you don't say...]. — boethius
Or discover this one which interviews the FBI talking about these terrorists training with Azov ... but ... wait, "the war on terror" doesn't extend to white terrorists training "oversees".
And has the quote (recorded on video) from one of the recruiters:
""
We're Aryans, and we will rise again
"""
But ... the president is Jewish and is allied with these forces, who don't even hate Jews all that much! So obviously you can have Nazi's if their friendly Nazi's (to your side). — boethius
This one's just adorable.
""" — boethius
Yes, it's an important part of it, of course, when carefully chosen. — Olivier5
US is one player, but when it comes to Russia and Ukraine, it's a minor reason. — ssu
Let's do that. Because Putin might be viewed really then in different light as before. — ssu
feel free to provide the things I've omitted to make the "true picture" according to you. — boethius
I tend to feel free, generally, and do not need your authorization for it. — Olivier5
For instance, you've omitted the presence of a nazi-like ideology in Putin -- he's clearly a nazi himself -- and the fact that the Wagner group funded by Putin is headed by nazis. — Olivier5
Where did you mention the fact that Putin is himself a Nazi? — Olivier5
I don't see the evidence for it ... — boethius
The extreme nationalism, the invention of a grand national destiny, the banalisation of violence and love of brutality verging on sadism, a hatred for representative democracy, suspicion towards Jews, extensive use of propaganda, all these are quite typical. — Olivier5
The extreme nationalism, the invention of a grand national destiny, the banalisation of violence and love of brutality verging on sadism, a hatred for representative democracy, suspicion towards Jews, extensive use of propaganda, all these are quite typical. — Olivier5
It's happening now in Ukraine. Torture. Rape. Murder. That's what Russians do. Violence is the only language they will understand. — Olivier5
I haven't said anything about thresholds. Russians can be as nazi as they want to; no problem for me, as long as they don't invade their neighbours. — Olivier5
I'm just pointing at what I perceive as an important difference between other "Ukraine antagonists" here and you: they are amateurs, while you're a professional, IMO. — Olivier5
Lula also wants to break free from US dollar hegemony, which is of course the exact rational response to the American abuse of power:
https://multipolarista.com/2022/05/04/brazil-lula-latin-america-currency-us-dollar/
Which means of course, that there will be a coup attempt backed by the US relatively soon after he wins power, if he does. — Streetlight
this follows China's recent meeting to look into how to detach from the USD as well: — Streetlight
I will never stop laughing at Christoffer's insistence that everything is 'really nuanced and subtle', which apparently means: NATO and the US are entirely blameless and the only agent which must be punished is Russia and literally anything else means you are an agent of Putin. — Streetlight
you are arguing has nothing to do with what I wrote since it's about what you are interested in. — Christoffer
I think the main problem is that it's impossible for some to criticize Nato AND condemn Russia. — Christoffer
if you think I haven't been critical of NATO, you haven't been reading the thread. — Baden
if we are discussing this from a moral perspective it is entirely necessary to determine guilt — Christoffer
"It's all Putin's fault" is "nuanced" — Isaac
What does this mean? One ought to give concessions when force is threatened. — Metaphysician Undercover
I don't think that NATO now has any desires of "out of the area" operations in Asia or Africa. — ssu
I think there's two major reason why the US has such a dominant position in the World — ssu
That's the problem. It considers something and acts as it retake it's Empire and have a sphere of influence, even if countries aren't willing to go with it. (Authoritarian Belarus didn't have that trouble) — ssu
Whether life in that sphere is better or worse than in America's is, again, completely irrelevant to the argument. — Isaac
Is it???
I think it's quite relevant. My country is in a position that it has to decide which sphere to take. — ssu
Please stick to the thread. Where the West will go is another matter.I didn't mean this war, which is really not that important in the bigger picture, I mean the fascist direction of the US and Europe and it's decline and probably even higher rates of wealth transfers to our own oligarchs. — Benkei
Like other British "aristocrats" at the time, his father was conveniently married to the daughter of Wall Street financier Leonard Jerome. — Apollodorus
You say that the relationship between NATO and America is sometimes fraught, but the argument is not that NATO fawns over every word America says, merely that America has a lot of influence in NATO, so this seems irrelevant too. — Isaac
We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonality. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not compromised. We are interested and associated but not absorbed.
So how many husbands did the girl have exactly, and did they all get some nookie or was it mainly a polyandrousness of convenience. — unenlightened
I didn't mean this war, which is really not that important in the bigger picture, I mean the fascist direction of the US and Europe and it's decline and probably even higher rates of wealth transfers to our own oligarchs. — Benkei
Look, the thing is that Russia would have done something similar like this even without the expansion of NATO. Or do you genuinely think that Russia would be peaceful towards Ukraine and other state in it's near abroad, if there wouldn't be a NATO? Do you genuinely think that if Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, Sweden and Finland would be joining NATO? Of course not! Just think for a while who is the active part in joining NATO and for what reasons here.The argument is that America ought to have known that it's sabre-rattling might provoke Russia into something like this. — Isaac
You wouldn't get it it's too sophisticated for you. — Streetlight
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