How can the universe be timeless? The fact that you can remember things proves that time exists.

Motion without time. You're on a roll! — jgill

That's exactly what time does without motion. It has motion, of course. Time always involves motion. But there are different kinds of motion. The symmetrical motion of which you can't say (not even if you know everything about it) if it goes forward or backward in time, precedes the unidirectional asymmetrical irreversible motion involved in the thermo"dynamic" time. Something like that. It's all figùred out pretty smartass....

The beginning (only) makes sense temporally. The universe (only) makes sense temporally. Remove time and the question of a start is meaningless; unfortunately or not, the universe becomes unintelligible. Make your choice: either you can use Occam's broom and sweep time under the rug OR give up trying to comprehend our oh so beautiful universe.

But it does exist for us because we created the concept of "time" but probably, the time itself doesn't exist in the universe. We are just walking through it

Doesn't it have to exist to walk through it?

The beginning is just a symmetrical passage of time. It goes forwards and backwards. Then circumstances, the ending of a previous big bang, caused it to take of in one direction. And that's why time has a direction. And when our universe has expanded away to infinity, that triggers a new big bang behind us. Maybe we'll resurface there. Over and over. Pain upon pain upon pain. What a promise... Even suicide won't help...

Yes, but only in our consciousness. Not in the universe's one. Because the universe itself is timeless, space less and limitless

But our consciousness is part of the universe.

But our consciousness is part of the universe. — EugeneW

How can you prove that?
For me, those are clearly separated of each other

To put it in a way that may seem paradoxical or contradictory - existence does not exist. — Fooloso4

Yes. Just as spacetime is (located) neither where nor when, (i.e. (has) neither 'inside-outside' nor 'before-after').

How can you prove it's not? The universe is not just some fixed 4d spacetime state of matter through which our consciousness travels. I consider it attached to matter, inside it, traveling and pushing and pulling along.

Just as spacetime is (located) neither where nor when, (i.e. neither (has) inside-outside nor before-after). — 180 Proof

How do you know that? It can be situated in a higher dimensional infinite space into which our universe is expanding.

Because consciousness is something related to human knowledge. For example, dogs and cats are not aware about their own existence. Nevertheless, they are part of the "universe", aren't they? We all are part of this universe but we are the responsible of giving it a "significance"
The universe is just there, "existing" and then we are here "thinking" and philosophizing

I chose "other" for the reason to say that any poking at the nature of the Universe that populates the same space as we do, and any speculative description stands to fail. (But not necessarily.)

There are beliefs people hold on to, and I am no exception. I know the space expanse and time are infinite. And I know I exist. Beyond that, everything else is negotiable.

Theories abound. The more science uncovers of reality, the more incomprehensible things become on the intuitive level. I think the best thing is not to make any rash decisions; and definitely not to engage in bitter arguments over these things.

I don't see how that implies anything different or corrects what I've said. 'Spatial' and 'temporal' predicates presuppose spacetime and therefore are not applicable to spacetime itself – what I "know" is that applying "spatial" and "temporal" predicates to spacetime itself is question-begging nonsense.

:up: We are proximate beings for whom reality is proximate and therefore for whom "ultimate reality" is an ever-approachable yet unattainable encompassing horizon. Our best, most fundamental science is only a finger pointing at the CMB by which we interpretatively orient ourselves (civilization) in the boundless void.

Our 4d finite closed spacetime could be located in a higher dimensional spacetime. Isn't it located then?

For example, dogs and cats are not aware about their own existence. — javi2541997

My dog lays on the couch licking clean her precious part. She's very aware of herself. Thomas Malthus, eugenics, are alive and kicking...

Higher dimensional Z is constituted by lower dimensional Y, X ... A; the latter are not separable, discrete entities with respect to the former. 0-d points, 1-d lines, & 2-d Circles are not "located within" a 3-d sphere; they are constitutents of a sphere (which are abstracted mathematically.) In other words, 5-d spacetime is an extension (i.e. projection) of 4-d spacetime just as a 3-d sphere is an extension (i.e. projection) of a 2-d circle.

The 2d surface of a sphere is located on its boundary. Likewise our universe can be located somewhere in a higher dimensional space. Of course matter has to be attached to our 3 space dimensions. It can expand in that higher dimensional space. Dark energy and all that. DE is just higher dimensional curvature!

I wish our beautiful dogs would aware about themselves. But no, this is only a human complex issue. This is why we tend to develop theories and philosophy. We are more complex than animals.
While we are concerned about what the future holds or what could happen this afternoon, the universe is there, not caring

No, man, a surface of a sphere is the sphere's boundary. :roll:

That's what I mean. The boundary of the sphere is part of the sphere. Just like any surface inside it. So our universe could be a volume inside a higher dimensional space. So located inside that higher dimensional space. Expansion of space is proof.

wish our beautiful dogs would aware about themselves. — javi2541997

I pity your dogs if they're not self-aware. People nowadays are too much self-aware. Every creature is self aware.

We are more complex than animals — javi2541997

We are animals who are free to create their own coat, communication means, and material reality.

Expansion of space is proof. — EugeneW

Proof of what?

That our 3d space is located on a higher dimensional space. If that 3d space propagates through that higher dimensional space, it seems the galaxies are receding from each other. If that space is negatively curved, even accelerated, if matter induced positive curvature drops below a threshold.

OK, if you think so, then why do you think we cannot communicate with animals? Because our language are more complex than theirs. They just act with primary actions. We tend to be more complicated. Reasoning, thinking, wondering... Or even hating

We know two facts: (1) the observable 4-d universe (i.e. hubble volume) is expanding and that (2) the 4-d universe is larger than the hubble volume. There are no factual grounds to assume that the hubble volume is "expanding into" anything else other than the unobservable 4-d universe that excompasses the hubble volume.

OK, if you think so, then why do you think we cannot communicate with animals? — javi2541997

We can communicate with animals. We're a kind of animal ourselves.

There are no grounds to assume that the hubble volume is expanding into anything other than the unobservable 4-d universe that excompasses the hubble volume — 180 Proof

Except that it's expanding. The extra space that is created while expanding is just part of the higher dimensional space of which we are a sub. That's the explanation for dark energy.