Is the notion of "one, true doctrine", worthy of persecuting the heretic, a contribution from Christianity? — Banno
It took Christianity to foster the view that not only is there one true God and one true doctrine but that everyone in the world must believe in that God and that doctrine, on pain of persecution and death. — Ciceronianus
You can see how totalitarian systems were influenced by Christianity. Stalin studied to be a priest... go figure. — Tom Storm
Since the topic is not Plato, — Fooloso4
Plato, like Socrates, was a zetetic skeptic. — Fooloso4
Oh, yes. Fascism as well.
Stalin, it seems, was very intelligent and well educated for his time and place. He was also a poet, or he wrote poetry in any case. What would Plato, that Original Totalitarian (OT) but scolder of poets, have to say about that? Perhaps Stalin was the philosopher-king Plato longed for all those years ago. Or perhaps Hitler, the artist.
Certainty is the death of thought, and tolerance, and justice, and mercy, and..... — Ciceronianus
I don't think it's believed by anyone that Plato was a stenographer — Ciceronianus
I understand, though, that after he humiliated himself by trying to make a philosopher-king of Dion — Ciceronianus
But Plato was an advocate of certain political and philosophical positions, not merely engaged in an academic enterprise. — Ciceronianus
It was not that Plato tried to make Dion a philosopher-king but that with the urging and help of Dion to first make the tyrant Dionysius and later his son the king Dionysius II more philosophical. Even if Plato had been more successful in improving their character, this is a far cry from making a king a philosopher. — Fooloso4
But I think Plato was being an advocate — Ciceronianus
He may have understood that the terrible state he envisioned wasn't likely to arise, but he envisioned it nonetheless, and not merely as a kind of stalking horse. — Ciceronianus
The quest for certainty is poisonous, and Plato valued certainty and perfection. — Ciceronianus
Come now. I've been a lawyer for a long time. I recognize a cross-examination of a very friendly witness; I've done more than a few. In the case of Plato and his sock-puppet Socrates (I don't think it's believed by anyone that Plato was a stenographer, faithfully recording questions asked of the real Socrates and answers given by him), Plato isn't even examining such a witness; he's asking questions he's contrived and answering them as he pleases. He has points to make and uses dialogue as a rhetorical device to make them. — Ciceronianus
But Plato was an advocate of certain political and philosophical positions, not merely engaged in an academic enterprise. — Ciceronianus
Nothing should be simply accepted as Plato's opinion or conclusion on a matter but rather everything should be subject to question and challenge. — Fooloso4
Or do we suppose that as with the gospels, that the idea of "one true Platonic doctrine" is itself fraught? — Banno
The idea of there being one true belief, and the concomitant persecution of heretics, seems to be something for which we can thank Christianity. — Banno
Presumably, Islam ("{submission") borrowed the idea in spreading acceptance of its teachings. — Banno
That's an interesting interpretation, but I think it's an example of anachronism. — Ciceronianus
For, as Plato liked and constantly affected the well-known method of his master Socrates, namely, that of dissimulating his knowledge or his opinions, it is not easy to discover clearly what he himself thought on various matters, any more than it is to discover what were the real opinions of Socrates.
– Augustine, City of God, 248
some have considered Plato a dogmatist, others a doubter. . . . From Plato arose
ten different sects, they say. And indeed, in my opinion, never was a teaching
wavering and noncommittal if his is not.
– Michel de Montaigne, Complete Essays, 377 (2.12)
It seems to me that Plato is a profoundly conservative figure — Ciceronianus
It has been said that each generation has its own Plato. — Fooloso4
Its own Jesus, too, I believe. — Ciceronianus
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