With that said, is it ethical for technological automation top be stunted, in order to preserve jobs (or a healthy job marketplace)? — Bret Bernhoft
then the tech should be brought in. — universeness
then the new tech should be slowly phased in — universeness
Is it ethical for technological automation to be stunted, in order to preserve jobs? — Bret Bernhoft
By what agency? Who is in charge of deciding and carrying out these policies? — Vera Mont
More goods are produced, faster. More resources are used up faster. more waste is produced and released into the air, water and land faster. It literally eats the planet. Meanwhile, the people who have no jobs have no income. So who's buying all that product? Does it go straight from the factory into the landfill, like the packaging it comes in? People have to clean up the waste. They have to be paid for that, so they can afford the goods the machines produce. That's usually done from public coffers, not private ones, so the people that are hired to clean up the waste are also the ones paying the taxes that pay their own salaries. Where is the surplus value that buys government services? — Vera Mont
With that said, is it ethical for technological automation top be stunted, in order to preserve jobs (or a healthy job marketplace)? — Bret Bernhoft
Marc Andreessen can be quoted as saying, "...software is eating the world...". Another way of stating this is to say that automation is downsizing jobs across the planet. This is obviously a problem for a lot of people, especially those who become and remain unemployed because of software, Artificial Intelligence and automation more generally.
With that said, is it ethical for technological automation top be stunted, in order to preserve jobs (or a healthy job marketplace)?
This is, in my humble opinion, one of the more important dialogues that our modern society needs to be having. In some ways, we already are having this dialogue; not just here, but throughout our cultures. Technology is advancing, and people are beginning to push back. This is a tough one.
Is it ethical for technological automation to be stunted, in order to preserve jobs? — Bret Bernhoft
Is it ethical for technological automation to be stunted, in order to preserve jobs?
— Bret Bernhoft
It's ethical, but probably impossible or at least infeasible. Science will be science. Technology will be technology. The solution may be something like universal basic income.
On the other hand, the unemployment rate is low and demographers say there won't be enough workers in the future as birthrates decline. — T Clark
Democratic agency. The consent of the majority of all of the stakeholders involved or the consent of the majority of their democratically elected representatives under a very robust set of checks and balances. — universeness
You identify that we cannot have production techniques which cause dangerous environmental/ecological impact. — universeness
I would rather such tech was not brought in until it could be brought in without any such impact. — universeness
In what proportion? For every 1000 jobs made obsolete, how many are created? What happens to the 999 people and their children?Available jobs don't go down due to technology, what happens is that some jobs are replaced with technology, however new kinds of jobs also pop out. — SpaceDweller
But does it have to be employment in the old sense of working for a boss who takes half or more of the value of your work as profit and does whatever he wants with the product? Might 'work' not be re-imagined so that independent people spend part of their time pursuing their creative endeavours, part of their time in co-operative efforts that benefit the whole community and its environment, part of it in games, social activities and entertainment, and part in solitary contemplation?On the other hand, employment is extremely important to ordering our lives and I am not advocating leaving people unemployed! — Athena
We need new ideas for a new reality and it is very exciting to think about the civilization we could have, verses the human suffering and cruelty of our past. — Athena
Utopia! — Vera Mont
In a capitalist world, you cannot have any other kind. Nor have we had any other kind since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. — Vera Mont
How, where, when and how fast new technology is used is controlled entirely by the owners of the means of production - who also control the terms and conditions of employment. They can be regulated by government and mitigated by collective bargaining - unless they also own the government, which, in capitalist societies, they mostly do. — Vera Mont
Might 'work' not be re-imagined so that independent people spend part of their time pursuing their creative endeavours, part of their time in co-operative efforts that benefit the whole community and its environment, part of it in games, social activities and entertainment, and part in solitary contemplation? — Vera Mont
for that we need statistics.In what proportion? For every 1000 jobs made obsolete, how many are created? What happens to the 999 people and their children? — Vera Mont
So, you agree, we need to change that and reject the capitalist world? — universeness
A democratic socialist/humanist administration which implements a resource-based economy. — universeness
YES!!! and a UBI would support this! — universeness
Here's a start:for that we need statistics. — SpaceDweller
Worldwide, a billion people could lose their jobs over the next ten years due to AI...
45 million Americans could lose their jobs to AI automation...
AI will create 58 million jobs, and by 2030...
Companies deploying automation and AI say the technology allows them to create new jobs. However, the number of new jobs is often minuscule compared with the number of jobs lost.
House Republicans passed these deep education cuts today despite clear opposition by tens of thousands of residents over the past few months who spoke out in support of our schools at town hall meetings and rallies across the state. In a recent survey, 53 percent of residents said education funding should be the last place lawmakers cut, according to Michigan State University’s Institute for Public Policy and Social Research.
It's true. Neither is people seeing positive things and not supporting their claims.People seeing negative things and ignoring positive things is nothing new. — SpaceDweller
A while back, if someone asked me the same question in the OP, I would have said that automation will carry us all to the sunrise and a happy ending.First, what's a job marketplace but people selling their time and strength and skill to other people? How does one assess its state of health?
And then: What else happens when automation eliminates jobs? More goods are produced, faster. More resources are used up faster. more waste is produced and released into the air, water and land faster. It literally eats the planet. Meanwhile, the people who have no jobs have no income. So who's buying all that product? Does it go straight from the factory into the landfill, like the packaging it comes in? People have to clean up the waste. — Vera Mont
We would be a bunch of followers of the "cool", with the name of the billionaire attached to its logo, and no longer able to understand what it means to be connected to the earth. — L'éléphant
Sounds utopian to me — Vera Mont
But does it have to be employment in the old sense of working for a boss who takes half or more of the value of your work as profit and does whatever he wants with the product? Might 'work' not be re-imagined so that independent people spend part of their time pursuing their creative endeavours, part of their time in co-operative efforts that benefit the whole community and its environment, part of it in games, social activities and entertainment, and part in solitary contemplation? — Vera Mont
↪Bret Bernhoft The problem isn't software. Software and machinery have no agency. They are tools. Whether the tools are deployed for collective benefit, or very individual benefit makes the difference. In the present world, collective benefit seems to be more accidental than intended. Mostly enterprise is directed toward corporate profit.
An axiom of Marxism is "labor creates all wealth". If substituting software and machinery for labor also creates wealth, we could -- if we so wished -- distribute the wealth created by machines among the laborers who lost their jobs.
Labor is an essential part of us; in a myriad ways, the work we do defines us -- positively as well as negatively. I have performed tedious detail work that I would have given to a machine in a flash, had one been nearby. On the other hand, creative work I have performed (not "art") was immensely fulfilling.
In a phrase: People over profit. — Bitter Crank
Fantastic, hopeful, encouraging words that our next generation so badly need to hear as they can make it happen. — universeness
I believe capitalism is best for some things but not Laizefair capitalism built on the autocratic model. We can retain capitalism and replace the autocratic model of industry with the democratic model. — Athena
The focus of this education is good citizenship and lifelong learning. Its goal is well-rounded individual growth. — Athena
Christians have as many self-delusions as Americans - and are about as accurate in the use of words.Now Christians think they created democracy! — Athena
Stop thinking in the exact way the nefarious few want and need you to think. — universeness
The question could have been couched in more general terms. I would say the question is, Do some technologies have negative impacts on society at large? The answer to this question is yes. In which case those technologies need to be regulated. And yes the case you put is a good example. — Pantagruel
I have, some time ago. I do not use the term pejoratively; I wear it with proper humility: I'm a utopian pastoral socialist by conviction, though I cannot live up to the ideal. I'm also on the brink of extinction. If I were younger and less tough, some jillionaires would make a fetish of serving my flesh in their exclusive club restaurants. — Vera Mont
None at all, among the world population of 0.35-.40B. And how many of those jobs are available to the 6.5B of today's world? I'm not sure how many of the factory workers in Bangladesh can relocate to the head office in New York and take over management of communications. If if two of two or three of the others get a chance to learn web design before their families starve.Jobs can always be created. Is the job "telecommunications manager" or "website designer" available to people of the 13th century? — Benj96
The wall one hits is always the same one: proportions. The reason automation benefits owners is that they have to spend less on wages. It's the only reason they do it: to make more profit, not to make better jobs.The Ready-Made Garments (RMG) industry is the main source of manufacturing employment in the country. However, according to government's a2i project and International Labour Organisation (ILO) around 60 per cent (5.38 million) of garment workers in Bangladesh will become unemployed by 2030 and be replaced by robots due to automation in the RMG sector.]The Ready-Made Garments (RMG) industry[/url] is the main source of manufacturing employment in the country. However, according to government's a2i project and International Labour Organisation (ILO) around 60 per cent (5.38 million) of garment workers in Bangladesh will become unemployed by 2030 and be replaced by robots due to automation in the RMG sector.
So long as humans exist, human problems will be adressed by humans (not automated). — Benj96
It basically means I reject the charge of thinking the way the exploiting class wants me to and that I don't consider 'utopian' a bad word.This has too much personal depth in it for me to accurately unpackage. — universeness
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