Likewise. — Vera Mont
United States focuses on military research and development
US military spending amounted to $801 billion in 2021, a drop of 1.4 per cent from 2020. The US military burden decreased slightly from 3.7 per cent of GDP in 2020 to 3.5 per cent in 2021.
US funding for military research and development (R&D) rose by 24 per cent between 2012 and 2021, while arms procurement funding fell by 6.4 per cent over the same period. In 2021 spending on both decreased. However, the drop in R&D spending (–1.2 per cent) was smaller than that in arms procurement spending (–5.4 per cent).
‘The increase in R&D spending over the decade 2012–21 suggests that the United States is focusing more on next-generation technologies,’ said Alexandra Marksteiner, Researcher with SIPRI’s Military Expenditure and Arms Production Programme. ‘The US Government has repeatedly stressed the need to preserve the US military’s technological edge over strategic competitors.’ — STOCKHOLM INTERNATIONAL PEACE RESEARCH INSTITUTE
I am thinking the world wars, fundamentally changed the US attitude about war and this change is expressed in the 1958 National Defense Education Act. — Athena
At the ends of WWII, hoovering up German military eggheads plus access to all the British innovations didn't hurt their technological odds, either.In 1882, the U.S. Navy consisted of many outdated ship designs. Over the next decade, Congress approved building multiple modern steel-hulled armored cruisers and battleships, and by around the start of the 20th century had moved from twelfth place in 1870 to fifth place in terms of numbers of ships.
Does the technology not get used against civilians though? A drone dropping a bomb on a city may not be a human pilot, but the people the bomb is dropped on are still civilians all the same.
If the drone drops explosives on a purely technological and automated post then that is better in that people were not involved. But sadly tech operations and people (engineers/programmers/installers) are not inseparable. The tech doesn't arise out of thin air, so human victims are always a potential. — Benj96
I say it wasn't a fundamental change but a stage. — Vera Mont
Are you saying the 1958 National Defense Education Act was not a fundamental change? — Athena
Where? When? How long? For which children?Education in the US was modeled after Athens's education for well-rounded individual growth. — Athena
Need we mention the vast differences in church-sponsored education, in racially segregated education, in income levels?Apprenticeships began in America in the 1600's and was an early form of education. Since coming to the New World, the Puritans were needing skilled workers. These apprenticeships were developed to teach young boys a trade that they would continue into adulthood.
Forms of child labor, including indentured servitude and child slavery, have existed throughout American history. As industrialization moved workers from farms and home workshops into urban areas and factory work, children were often preferred, because factory owners viewed them as more manageable, cheaper, and less likely to strike.
The National Child Labor Committee’s work to end child labor was combined with efforts to provide free, compulsory education for all children, and culminated in the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, which set federal standards for child labor.
Are you saying the 1958 National Defense Education Act was not a fundamental change?
— Athena
Yes, I am. It's not the 'after' picture I disagree with, but the 'before'.
Education in the US was modeled after Athens's education for well-rounded individual growth.
— Athena
Where? When? How long? For which children?
Apprenticeships began in America in the 1600's and was an early form of education. Since coming to the New World, the Puritans were needing skilled workers. These apprenticeships were developed to teach young boys a trade that they would continue into adulthood.
Need we mention the vast differences in church-sponsored education, in racially segregated education, in income levels? I think we do need to mention child labour:
Forms of child labor, including indentured servitude and child slavery, have existed throughout American history. As industrialization moved workers from farms and home workshops into urban areas and factory work, children were often preferred, because factory owners viewed them as more manageable, cheaper, and less likely to strike.
The National Child Labor Committee’s work to end child labor was combined with efforts to provide free, compulsory education for all children, and culminated in the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, which set federal standards for child labor.
This makes the 1958 reform just another step in 20-year process. — Vera Mont
If you are really interested in the history of education you will love reading Paul Monroe, Ph.D.'s book "A Text Book on the History of Education published in 1910 or James Mulhern's book "A History of Education" copyright in 1946 and 1959. — Athena
Well I think it's a wonderful thing that mothers can now participate as true bread winners for the family, it must be incredibly empowering, almost on a par with the husband if not in some cases exceedingly so depending on their respective professions. But someone has to take care of the childers.
Its a fine balance indeed. I would personally be happy for a wife to succeed in her career while I raise the children. And I think that dynamic is increasing. A long awaited one. — Benj96
I prefer something a little more up-to-date. It's fine that both the Greeks and Americans taught their upper-class boys patriotism, citizenship and Hellenistic and Christian values respectively. Sometimes, in Athens and New England... All I'm saying is that the pink rear-view mirror does not show the whole landscape in its true colours. As for militarism, there were boys of 12 in the Civil War and 14-year-olds enlisted in WWI. That's one side-effect of patriotic fervour I consider unfortunate. Maybe I have a few issues with your characterization of all public education since 1958, but there is no point going into that here.
Suffice it to say, no slant on education could ever have been evenly applied to all states, and whatever way the curriculum was tweaked, it would not have altered the course of technological development. — Vera Mont
Whoo that was insulting! "true bread winners" :rage: Quick let me put on my philosopher's hat and see if I can deal with this like a reasonable person. — Athena
She likely made all the clothing, all the soaps for laundry and bathing, she of course washed those clothes, hung them on a line, and ironed them. She likely chopped her own wood for the cooking fire and if she was well informed she regulated the heat of her oven by using different woods. She planted and tended to the garden, harvested the food, and preserved it. Then she put the food on the table and people did not have the health concerns we have with processed foods. But speaking of health concerns, a well-informed woman knew the healing plants in her area and she took care of everyone, often without the help of a doctor. Everyone meaning not only her family and extended family but the sick and elderly people in the community as well. I considered my domestic skills were my contribution to the breadwinning and I enjoyed winning ribbons at the local fair :grin: and sitting on important decision-making committees. — Athena
Throughout history, women held things together when men went to war, and some of them were just as good on the battlefield. Today, I think it is clearly women who are advancing civilization and I think it was the grandmas who got us on the track of civilization.
Money is a part of life, but not the only thing of value. — Athena
Oh I'm sorry Athena! :( I didn't intend it as an insult, honestly. Perhaps I need to reconsider how I explain myself.
I meant bread winner in the purely capitalist capacity which doesn't consider bread winning to involve raising a family (which ofc it ought to). It only uses sums (of money) as the "bread" for which I spoke in this case.
As in generating income for the family unit. As we know it's very difficult to stay at home and raise children while also having a full time job. Time is limited and we cannot do everything at once sadly. We must delegate responsibility for a family. — Benj96
Benj96 — Benj96
You appear to have a very closed mind on this subject and I am afraid arguing with you will only make matters worse. — Athena
His family apparently had the moderate wealth required to launch Socrates’ career as a hoplite (foot soldier). As an infantryman, Socrates showed great physical endurance and courage, rescuing the future Athenian leader Alcibiades during the siege of Potidaea in 432 B.C.
He grew up during the golden age of Pericles’ Athens, served with distinction as a soldier, but became best known as a questioner of everything and everyone.
Socrates became the lone opponent of an illegal proposal to try a group of Athens’ top generals for failing to recover their dead from a battle against Sparta (the generals were executed once Socrates’ assembly service ended). Three years later, when a tyrannical Athenian government ordered Socrates to participate in the arrest and execution of Leon of Salamis, he refused—an act of civil disobedience that Martin Luther King Jr. would cite in his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.”
The tyrants were forced from power before they could punish Socrates, but in 399 he was indicted for failing to honor the Athenian gods and for corrupting the young. Although some historians suggest that there may have been political machinations behind the trial, he was condemned on the basis of his thought and teaching.
You're absolutely correct. I agree. I was referring to how modern society pits the bread against the home. Which is a terrible shame as bread is made at home too. Whoever holds down the Fort enables others to go beyond it to fetch additional resources knowing the home is not going to fall into disarray without them. Again i do apologise if it came across as sexist it was not what I meant so I'm doing my best to clarify the context on which I meant the description — Benj96
Some of them could have been married off at age 14 to an older man who wanted someone to do his laundry and cook for him, and back in the day rape and abuse of a wife were sanctioned by law. — Athena
am struggling here, I do not know how to philosophically express the injustice of patriarchy and the value of matriarchy. — Athena
And thank you for throwing me into this quandary by leaving me the argument against the ideal. — Athena
The tyrants were forced from power before they could punish Socrates, but in 399 he was indicted for failing to honor the Athenian gods and for corrupting the young. Although some historians suggest that there may have been political machinations behind the trial, he was condemned on the basis of his thought and teaching.
Oh I disagree. I think you're doing a very good job of explaining your qualms to the forum contributors. Philosophy is for everyone, it's a discussion, the minute we think it is a speciality, elite subject or something that requires some certificate or qualification then true organic philosophy does on that table.
And thank you for throwing me into this quandary by leaving me the argument against the ideal.
— Athena
"An" ideal to be sure. Nobody knows exactly what ought to be the true ideal to pursue. Hence the existence of such forums no? To explore eachothers thoughts, experiences and personal input into the great argument so that we may gather the facts, beliefs and interactions neccesary to hopefully see the wood from the trees.
Yes and certainty is a very difficult thing to capture. Just when one things they have ultimate certainty someone throws a wrench in the cogs and we are left to consider the exceptions to such a case. I hope thanksgiving goes well for you and your family. Have a great celebration :) — Benj96
I have a different perspective, and use - as you have seen - different source material.
Matters won't get worse from argument; they won't get better from refusal to engage; odds are, they won't change at all. I'm open to any of those eventualities. — Vera Mont
Socrates' father was a sculptor and Socrates followed his father's profession. — Athena
Whatever, I have totally enjoyed looking for more information and coming to new conclusions. — Athena
This thread is about how technology changes our lives, and it was political technology that was changing the lives of Athenians. — Athena
The Romans spread an empire that fell. — Athena
See the bias? The Greeks also had an empire - a big one - that fell. And the Romans also left behind a sizeable cultural legacy. Plus some amazing roads. Why cherry-pick? They were both admirable and abominable.The Greeks spread a culture that has endured. The Romans spread an empire that fell.
Good. The fabled Athenians, Pericles' vaunted Athens, engaged in war, international trade, slavery, patriarchy, money-lending, Saturday night pub brawls, political infighting and hypocrisy with as much gusto as every other nation-state on the face of the Earth. So did the fabled young American Republic. When you idealize a shining moment as if it were a sustained condition, you fail to see the grubby century in which it was a moment of importance. — Vera Mont
I say this unfortunate turn is also the result of education for a technological society with unknown values, and intensionally ending the transmission of our culture to our children through our education system. — Athena
This is a conflict between Christians and secular people and a battle for a national future between those who have faith in humans and those who do not. — Athena
The Greeks also had an empire - a big one - that fell. And the Romans also left behind a sizeable cultural legacy. Plus some amazing roads. Why cherry-pick? They were both admirable and abominable. — Vera Mont
The Iroquois (/ˈɪrəkwɔɪ/ or /ˈɪrəkwɑː/), officially the Haudenosaunee (/ˌhoʊdinoʊˈʃoʊniː/[3][4] meaning "people of the longhouse"), are an Iroquoian-speaking confederacy of First Nations peoples in northeast North America/Turtle Island. They were known during the colonial years to the French as the Iroquois League, and later as the Iroquois Confederacy. The English called them the Five Nations, comprising the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca (listed geographically from east to west). After 1722, the Iroquoian-speaking Tuscarora people from the southeast were accepted into the confederacy, which became known as the Six Nations. — Wikipedia
No, it's a result of all the history that went before, of the condition of the world today and of the general craziness of our race. Education has a little part in what happens in the big world; it's not pivotal. — Vera Mont
Homer and the stories of the gods were essential reading like the Bible is essential to Christians.In all the Greek city-states, except for Sparta, the purpose of education was to produce good citizens. Children were trained in music, art, literature, science, math, and politics. — mrdonn
With that said, is it ethical for technological automation top be stunted, in order to preserve jobs (or a healthy job marketplace)? — Bret Bernhoft
After you check out this link we can discuss why the Greek city-states were not an empire equal to the Roman empire. — Athena
Ever since the civil war, the federal government has become more and more powerful, diminishing the power of sovereign states. — Athena
But I think the glory of Rome is not exactly what the United States set out to manifest. — Athena
Throughout history, nothing has been more powerful than education. — Athena
"If we reflect upon the various ideals of education that are prevalent in the different countries, we see that what they all aim at is to organize capacities for conduct." — Athena
In Rome, Christians destroyed the pagan temples that were places of learning. That threw the West into the Dark Age, — Athena
Speaking for myself, machines & humans can be symbiotically integrated (cyborgs) for, well, mutual benefit. — Agent Smith
You choose to limit it to the city states, and exclude Alexander? — Vera Mont
Throughout history, nothing has been more powerful than education.
— Athena
Except religion, nationalism, ambition, greed, paranoia and pride. The chiefest among these is greed, most especially greed for territory - more land! their land! and all the black and gold stuff stuff under it! It's all for us. — Vera Mont
Just so. And where do these ideals of education originate? — Vera Mont
No, that got the christians thrown into Roman prisons. Much later, Constantine imposed Christianity - or some Romanized form thereof - onto Europe. That still didn't bring on the dark age. The dissolution of the Roman empire did. — Vera Mont
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