Sacred vows, like the ones at a wedding or citizenship ceremony, are very subjective indeed. And of course they're open to revision, and breakage and cheating and dissolution. — Vera Mont
Science offers an unbias search for truth imo. Religion offers comfort to help to sate primal human fear. — universeness
When you are really scared, do you ask your religious beliefs to help you? — universeness
There are no religious scriptural references to events from the Proterozoic up until way past the time of the first Homenids. God is a very recent invention. — universeness
Yeah but are you really suggesting that there is never any price to pay if you break a 'sacred vow?' — universeness
There is power behind such labels as 'sacred vow.' Would you not agree? — universeness
but that hardly explains why I would hold religious views when my world is not under collapse. — Hanover
And there is no literature indicating that people loved one another during those periods — Hanover
And there is no literature indicating that people loved one another during those periods — Hanover
I think cave paintings are their best attempt at memorialising their lives, along with our interpretations of information that the fossil evidence provides. Why do you think god created the dinosaurs or the many many creatures that existed before homo sapiens?Or maybe primitive peoples didn't use writing to preserve the historical record. — Hanover
I personally don't use my religion to answer questions about how the world physically works. I've candidly not ever turned to my religious leaders to figure out how to start repair my car, build a house, to cure me of an illness, or of any other scientific inquiry. — Hanover
Isn't it interesting that Alexander the Great's conquests ended at India? HydaspesRiver marked the limit of his conquests. He of course had died at that period and could not continue its conqueting "career", and I'm far from an historian, but I always believed that he was personally conquered by the great Indian civilization he was faced with.“The abject failure of Christianity to break into India, ... — Art48
I think it does, under the wise suggestion of 'be prepared!'
It's your primal fear of the 'alpha male.' Your world is not under collapse only if you comply with what you perceive sustains it and part of that IS your faith that the 'alpha,' has your best interests at heart. — universeness
Why do you thin god created the dinosaurs of the many many creatures that existed before homo sapiens? — universeness
Yes. A psychological one, primarily. — Vera Mont
You’re still stuck in the Kantian-Popperian tradition of science as objective falsification., knowledge opposing itself to power and facts opposing values.
— Joshs
Not even close. — Vera Mont
They said they were prompted to do so by their faith; I was prompted to do likewise by my convictions. What's the difference? Good people behave well; bad people behave badly, whatever they profess. — Vera Mont
The Eastern civilization (as we call it today) was too strong to conquer. — Alkis Piskas
The Indus Valley Civilization dates to c. 7000 BCE and grew steadily throughout the lower Gangetic Valley region southwards and northwards to Malwa. .
and for another, they are large, populous lands.the Chinese 'Cradle of Civilization' is the Yellow River Valley which gave rise to villages sometime around 5000 BCE.
All I can tell you is that you're wrong as it applies to me. — Hanover
Religious vows are much more powerful than you suggest imo. — universeness
Second guess: You’re still stuck in in the Marxist-structuralist tradition of scientific realism. Better?
Give me a hint. — Joshs
It doesn't fail. It doesn't want to converge on a coherent picture picture of the physical universe. — Vera Mont
I appreciate that but I reject it, as you have not convinced me that your faith is not fear based. — universeness
It fails to converge on a coherent picture of the spiritual universe. — Art48
Yeah, but this is where the conversation unfortunately gets stupid, with you positing a baseless theory and then awaiting disproof of it.
You're not asking for a justification for faith. You're asking for me to disprove your false assumption that I have a need to cure my anxiety that you don't, and then I'm supposed to take that seriously, and then I'm to convince you that your random speculation is false. — Hanover
But sure, I might resort to reliance upon religious views to sustain me should my world begin to collapse — Hanover
There are pragmatic bases for faith, and I have brought them up in prior posts. You can take a look at William James' "A Will to Believe" if you'd like. There is something there worthy of philosophical debate there, unlike here. — Hanover
That just reads like sour grapes on your part. I know you cannot provide me with 'proof.' I only require more convincing/compelling claims than those you have attempted so far. My 'assumption,' is supported by your own words: — universeness
I would rather read your viewpoints rather than those of 'William James.' — universeness
What you'd rather do is drone on about some theory you arrived at while sitting in your recliner petting your cat and not be burdened by the extensive discussion that preceded your thinking about it. — Hanover
If we can't get beyond the question of whether you have randomly hit the nail on the head when you declared religiosity only arises as a byproduct of fear, it seems we're years away from advancing anywhere close to the current state of the debate to where something interesting might be revealed. — Hanover
It fails to converge on a coherent picture of the spiritual universe. — Art48
Why would "it" even want to? Religion is not a single entity. It is legion. Why would you expect religions all to have the same world-view when political ideologies don't? The organized religious bodies are rivals, competing for hungry souls, each offering some version of what one man, or a committee, thinks the other people need. — Vera Mont
"Objective realities" to true believers (who do not require evidence other than their "faith"), no doubt. — 180 Proof
I must have missed the lines in my bible "In the beginning was the unknowable" or "The unknowable alone is Holy", etc. — 180 Proof
I cannot imagine that I am the first person who has introduced you to the idea that all theism is fear based. It's an ancient posit. — universeness
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.