There is no Why (which does not beg this Why question further); and as for the How, theoretical symmetry-breaking (i.e. vacuum fluctuations, etc) suffices. Also, insofar as 'there is nothing' to stop not-nothing – "something" – from coming-to-be, continuing-to-be or ceasing-to-be, necessarily non-necessary not-nothing happens eventually. And since there is only one state of nothing-ness relative to the infinitely many states of not-nothing-ness, the probability of the former relative to the latter is vanishing close to zero (which, IMO, is the only state-of-affairs so infinitely improbable that it paradoxically necessitates an "Absolute Being" to sustain "Absolute Nonbeing" :scream:).So why or how is there something? — punos
↪Gnomon You can post answers to these several questions either in reply to me directly or in reply to Agent Smith or @universeness and that will be the end of this antagonism between ua, no more rejoiners or criticisms from me. Give other members who are skeptical of your "personal philosophical worldview" potential reasons with your "staightforward" answers to reconsider the stuff you're selling. Clarifying your contributions to TPF, Gnomon, need not be blocked by our impasse. — 180 Proof
Some posters on this forum will reject your notion of "non-physical", partly because they associate that label with "spiritual", and partly because their Materialism/Physicalism worldview lumps all the things you mentioned under the heading of Physics. That's also why some of the pioneers of Quantum Theory were labeled as "mystics" when they borrowed some holistic Oriental terminology to help understand the non-reductive & counter-intuitive & non-classical weirdness of the sub-atomic realm. So, be aware that "non-physical" may be interpreted as meaning "meta-physical", which to some is about spiritual gods & ghosts, instead of about immaterial ideas & concepts : not Reality, but Ideality. It's about theoretical Philosophy, not empirical Science.Hi Gnomon, my ontology centers around non-physical things such as time, space, certain forms of energy, logic, number, and information. Some of my philosophy resembles yours, and i'm curious to know what your thoughts are on where information comes from? How is it created at the most fundamental level? or what allows it to be possible (a sub-structure perhaps)? — punos
i'm curious to know what your thoughts are on where information comes from? How is it created at the most fundamental level? or what allows it to be possible (a sub-structure perhaps)? — punos
OK, that’s just assigning a completely fictional long-term goal. I agree with that, but was trying to say that they don’t address long term goals in this life.Oh, I completely disagree! Many theist preach, ... that this life, is of very limited importance — universeness
The mommy will need to deal with that attitude then. No dealing with it unless it’s a mommy.Climate change would then be god's will.
I seem to see only suggestions of slowing the destruction, not in any way undoing any of it. It buys time, but actually makes the crash worse.There are millions of organised folks trying to address the long term issues and they are having significant affect, globally, I don't know why you don't give them the credit they are due.
An activist on the right side. She calls for action, but I cannot actually find any suggested action that doesn’t just fall under the category of slowing the advance.You have heard of folks like Greta Thunberg, yes? Why have you heard of her?
If you’re dead, you cannot be revived. So their hope is that the definition of ‘dead’ changes between getting frozen and getting thawed. That definition is always in flux, so it’s a solid bet. No, I don’t think it would be torture either way. You’d certainly not be a conscious popsicle for decades.I am probably sensing a 'misinterpretation' incorrectly here but just to be sure, you are not under the impression that they cryogenically freeze you just BEFORE you die, if you sign up for that service, do you? You have been declared medically brain dead before you are frozen so of course 'freezing isn't torture,' it would be, if you were still alive when someone was doing that to you.
That’s the life in a box. Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to do it here, kind of like Logan’s run? Environment goes to hell, but at least not Mars-hell. But I actually cannot think of something practical that could be engineered to live on Mars except some incredibly static microbes or something.I assume we will start with some dome style construction with tech that can best emulate/simulate Earth's conditions but I accept that, initially, it will be a very rough and dangerous existence. — universeness
You don’t want some kind of authority to keep each of the planets in the federation from stepping out of the agreements?I don't think much of your 'mommy' comparator.
Plenty true of most individuals I know. It’s the larger groups that can’t do it. The larger the entity, the less mature their relationship with other such entities.Many folks have done and still do, dedicate their lives to try to improve the lives of everyone else, surely you are willing to admit they exist and support them in everyway you are able to.
Yes, that one. Capitalism has a nice motivator for that, but I have to admit that socialism also can do it, as evidence by the work ethic of more social countries. I suspect much of the problem is identification of a non-cooperative attitude with your peer group. For example, resistance to the Covid vaccines has been assiciated with a conservative viewpoint. Getting a shot is seen as a vote for the wrong party, so they don’t. I lost a sister-in-law to that mentaility. I’m such a proponent of free speech, but I obviously see a downside to it.es, general tenets such as 'from each according to their ability’
That there are. They might return in numbers, but with less fancy large buildings.I think there will come a more enlightened time in the future when there are not many theists left. If that happens, then theistic buildings will need to be repurposed. There are more and more empty churches nowadays. — universeness
I don’t see it much, but there’s a reason that many sorts of surveillance is restricted or just plain illegal. There is very much potential of misuse if you already have the data for supposedly normal purposes.Big brother is a nefarious, evil force how much are you concerned that such data is being misused?
Agree except for the logic. Whether my life was better not lived or not depends heavily on the gauge by which the benefit of it is measured.Make your mark before you’re gone. Make something that can last. That’s as good a purpose as I can think of. — noAxioms
I agree but I would add that your mark must be benevolent or else your life would have been better not lived at all, imo.
Maybe. Pretty sure there is gender selection going on in places, and perhaps some gene therapy to help with known genetic issues like breast cancer, but maybe not going so far as to just change an ordinary person into an enhanced one, better in some positive way, not just more free of blatant defects.We're doing it anyway, oui monsieur? — Agent Smith
True. "Cold" only has meaning relative to Hot, so it exists meta-physically as a relationship concept in the mind. Yet, "Hot" is also a non-thing, with only a relative existence, as measured in artificial degrees. Enformy is not a thing, it's a causal process like Evolution, except with a positive meaning, relative to inquiring humans. Unlike "Hot" you can't sense Enformy physically, you can only infer it Rationally. Both concepts, Enformy & Evolution, exist meta-physically like Zero*1 : the imaginary concept of Nothingness.Here's food for thought: Cold isn't really a thing, as much of a thing as heat is and darkness is also not really a thing, as much of a thing as light is. Is Enformy a thing, or are you making the same mistake as the Hindus (zero) made as according to the Greeks who asked "how can nothing be something?" :cool: — Agent Smith
So those who imagine Energy as a "tangible thing" (physical fluid?) are taking the symbolic figure-of-speech metaphor literally. And that's a common conceptual problem in philosophical dialog. — Gnomon
Scharf goes on to be more explicit about "non-physical" Energy*2 : "But it's hard to point at any phenomenon in nature and say, 'that is energy'. A photon is not energy. . . . . It's one reason physicists always wince when a science fiction tale mentions anything being made of 'pure energy', because that's just wrong". — Gnomon
However, you may be thinking of "non-physical" Energy as an abstraction equivalent to "pure energy". And such abstractions include Mathematical ratios such as those of Thermodynamics. — Gnomon
Also, in my personal worldview of Enformationism, I equate Energy with Generic Information : the power to enform, or to change forms. :smile: — Gnomon
But, what is Energy or Force anyway? For scientific purposes, it is a general property (Causation) of the universe as a system, which causes changes in material substances. — Gnomon
So which is it? Sadly, these are not physical, but metaphysical queries. Hence, any answers we propose can never be proven true or false by means of empirical evidence. — Gnomon
How that non-physical creative power got embedded in the physical world is not a scientific question. — Gnomon
here is no Why (which does not beg this Why question further); and as for the How, theoretical symmetry-breaking (i.e. vacuum fluctuations, etc) suffices. — 180 Proof
And since there is only one state of nothing-ness relative to the infinitely many states of not-nothing-ness, the probability of the former relative to the latter is vanishing close to zero (which, IMO, is the only state-of-affairs so infinitely improbable that it paradoxically necessitates an "Absolute Being" to sustain "Absolute Nonbeing" :scream:). — 180 Proof
There is not any experimental corroboration or theoretical function in fundamental physics for "God" but there are both for vacuum fluctuations. — 180 Proof
OK, that’s just assigning a completely fictional long-term goal. I agree with that, but was trying to say that they don’t address long term goals in this life. — noAxioms
New carbon capture initiatives are an example of actions which are directly targeted at 'undoing,' damage already done, as are all efforts to stop releasing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere so that such as the ozone layer can recover. A great deal of work is also being done to help coral reefs repair.I seem to see only suggestions of slowing the destruction, not in any way undoing any of it — noAxioms
It buys time, but actually makes the crash worse. — noAxioms
Slowing an advance, if continued, can eventually STOP an advance and eventually REVERSE an advance. Each of us must do what we can to help.but I cannot actually find any suggested action that doesn’t just fall under the category of slowing the advance. — noAxioms
Could be much the same as life in the box you currently call your home. The only difference would be that you need a spacesuit to go outside. That may happen here anyway, if your predictions of the effects of climate change all come true. Logan's run just suggested you get killed when you get to a certain age. What's that dystopian storyline got to do with potential human life on Mars? We want to explore and develop space not exclusively to solve our problem of excess population or the extinction threat we have due to 'having all of us on one planet only.' (your Logan's run suggestion would not even solve that one.) We want to go boldly go where no-one has gone before, that's embedded deep in our nature. It is a large part of our intent and purpose. Your home is a box, as is your nation and your planet and our solar system and our galaxy. The boxes get a lot bigger as you leave your home box (your house or your planet.)That’s the life in a box. Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to do it here, kind of like Logan’s run? — noAxioms
You don’t want some kind of authority to keep each of the planets in the federation from stepping out of the agreements? — noAxioms
Yes, that one. Capitalism has a nice motivator for that, but I have to admit that socialism also can do it, as evidence by the work ethic of more social countries. I suspect much of the problem is identification of a non-cooperative attitude with your peer group. For example, resistance to the Covid vaccines has been assiciated with a conservative viewpoint. Getting a shot is seen as a vote for the wrong party, so they don’t. I lost a sister-in-law to that mentaility. I’m such a proponent of free speech, but I obviously see a downside to it. — noAxioms
OK, I admit to not being up on the terminology, and agree that no country seems to actually operate under a system that their ‘label’ is supposed to describe.[/quote]A republic is simply free of monarchic or aristocratic rule. A republic can be a socialist democratic republic. There have been some countries labelled as such but those proved to be nothing more than an abuse of the label — noAxioms
I don’t see it much, but there’s a reason that many sorts of surveillance is restricted or just plain illegal. There is very much potential of misuse if you already have the data for supposedly normal purposes. — noAxioms
Agreed but I think it is possible to get a general overview. I don't like citing theistic Hollywood BS, but it's the only (relatively poor) example that springs into my head. In the film 'It's a Wonderful life,' Jimmy Stewart is shown how he positively impacted the lives of others. Such criteria is one way to measure your life, imo.Agree except for the logic. Whether my life was better not lived or not depends heavily on the gauge by which the benefit of it is measured. — noAxioms
I got lost in the jargon enough that I couldn’t make that assessment. It was that for which I was looking. — noAxioms
It's about theoretical Philosophy, not empirical Science. — Gnomon
A photon is an energy concentration/packet/excitation in an energy field/potential to do work.A photon is not energy. — Gnomon
I understand this in the sense that for me neither energy nor information have any manifestation unless they come as a unit; — punos
Why "vacuum fluctuations" and not "God", that is if an answer with no explanation is sufficient? — punos
:up:I have watched that video previously, and i just watched it again. Thanks — punos
How do you know no physical evidence will be possible, it depends on exactly what is covered in the future by the label 'physical.' Once we have 'real' AI/AGI/ASI, who knows how far and how quickly our scientific knowledge will advance. The only aspects/attributes of god posits I ever see any credence for are emergent in humans. The omni labels, like the concept of zero do have some practical use as placeholders and as non-existents that we can nonetheless, asymptotically aspire to.no physical evidence will be possible, only computational evidence which can be checked by computer simulation. — punos
So do you not accept photons, gluons as the fundamentals of energy, measured in elecrton-volts or joules? — universeness
Because such a god posit is 'of the gaps.' 'An answer with no(or insufficient) explanation YET, does not mean insufficient explanation FOREVER. How does slotting in god help us meantime? Why would that turn insufficient into sufficient? What have we gained if we say god did it? Should 'god did it,' ever provide all humans (especially those with a mind towards scientific investigation) with an excuse to stop asking detailed questions that can and must be asked about quantum fluctuations in the vacuum of space. I vote for continuing to try to find the answers we want and never be satisfied with the delusional god answer. — universeness
How do you know no physical evidence will be possible, it depends on exactly what is covered in the future by the label 'physical.' — universeness
Ok, It seems we type mainly, in unison. — universeness
No, I am willing to collectivise and work together, but my individuality is also essential.
Hivemind's have a totalitarian ruler. F*** that shit!!!! — universeness
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