This is obfuscating. What do you mean we don't "know" this? — schopenhauer1
We say it does because it matters that our babies get milk and are kept warm. We also love puppies and squirrels. — plaque flag
Like I said, semantic problem. You can check out my 'the being of meaning' thread for more, if you are curious.
I can talk the usual sloppy talk in ordinary life, but I think Hegel and Heideggar are right. There's a blurry average intelligibility that mostly doesn't notice its lack of grip. One emits the usual platitudes, appeals to the obvious, without hearing that one's thinking is being done for one, by one [ das Man ].
Philosophy makes darkness visible, drags ignorance into the light, wakes up the marching zombie. — plaque flag
Yes animals with a first person perspective, but of anything else? Photosynthesis? — schopenhauer1
We usually say that some things can sense and be aware of things and some things can't. You disagree? — schopenhauer1
This is an empirical question. Some humans nurture plants and beetles. Few if any nurture rocks. — plaque flag
The plants don't feel something though. — schopenhauer1
No. I don't disagree. I just don't think we know very well what we mean. — plaque flag
I don't know what it means to say so. Yes, I can talk the usual fuzzy talk. That's why I say look to deeds. We incinerate the dead, anesthetize the living for root canals. — plaque flag
Sure !But we don't incinerate the living (or we shouldn't) and anesthetize the dead — schopenhauer1
Sure !
But the use of 'but' doesn't make sense here, because you are merely expanding my point. — plaque flag
what is simply events eventing (behaviors all the way down), and what is "feels-likeness"? — schopenhauer1
The nexus between an object being bombarded by effects of the universe and and an object being bombarded by effects that matters is consciousness. — schopenhauer1
He has a paper suggesting that qualia - broadly speaking, knowledge of good and bad - comes into existence with any form of living organism. There's nothing good or bad in chemistry or physics - stuff just happens. But as soon as there's a living organism, even the most rudimentary, then that organism has to navigate away from what harms and towards what helps. So the emergence of sentient life-forms is the emergence of a dimension of being that is not possible in the inorganic domain. — Wayfarer
But qualia are slippery eels. — plaque flag
In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Pirsig distinguishes between two modes of understanding the world: the classic and the romantic. The classic mode of understanding is based on the rational and analytical approach of traditional philosophy, while the romantic mode is based on intuition and direct experience. According to Pirsig, these two modes of understanding are not mutually exclusive, but rather complementary, and he believes that they can be integrated through a metaphysics of quality.
Pirsig sees quality as a kind of objective reality that is independent of subjective perceptions or preferences, and that is inherent in all things. He believes that the pursuit of quality is what gives meaning and purpose to human existence, and that it is the key to a fulfilling and satisfying life. The metaphysics of quality that Pirsig proposes is an attempt to reconcile the classical and romantic modes of understanding by recognizing the importance of both reason and intuition in the pursuit of quality. — ChatGPT
It totally makes sense that life responds differentially and can (must ? ) be interpreted as seeking and avoiding.
But qualia are slippery eels. — plaque flag
while the romantic mode is based on intuition and direct experience. — ChatGPT
To distinguish between what is to be sought, and what is to be avoided, is to make a distinction of kind, which is to categorize, and this is a qualia based judgement. — Metaphysician Undercover
So it's hard to call the universe an organism, because it has no environment. Life climbs a ladder. It 'shits' more disorder than it creates. — plaque flag
Things tend to fall apart, but here we are, strange primates, increasing in complexity, godlike cyborgs, now creating synthetic brains better than our own. Even from the outside, we are not [just] drifting spacerock. — plaque flag
We can take an external view and look at patterns that stubbornly resist being erased. The pattern doesn't 'want' to die. — plaque flag
Philosophy makes darkness visible, drags ignorance into the light, wakes up the marching zombie. — plaque flag
:fire: :100: I'm jazzed by the way you dance!qualia are slippery eels. — plaque flag
As I discern things, there is no "hard problem" for scientists, just another hard confusion that semantically bewitches philosophers. — 180 Proof
More context plesse.But what do you make of 'wondering at a tautology'? — plaque flag
I suspect you agree with Freddy ...Do you see/feel why this confusion is tempting?
Philosophers, more than most, are 'bewitched by language', no?But there is no such substratum; there is no "being" behind doing, effecting, becoming; "the doer" is merely a fiction added to the deed – the deed is everything. — On the Genealogy of Morals
:cool:Thank you for the kind words ! Especially from you they are valued.
Well played.
More context plesse. — 180 Proof
I suspect you agree with Freddy ...
But there is no such substratum; there is no "being" behind doing, effecting, becoming; "the doer" is merely a fiction added to the deed – the deed is everything.
— On the Genealogy of Morals — 180 Proof
Philosophers, more than most, are 'bewitched by language', no? — 180 Proof
:up:Doers are fictional / conventional (essentially social) foci of responsibility. — plaque flag
p-zombies are tautologies and subjective beings are contradictions ... — 180 Proof
Like tautologies, 'p-zombiies' are devoid of content. They are merely there (à la Chinese Rooms). — 180 Proof
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