They do say travel broadens the mind. Most Scots I know would be glad to know an altruist such as yourself.

All the military empires of those times with their colourfully dressed toy looking soldiers, whose leaders brought them in army formations, to fight and be slaughtered in muddy fields, all seemed to me to be small variations on a seriously 'f***** up' theme.

'Honour and Glory,' we start the fight at an agreed time and not a second before!
We die and kill to the background music of pipe and drum.
Open with the cannons, flank them! flank them! send in the cavalry with infantry support, ....... and we all fall down! The Prussians, The Russians, The French, The British, The Austrians, The Hungarians, etc etc. Beautiful war to see which gangland culture wins and which bunch of nefarious elite f***wits get to rule Europe!!!!
The only worthwhile lesson from all such historical events has already been put into a song.
'WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothin.'
Any culture birthed from or maintained by war or the constant threat of it and preparation for it, will continue to fail.

I am having a problem thinking of anything positive to say. Maybe on another day, I will have a more positive outlook. Today the closest I come to something positive to say is providing a better definition of culture.

the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group. — Oxford Dictionary

They do say travel broadens the mind. Most Scots I know would be glad to know an altruist such as yourself.

All the military empires of those times with their colourfully dressed toy looking soldiers, whose leaders brought them in army formations, to fight and be slaughtered in muddy fields, all seemed to me to be small variations on a seriously 'f***** up' theme.

'Honour and Glory,' we start the fight at an agreed time and not a second before!
We die and kill to the background music of pipe and drum.
Open with the cannons, flank them! flank them! send in the cavalry with infantry support, ....... and we all fall down! The Prussians, The Russians, The French, The British, The Austrians, The Hungarians, etc etc. Beautiful war to see which gangland culture wins and which bunch of nefarious elite f***wits get to rule Europe!!!!
The only worthwhile lesson from all such historical events has already been put into a song.
'WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothin.'
Any culture birthed from or maintained by war or the constant threat of it and preparation for it, will continue to fail. — universeness

That is a different point of view from my understanding of what a nation is about. Like the US had some small wars, but they did not involve most of us until the world wars. We strongly stood against the taxes to maintain a large army or navy, until the military technology of WWII. Our education had nothing to do with wars but was about a culture and democratic way of life and fulfilling enlightenment dreams for a better world.

I don't know if it is me but today both of you both seem horribly depressing and I have pulled up a positive take on the opportunity to say what is right about the founding of the US and democracy for the last time. If this discussion does not improve, it might be time to end it.

If this discussion does not improve, it might be time to end it. — Athena

I think the facts on the ground won't change. So, probably yes.

I fully believe that the human race can and will create a civilisation that is better than any human civilisation that has ever existed in the past. Civilisations like ancient Greece or USA today will be nothing more than additions to the large list of examples of past attempts that utterly failed and fully deserved to.
The best way for humans to BE is yet to come. On another thread, I listed the top 5 barriers I think we need to terminate completely or reduce to a relatively powerless minimum.
Creating that culture IS INDEED critical imo. We need to make the following benign:
1. Money
2. Capitalism
3. Primal fear.
4. Religion/theism/theosophism
5. Mental aberrations in others, such as narcissism, cult of celebrity, cult of personality, a need to follow others blindly without question.

I fully believe that the human race can and will create a civilisation that is better than any human civilisation that has ever existed in the past. Civilisations like ancient Greece or USA today will be nothing more than additions to the large list of examples of past attempts that utterly failed and fully deserved to.
The best way for humans to BE is yet to come. On another thread, I listed the top 5 barriers I think we need to terminate completely or reduce to a relatively powerless minimum.
Creating that culture IS INDEED critical imo. We need to make the following benign:
1. Money
2. Capitalism
3. Primal fear.
4. Religion/theism/theosophism
5. Mental aberrations in others, such as narcissism, cult of celebrity, cult of personality, a need to follow others blindly without question. — universeness

Now you give me something I can talk about. Thank you.

If we had always lived in Eden, and grew up without fear and a need to compete for scarce resources perhaps that future you believe is possible would already be here and now. Along with the Enlightenment is the New Age hope. The New Age being a time of high tech and peace and the end of tyranny.

Our developing technology has indeed so changed our consciousness that we can relate to those who made history. How could they have not known slavery was a terrible thing? How could they have abused and exploited laborers as they did? Why didn't they always see things as wrong as cannibalism? What I am arguing is that insistence that war is a major part of our lives and not patting ourselves on the back for how far we have come is a negative and destructive mindset.

We have been undergoing rapid social and economic change and this creates instability and anxiety, and this is expressed in social and economic problems. If we realize how much we have progressed and how rapid change affects the whole of society then we might have better moral judgment and actualize our human potential of improving life on earth by being cooperative.

I think your list of necessary changes has merit but those changes are very problematic. The place to start making those changes is a return to education for good moral judgment and citizenship. About #5 somehow I was strongly indoctrinated to believe being a good citizen means lifelong learning and independent thinking. We had education for independent thinking which is vital to a democracy, and in 1958 we replaced that education with education for groupthink and the rapid advancement of technology. There are huge social, economic, and political ramifications of this change.

Now because advanced technology gives us the potential ability to manifest Eden, we needed that focus on education for technology, but because we lacked understanding of the importance of culture and what education has to do with culture, what was good has become bad, and we need to correct the problem with education.

I think the facts on the ground won't change. So, probably yes. — Vera Mont

Philosophy is about so much more than facts.

Philosophy is about so much more than facts. — Athena

Yes. But if it isn't grounded in factual information about the world, it is fantasy.

I fully advocate, that we need to provide high quality, free, education for all citizens from cradle to grave.
I think we both agree that YOU should have ZERO concerns at this stage in YOUR life, (or indeed at any stage of life) regarding good quality accommodation, free and fully available for as long as you require it. Free and full access to any medical assistance you ever require and that assistance should be the highest quality available within current technology. Free education in any subject you wish to pursue. Access to opportunity to give you as many options as possible for how you wish to direct your life in accordance with, 'from each according to ability and will, to each according to need.' Finding your own cause and purpose in life should be fully supported by your local, regional and national authorities.
You should also be able to take all other basic needs for granted including, food, drink and personal security. That is the human civilisation/culture I think we CAN build, and will eventually build, on a global scale.

Oh yes, fantasy, the first step to human progress, resolving problems, creating a better world. If humans stop being creative and stop having fantasies, and innovating, will they have a life worth living?

I fully advocate, that we need to provide high quality, free, education for all citizens from cradle to grave.
I think we both agree that YOU should have ZERO concerns at this stage in YOUR life, (or indeed at any stage of life) regarding good quality accommodation, free and fully available for as long as you require it. Free and full access to any medical assistance you ever require and that assistance should be the highest quality available within current technology. Free education in any subject you wish to pursue. Access to opportunity to give you as many options as possible for how you wish to direct your life in accordance with, 'from each according to ability and will, to each according to need.' Finding your own cause and purpose in life should be fully supported by your local, regional and national authorities.
You should also be able to take all other basic needs for granted including, food, drink and personal security. That is the human civilisation/culture I think we CAN build, and will eventually build, on a global scale. — universeness

No, I would not want life if my life is completely useless. Whatever I get should make it possible for me to be a valuable member of society, and if I can no longer be of value, please, pull the plug!

Oh my goodness, please, I do not want all you offer. I think it would be absolutely dreadful to have everything without it being because of my own effort.

But for a purpose in life, the book I am reading now has given me a new purpose in life. The book is titled Preventable and this link should get you to an explanation of it. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/55246090

I would love to see a memorial day for civil service workers. I want that holiday to tell the story of how many civil service workers including nurses and ambulance drivers, and CNAs who worked in nursing homes, died because we did not maintain the supplies that were essential to saving their lives. We were ready for a pandemic because of Ebola and knowing the threat of a pandemic. Obama saw to that. But we did not maintain what was already in place. These people were superheroes because of our shame of letting things get so bad. This includes the health/medical neglect of those living in poverty because they were paid terrible wages and continued to do their essential work jobs even though the condition of poverty increased their risk of dying. If you care you may like the book as much as I do.

It should include those who ran into the burning building the day of 9/11. Let us honor our heros who gave their lives because they deserve that every bit as much as fallen shoulders, and because we need to look at each other and see a potential hero because I believe most of us would be heroes if we were in a situation that required heroes. The number one thing we have to do is love each other and override the destructive Christian notion that we are not worthy without a god saving us.

Oh yes, fantasy, the first step to human progress, resolving problems, creating a better world. — Athena

And that - even if it's about a fictional past, an imaginary present, a non-existent reality - turns it into "philosophy"? Plato might go for it. I don't.

And that - even if it's about a fictional past, an imaginary present, a non-existent reality - turns it into "philosophy"? Plato might go for it. I don't. — Vera Mont

Okay, I think I can work with what you said. I agree with you about the importance of facts, but this should never reduce our ability to fantasize about a better life and how we might achieve it. It is our creativity that separates us from other animals. Life is what we make it, not exactly what a god gives us.

I see being overly concerned with facts as fascist. It makes people crazy, intolerant, and prone to violence. This is a serious cultural problem and it is what the US stood against. We have destroyed the culture that made the US great. Some changes may be good, but the loss of the culture we transmitted through public education is not good. The US is in big trouble right now.

And as we all do, every day, both as individuals and as groups.

They also conquered foreign lands whose gods had to be accommodated, assimilated, or subsumed in their own pantheon, because direct suppression invariably engenders a stiffer resistance. The RCC didn't care, because it was squandering the human and material resources of independent nations on its religious wars. But ancient civilizations had to budget their available resources. Some foreign gods were also imported through commerce and migration; some of these gained popular support. — Vera Mont

We have agreement but perhaps how we feel about these facts is different? I think what has happened is wonderful. It makes me happy. It might have been better without the wars. I sure don't want wars today but our planet has too many humans right now and we would have suffered from that much earlier if we didn't kill each other. Another good thing about war is it stimulates technological advancement. We did not have the knowledge and technology to feed the masses that need to be fed today. But all in all, the expansion of our consciousness is totally awesome.

I think we are in the Resurrection with archeologists and geologists and related sciences, raising awareness of our past. It is our responsibility today to learn as much as we can, and rethink everything. Hopefully, we can gain knowledge fast enough to save our planet and humanity. Just not the amount of humanity we have today.

How do you feel about it all?

Oh my goodness, please, I do not want all you offer. I think it would be absolutely dreadful to have everything without it being because of my own effort. — Athena

Progress allows us to focus on higher order tasks than before. Would you still rather clothes were washed in the local stream in comparison with using a washing machine? Think of how mush time and effort people could assign to improving their knowledge and pushing the current boundaries of what we know, if everyone could take all basic needs for granted.

agree with you about the importance of facts, but this should never reduce our ability to fantasize about a better life and how we might achieve it. — Athena

The two aspects of thought can coexist, but should never be confused. You can imagine a "better" life - in relation to something known, charted, qualifiable and quantifiable - else "better" has neither meaning nor goals.
I'm not that worried about being separated from other animals. The more philosophical distance we put between our aspirations and our biology, our connection to the living world, the less sense our philosophies make. (See religious dualism.)

I see being overly concerned with facts as fascist. — Athena

Nobody knows what anyone else means by "overly." (or fascist)

This is a serious cultural problem and it is what the US stood against. — Athena

A faction of it certainly does now.

The thing is, Republican rejection of reality didn’t start in 2020, or even with the Trump era. Climate change denial — including claims that global warming is a hoax perpetrated by an international cabal of scientists — has been a badge of partisan identity for many years. Crazy conspiracy theories about the Clintons were mainstream on the right through much of the 1990s.

...so I'd go easy on the facile labelling.
It's fine to build castles in the air; I more or less do it as way to stave off Alzheimer's. But I don't move in.

We have agreement but perhaps how we feel about these facts is different? I think what has happened is wonderful. It makes me happy. It might have been better without the wars. — Athena

No. It would have been entirely different without the wars. You don't get to cherry-pick history and plug in different components for the results you want. If you change even one significant event, the whole thing turns out differently. If you're happy with how human history played out, fine. I accept it because there is no available alternative. Neither of our feelings makes the slightest smidgeon of difference.

Another good thing about war is it stimulates technological advancement. — Athena

As long as we're substituting preferred past events, how about doing birth control research instead of weapons research and promoting women's rights instead of fighting over which version of prohibitive Christianity to impose on the masses?

How do you feel about it all? — Athena

Pessimistic.

Progress allows us to focus on higher order tasks than before. Would you still rather clothes were washed in the local stream in comparison with using a washing machine? Think of how mush time and effort people could assign to improving their knowledge and pushing the current boundaries of what we know, if everyone could take all basic needs for granted. — universeness

I appreciate your argument but if someone is retarded and the best contribution this person can make is to fetch water or wash clothes by hand in the stream, that is the job this person needs to do. Taking this job away with indoor plumbing and machines is hurtful to the person who needs to feel valued by the group. I say this because I have worked so much with these people and believe it or not, I speak with compassion and love. What has gone wrong is largely the fact that we don't need these people and we either ignore them on the streets or put them in foster homes where they are taken care of and we do not give them opportunities to feel needed and important.

I worked in a place that trained severely retarded adults for jobs and it was terribly sad knowing there are no jobs for these people, as they try so hard to make themselves useful and valued people. I have lived with them, and I have worked in foster homes. I have also associated with homeless people. For you and me, time to read books and ponder life is very valuable but that is not so for all people.

I ask you to consider how dehumanizing Industry can be. I am sure that is what you are thinking of when you speak of it as an evil. But now think of those closed out of society struggling to be recognized as needed members of society. Their days have nothing to schedule their lives. One day is just like another and if they are not being driven away, they are invisible. There is no place for them and that means not having an identity of someone who belongs. Many don't even have family. I didn't realize how awful this reality is until I lived in a mobile home and our pipes froze. Then we sincerely needed someone to fetch water and suddenly these guys were needed and they stood 10 feet tall.

So what you say is true but it is not the whole truth.

Yes. But if it isn't grounded in factual information about the world, it is fantasy. — Vera Mont

My goodness, between the music I am listening to and explaining the importance of needing to valued and having a sense of belonging, I have a vivid awareness of important it is to ground ourselves with our hearts. Nothing is more real to me at this moment than the reality I know we can live is grounded in our hearts. Without this, we entropy and die.

Reality is about so much more than facts and if we can not deal with that, there is a big problem. To me, you are speaking of the result of education for technology and our technological development and the fact that we are on the brink of a third world war. Some much for being grounded in facts. And we are in complete denial of facts! We are destroying nature and our planet. We are like smokers who can not stop even when they know the health risk. There is more to life than facts our technological society may be a big mistake because it is thinking too much and feeling too little. How do you feel about being on the path of global war?

Right now in the news parents are extremely upset about sex in textbooks. Sex is about a whole lot more than facts and education for technology comes with a big problem of insensitivity, and a sense of a big brother over stepping. It is about time we stand up and tell big brother to back off.

We're drowning in a plastic-infused ocean of feeeeellliiiings. Could use a solid life-preserver of logical reasoning. But that's just my opinion.

The two aspects of thought can coexist, but should never be confused. You can imagine a "better" life - in relation to something known, charted, qualifiable and quantifiable - else "better" has neither meaning nor goals. — Vera Mont

My effort to argue against what you said relies too much on personal thoughts and I am not in a position to be respected for what I think, so I googled for a source that may be respected.

Einstein, 2000):

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.”

“I believe in intuition and inspiration…At times I feel certain I am right while not knowing the reason.”

“My intuition was not strong enough in the field of mathematics to differentiate clearly the fundamentally important…from the rest of the more or less desirable erudition. Also, my interest in the study of nature was no doubt stronger… In this field I soon learned to sniff out that which might lead to fundamentals and to turn aside…from the multitude of things that clutter up the mind and divert from the essentials.”

“The truly great advances in our understanding of nature originated in a way almost diametrically opposed to induction. The intuitive grasp of the essentials of a large complex of facts leads the scientist to the postulation of a hypothetical basic law, or several such laws. From these laws, he derives his conclusions…which can then be compared to experience. Basic laws (axioms) and conclusions together form what is called a “theory.” Every expert knows that the greatest advances in natural science…originated in this manner, and that their basis has this hypothetical character.”

“All great achievements of science must start from intuitive knowledge, namely, in axioms, from which deductions are then made…Intuition is the necessary condition for the discovery of such axioms.”

“I very rarely think in words at all. A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterwards.”

“I was sitting in the patent office in Bern when all of a sudden a thought occurred to me: if a person falls freely, he won’t feel his own weight. I was startled. This simple thought made a deep impression on me. It impelled me toward a theory of gravitation.”

https://christinaleimer.com/intuition-einstein/

I have no idea how well you relate to what Einstein. I just know I can relate to what he said. Especially
“I very rarely think in words at all. A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterward.” I love it when I find someone said what I want to say but just can not find the right words for saying it.

Because of my relationships with low-IQ people, I know if I were stranded in the wilderness, I would rather be with one of them than someone with a high IQ because the person who is more like an animal intuitively is better at survival.

We're drowning in a plastic-infused ocean of feeeeellliiiings. Could use a solid life-preserver of logical reasoning. But that's just my opinion. — Vera Mont

I expected that. So what are you going to do now? Make an effort to expand your consciousness or give up?

I think humanity would be much further ahead if, like the Iroquois, women had always played an important role in our growing human consciousness. I am very excited by the difference empowered women are making and I am not bending to the male standard that I believe is a failure and basic cause of our social and international problems.

Because of my relationships with low-IQ people, I know if I were stranded in the wilderness, I would rather be with one of them than someone with a high IQ because the person who is more like an animal intuitively is better at survival. — Athena

I'd choose a smart dog. But that won't repair the damage we've done to the world.

So what are you going to do now? — Athena

No much. I'll keep growing tomatoes and cucumbers as long as can, try to get over my speed phobia, feed the cats. Probably won't start any more books as they take too long.

Nobody knows what anyone else means by "overly." (or fascist) — Vera Mont

:lol: Then ask. Like how manly to put me on the defense instead of asking for more information.
What is happening here is not pleasant. Being put on the defensive turns things negative.

Fascism is a bureaucratic/social order that is very authoritarian and shifts power from the people to the state, totally crushing individual power and liberty. And this goes very well with Christianity. The US fought two world wars to defend its democratic way of life, before adopting Germany's model of bureaucracy and its model of education for technology that goes it. Add to this Evanglics coming to political power as we mobilized against those godless people of communism and assure loyalty to the Nation by putting God in the pledge of allegiance and on all our money. Yeap, this discussion is right on target. Cultural differences are important.

Uniting a nation with a god who favors them has been very effective ever since Rome.

I'd choose a smart dog. But that won't repair the damage we've done to the world. — Vera Mont

I am not surprised.

My father thought so highly of the book "Emotional Intelligence" that he bought everyone in the family a copy of that book. His ability to be responsible for the metal that took Apollo to the moon, is something we are very proud of. His willingness to take responsibility for his problem with relationships is also something to be proud of.

Fascism is a bureaucratic/social order that is very authoritarian and shifts power from the people to the state, totally crushing individual power and liberty. And this goes very well with Christianity. — Athena

And therefore:

I see being overly concerned with facts as fascist. — Athena

?

I don't think wishing for a little more truth in political and social organization makes me fascist. But i wouldn't dream of suppressing your opinion.

I don't think wishing for a little more truth in political and social organization makes me fascist. But i wouldn't dream of suppressing your opinion. — Vera Mont

Now that is a subject that is best with an exploration of facts. I thought this technological development was largely in the US but thanks to this forum, I have learned the technological bureaucratic development is worldwide. If we want to understand reality it is well worth the effort to understand what has happened.

The bureaucratic change comes for good reasons and it would not be threatening our liberty and personal power if we worked on our culture for empowering individuals and people having a better understanding of liberty and personal responsibility. Our failure to understand the importance of bureaucratic changes and education for technology leaves us powerless to protect our liberty, as our failure to understand bacteria and viruses left us powerless to prevent and cure disease.
We are dealing with a powerful known.

You say our bureaucratic organization which includes education for the Military Industrial Complex does not make us fascist and you are in favor of facts. So how have wars and technology changed our reality as we entered WWI and existed from WWII? What is different about how we organize ourselves?

Pretty much the same thing happened to Athens as it spread its civilization and changed the education focus to groom the new bureaucrats and public speakers. There was debate of the good and bad of this change. We are not debating the change but are simply denying it. Does the following remind you of Trump? Trump is not the problem, but the mass who follow him are the problem.

Definition of Facism..

often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition — merriam-webster

Notice "exalts nation". Australia is just as strong on individuality and personal power as the US ideal but it is about individuals, NOT EXALTING the nation. There is a serious difference. Can you see that? Our richest people are the ones with government contracts and Trump is supportive of this as his followers strongly oppose socialism. Do you disagree?

The only worthwhile lesson from all such historical events has already been put into a song.
'WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothin.'
Any culture birthed from or maintained by war or the constant threat of it and preparation for it, will continue to fail. — universeness

I believe in Biblical terms that is the Beast. The Beast consumes everything at the expense of the people. I want to pull what you said forward because it goes with the argument I am having with Vera Mont. The best model for the Beast is fascism. "Dr. Friedrich Naumann has emphasized the fundamental difference between the war of yesterday and the war of to-morrow. "

The war of the future is a problem of economic organization of the most difficult nature and highest technological achievement, such as has never been hitherto demanded from any army.....
We know that our nation possesses in its industries successful organizers, brains accustom to direct great quantities of material and "personnel" - men who create new conditions of life for whole economic
districts without having to appeal to any mystical authority."

We never ended the government of contracts of WWII but have greatly increased them. The political battle we have now is who gets those government contracts and who pays for them. Culturally speaking is our blindness in the US, and immediately, the near worship of Trump and his nationalism! His "make America great again" is not raising the standard of living but increasing private profits. That greatness is in part selling weapons around the world and at home. It is the Beast of the Bible and supported by Christians who are capitalist and in denial of the harm done to our own and the whole world, as long as it means those at the top get richer and more powerful. You know, God's chosen few who do the work of God in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, putting our nation in greater and greater debt and making the US the targeted world enemy.

You say our bureaucratic organization which includes education for the Military Industrial Complex does not make us fascist and you are in favor of facts. — Athena

No, I don't recall saying that. I said my own respect and desire for facts does not make me fascist.
Bureaucratic organizations of some kind are unavoidable in dealing with the complex needs and interactions of a large, diverse population, especially in times of rapidly developing technological and economic change. I have no objection to a robust, competent civil service - in fact, I believe they are far more stable than elected government administrations, and can do more - allowed to operate according to their mandate - to keep politicians honest than politicians ever do one another.

So how have wars and technology changed our reality as we entered WWI and existed from WWII? — Athena

Humans have had wars throughout their existence; as civilizations grew bigger and more powerful, the wars grew bigger, more deadly and more frequent. They were not caused by bureaucracy or technology; they did not cause either of those things; they have always co-existed within civilization. Wars have been waged with rocks, thrown sticks, fire and long sharp knives, projectile balls and pointy things, things that go bang and things that go thud, things that poison people and sever limb from limb.
Three events changed the attitude the of US conservatives in the wake of WWII: they came out of it the overall winner, the country that scored most points and suffered least loss; they developed the atomic bomb which gave their hawks a sense of invincibility, and the Russian 'communist' state rose up as a major contender for world domination, which threw those same hawks into a state of demented paranoia.

What is different about how we organize ourselves? — Athena

Nothing essential, afaics. Assyria had rulers, aristocrats generals, soldiers, spies, administrators, shills, rich men, poor men, beggars, priests, scribes, magistrates, lawyers, garda, criminals, hucksters, supervisors, pedants, crafters, traders, merchants, labourers, landowners and peasants - just like Athens, just like Medieval France, the Cordoban Caliphate or modern USA.

Does the following remind you of Trump? Trump is not the problem, but the mass who follow him are the problem. — Athena

They're both enormous problems. I don't think they're fascist -- I don't think they any longer have a coherent 'ism' or credo - that started unravelling with Nixon and his unholy alliance with the the South - or any ideology beyond grasping at power by any and all means. They - and their loyal yes-men in the congress and senate absolutely, point-blank renounce facts. They spurn the constitution, debase every agency of legitimate governance, trample on civil rights and education and deny the electorate a means of expression. They will make civil war... Well, not a new one: The American Civil War Part II.

As a 20+ I remember being in a Glasgow pub with my father.
He was not a 'hardman' himself, but he knew a few.
There was a well known Glasgow gangster in the pub, holding court with other gangsters, when I overheard him say 'I'll tell yous what a hardman is, it's just some f***er with f*** all left to lose.'
I remember a flash of Kirk Douglas playing Spartacus, flashed through my mind, saying the line 'a slave does not fear death, death is the only freedom a slave knows about.'
Over time I have thought a lot about that.
What causes humans to fight and kill each other rather than work with each other in common cause?
I know each of you could give me a long list of reasons.
I think this most important of issues has yet to be fully answered.
Is 'hell' really 'other people?'
Is it true that we love and need company but we also need solipsism to be true, but not always.
You are both intelligent people. Can intelligent people make a global human civilisation that works, or is the 'hell is other people,' concept just too strong in humans?
I simply believe that we can do better than we ever have in the past!
I don't really care how we achieve it. I have already offered my own personal top 5 horrors we need to make benign. We have spent too long in tribes, city states, nations, allies and axis, etc, at war, recovering from war and preparing for the next war. We must find ways to do better. We can talk about the past and the reasons why we are where we are now, forever.
Can we not focus on how we think we can make a better world?

I remember a flash of Kirk Douglas playing Spartacus, flashed through my mind, saying the line 'a slave does not fear death, death is the only freedom a slave knows about.' — universeness

You told me the revolt was all about 'love of freedom'!

Is 'hell' really 'other people?' — universeness

In a way - but not through or because of their presence. It's really only a few other people: the ones who can invent both a concept of hell and the means of creating some facsimile of it on earth. One of those means is convincing the weak-minded of their own right to lead and decide.

Is it true that we love and need company but we also need solipsism to be true, but not always. — universeness

That's a difficult question, what with the qualifier tacked to its tail. We need society of some kind - and it doesn't necessarily have be our own species. Most of us do crave the companionship of like-minded humans, and the affection of friends, family, the love and loyalty of a mate. Of course we're self-centered, but that doesn't exclude mutual help, protection and co-operation; it doesn't preclude compassion, empathy and altruism. We - as all intelligent animals - are capable of containing and balancing a large number of drives and impulses and ideas that may sometimes be in conflict, one with another.

Can intelligent people make a global human civilisation that works, or is the 'hell is other people,' concept just too strong in humans? — universeness

That depends on the number of people, the space they occupy and the resources available to them. Quite a lot of human groups seem to have been able to form and maintain societies that worked.

I simply believe that we can do better than we ever have in the past! — universeness

Not at this juncture in history. Maybe someday.

Can we not focus on how we think we can make a better world? — universeness

We each are doing what we believe we need to, and can. (except I'm shirking again. Hell isn't other people; other people - well, them and the scrabble game - are what I seek out as a relief from proofreading hell.)