What are the defining features of being a human? — Andrew4Handel

What for? That's a serious question: For what purpose is it important to define what human is? The taxonomy hasn't been disputed for some little while. No other claimants have come forward. We're not expecting to be carded at some cosmic disco. So - what for?

What about the possibly infinite diversity of individual subjective experience? Could we all be having profoundly unique and unmatched experiences? — Andrew4Handel

Nah! Air, water, food, warm and cold, fear, comfort, infancy, pratfalls, agonizing first love, bad poetry, parents just don't get it, fear of failure, enormous highs of exuberance.... All much of a muchness... all happening in a distinct, isolate, separate skin to a particular, unique consciousness, 8 billion times in eight billion different ways.

What are the defining features of being a human? — Andrew4Handel

Discursive metacognition.

Do you believe that there are any unique human traits?

As a species, we produce knowledge by which we ratchet-up ourselves out from every ecological niche we've inhabited (so far).

Are there sex differences that give us a different embodiment experience or sexed perspective on being human?

Outies and Innies (i.e. yin and yang).

Or do men and women have some fundamental human traits making our experiences likely very similar?

Natality-desire-mortality & reasoning.

What about the possibly infinite diversity of individual subjective experience? Could we all be having profoundly unique and unmatched experiences?

Possibly but only if each individual is a member of a different species.

For what purpose is it important to define what human is? — Vera Mont

It strikes me that a human is a real definable entity distinct from other things.

Some thinkers have already argued for us having unique traits such as a very sophisticated language with thousands of words and numerous uses as well as story telling, inventiveness, creativity, awareness of our mortality and our ability to think about things like infinity and mathematics.

Some of these things do not seem to rely on our body as opposed to our mental architecture but they combine mental and physical to make who we are.

I am wondering if we are just random arbitrary creations or some how maybe an inevitable product of nature or maybe something we can never pin down or ethereal.

I believe we do have unique abilities but I wonder if our physical body is like an arbitrary vessel from which our mental life exhibits itself.

Initially though I was wondering what makes male and females both humans. Is it just our brains or our genetics? In some species male and female are very different looking, one tiny one large for example and in some species both sexes are quite similar. And there are things only females can do like carry a child. So I also feel as if my sexed body may form a substantial part of my self.

I am rambling a bit sorry.. In sum. I feel like I know what it is to be human but also I don't and am puzzled.

It strikes me that a human is a real definable entity distinct from other things. — Andrew4Handel

So's an eraser..... but what's the point?

Some thinkers have already argued for us having unique traits such as a very sophisticated language with thousands of words and numerous uses as well as story telling, inventiveness, creativity, awareness of our mortality and our ability to think about things like infinity and mathematics. — Andrew4Handel

unique among thousands of other animals that also unique for the ability to produce honey, a talent for echo-location or the ability mimic the colouration of their environment. So?

Initially though I was wondering what makes male and females both humans. — Andrew4Handel

Oh, that. As you were.

The point about the male-female distinction and you can include intersex conditions here is that what makes us human must transcend sex differences. So being human could not rest on the ability to give birth or produce sperm because these things are sex specific.

Having a heart is not unique to humans so it seems features like these found in many other species could not be what makes us human.

So's an eraser..... but what's the point? — Vera Mont

Being an eraser would be a weak emergent property.

The attributes of humans are the most profound and sophisticated ones of anything on earth.

You couldn't have this conversation with an eraser could you? Or a bee.

You couldn't have this conversation with an eraser could you? Or a bee. — Andrew4Handel

Not this one, no. OTOH, somehow all the people looking for how people are unique neglect to mention the unique human ability to fuck in numerous, varied and spectacular ways.

We are all far more alike than we like to think we are. I sometimes wish we embraced this more than we seem to at times, yet still I am far more scared of mobs rather than singular persons.

...somehow all the people looking for how people are unique neglect to mention the unique human ability to fuck in numerous, varied and spectacular ways. — Vera Mont

Good observation, but I'm not sure bonobos wouldn't put up a serious challenge there.

Defining features of humans.

We cook our food. The degree to which we can manipulate and investigate our environment. We are space goers as well as deep sea explorers - our frontiers extend far beyond that of any survival habitat of other animals. Art. Our genome. The complexity and peculiarities of our languages. The capacity/range and resolution of our 5 physical senses. Our religions (as far as I know other animals don't have spiritual practices or engage in philosophy), the length of human childhood/maturation. Our athroponososes (diseases and infections that only affect humans).

There are many distinguishing features of being human.
Both behaviourally, cognitively and physically.

aaaannndddd....
Only humans argue over whether somebody is male or female, either, neither, both, too female, not female enough, and whether they should be allowed to be whatever they say they are.

Good observation, but I'm not sure bonobos wouldn't put up a serious challenge there. — wonderer1

Oh yeah?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/europe/ukraine-nova-kakhovka-dam-environment-damage-intl-hnk/index.html

I was taking "fuck" more literally than you seem to have meant it.

I knew it was a joke... I just couldn't leave it alone for long. Kind of like the cat sleeping on my computer right now - oh, so tempting! And I'm pretty sure that's not a uniquely human failing.

annnnnnd only Humans are capable of magical thinking, delusion, believing you can change sex and be born in the wrong body and that you can turn a penis into a vagina and medical malpractice.

Our religions (as far as I know other animals don't have spiritual practices or engage in philosophy — Benj96

Religion is a strange human phenomena and the way we treat the dead and consider the afterlife and the wide variety of religious beliefs and mythologies. These things appear to be internal in terms of personal beliefs but with external manifestations like churches and temples and iconography, prose music and ritual.

These seem to be intellectual, mental or cognitive traits of humans that you could not guess at by looking at us. But do they rely on our embodiment in a human physical form?

Some religions have a male monotheistic and paternalistic deity, others have male and female gods and goddesses with capricious behaviours and others have animal or alien deities.

This seems to illustrate an crazy diversity in human behaviour that seems to set us miles apart from other living things. Although some animals do display mourning and ritualistic behaviours towards the dead.

Sometimes being human seems mundane and stifling but reflecting on our capacities seems to imbue us with specialness. And then we seem to be the only philosophic creature prone to existential crises.

The fundamental features of any animal is its anatomy. Anatomy is a direct one-to-one ratio with all behaviors, capacities, abilities, etc.

Has anyone questioned the identity of humans? Well, I mean anyone outside of humans questioning/denying the right of other humans to belong in the same species with themselves?
Why this recurring need to re-affirm our identity?
Or this obsession with the gender identity?
Just how insecure are we??

What about the possibly infinite diversity of individual subjective experience? Could we all be having profoundly unique and unmatched experiences? — Andrew4Handel

I'm not sure how one might quantify the degree to which experiences are profoundly unique and unmatched.

We all have unique brains, so from a physicalist perspective, and in light of the diversities of our life experiences, I don't see how we could not have profoundly unique and unmatched experiences.

On the other hand, I think one of the most unique thing about humans is the 'bandwidth' with which we communicate amongst ourselves, which leads to an ability to 'get on the same page'. (Not to say we're nearly as good at it as we might like to be.)

Being really good at copying. In a nutshell.

This issue makes me think about the concept of properties of reality. I think the big bang concept and the idea of reducing things to few basic laws of physics is an attempt to reduce down or explain away emergent properties as being dependent on simple basic elements.
So more complex properties are subservient to basic atom interactions and physical laws.

In this sense phenomena like, pain, thought, dreams, imagination, personality, consciousness and pain and so on that form part of being human are promised to be subsumed into some kind of basic unified model of reality.

But I don't see these things as being reducible to something simpler so I see the emergence of Human traits as more profound and you might say we currently are the thing in reality that contains the most challenging complex and unique properties. And some of these properties like consciousness have been argued to be fundamental.

So my first post makes no sense to you or misses the point of your OP?

Discursive metacognition. — 180 Proof

Do you class this as a physical or mental attribute?

Some humans I believe we recognise as human without them displaying various human cognitive dispositions such as babies and the mentally disabled. I feel that the aspect of humanity found in our cognition is rather abstract and elusive.

Although I do accept it as probably unique to us.

As a species, we produce knowledge by which we ratchet-up ourselves out from every ecological niche we've inhabited (so far). — 180 Proof

You could say we are ubiquitous although we seem to bring various other creatures along on our coattails like cats, dogs and birds and rats. I am someone who has not been abroad and doesn't like much travel. I wonder how much concepts and location and home play a role in being human? In This way we have a diversity of inclinations among humans. On this note there are immobile humans who travel in their minds far distances.

Outies and Innies (i.e. yin and yang). — 180 Proof

I feel like bearing a child for some women may be a transcendent experience. Notwithstanding reluctant and abusive and neglectful mothers. As a men I feel like some female experiences are more profound than any male ones.

We have celebrated (and vilified) men and women and gender diverse in different ways in art and culture. I think we (people) may be in a state of conflict over what it means to be human male and female that may be a hall mark of our species. And we have the massive body of art, literature sociology etc that we have devoted to examining in ourselves.

What are the defining features of being a human? — Andrew4Handel

Language.

Discursive metacognition.
— 180 Proof

Do you class this as a physical or mental attribute? — Andrew4Handel

Yes.

I believe that humans should be treated as if we are special.

This would entail:

a) Not randomly creating humans en masse without putting extreme thought and care into the creation of human life.

b) Not enslaving humans

c) Treating everyone with dignity and intelligence

d) Respecting issues of consent

f) Not creating societies and models and paradigms that worsen or debase the human condition

I think most people would agree to these 5 things - you missed "e".

Problem comes with the interpretation, right? What counts as slavery? I would include wage slavery, but others might not. I can't seem many people agreeing on how "f" should look, even if they all agree with the sentiment. With "a", just how would we determine what counts as 'extreme thought and care'? Maybe 'rigorous' would be better than 'extreme'. But can you see this leading to 'only psychologically stable and wealthy people with means should have children', or any number of unpleasant permutations.

I believe that humans should be treated as if we are special. — Andrew4Handel

Might work for AGI machines (like Asimov's "Law of Robotics") but we're primates, first and foremost, driven by territorial, hierarchical, reproductive & tribal instincts amplified by a sliver of forebrain grey matter into (mal/adaptive) cognitive biases which reinforce in each one of us "I am special" (i.e. "more special than you"). Eusocially constrained self-serving organisms – delusional and struggling. To wit: if we "treat" everyone "as if we are special", Andrew, then no one will be "special". Human facticity – problems for us endure, or strive against, not for us to solve.

d) Respecting issues of consent — Andrew4Handel

How about a man/boy who no longer consents to be a man/boy?
And of course a woman/girl who no longer consents to being one?

...but we're primates, first and foremost... — 180 Proof

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