That may well be true. Most people choose the news that suits them.

What are your thoughts? — Igitur

Not only everything you suggested, but why not select bits and pieces in one's pursuit of truth.

I say this because,
Truth is ultimately what fits--whether it be what fits within reason or experience or expedience etc.
The claim that there's something inherently wrong with so called buffet style religion is rooted in exclusivity, authoritarianism, xenophobia etc. Most if not all religions are in fact a bricolage of other religions,
Etc.

Having said that, I think the same holds true for philosophy and it's branches. I have found it odd, and personally disappointing, that lovers of philosophy, like adherents to religion, are willing to trap themselves in dogma.

Science too, generally.

And politics.

And Social theory.

I wonder why open mindedness is encouraged, but rarely practiced to its ultimate end.

What are your thoughts? — Igitur

Religion is like opium. People take it to keep from curling up in a ball on the floor in the face of adversity like the death of a child. The main threat to religion is good healthcare. So if you look out and find people living with little to no safety net, more religion is on the way.

Modern affairs and lived experience are telling me that people are broadly still sheep that need herding. — Lionino

Yes. Given how quickly the Aufklärer recognized this, it surprises me how few see it today.

What are your thoughts? — Igitur

That seems reasonable and uncontroversial.

Long-lived religious traditions are perhaps the most pronounced form of collective wisdom available to humans. I would not recommend ignoring such a potential storehouse of wisdom, and I think you are eminently reasonable in your desire to investigate further.

So if you look out and find people living with little to no safety net, more religion is on the way. — frank

Good point.

but why not select bits and pieces in one's pursuit of truth. — ENOAH

This is an excellent point. I guess the idea here would be to find truths that fit you, not a particular religion?

Religion is like opium. People take it to keep from curling up in a ball on the floor in the face of adversity like the death of a child. The main threat to religion is good healthcare. So if you look out and find people living with little to no safety net, more religion is on the way. — frank

While I agree that this is largely true, stating this is also largely irrelevant to the post because, obviously, if you are convinced religion is just a coping mechanism, the most logical path would be to ignore it, and find other ways to get truth.

However, there are exceptions to this. I believe that even if most religions are baseless and untrue, they have truths in them, if only useful social constructs, or general wisdom. Even the value of a religious community could be an incentive. You could even use it as a lesson in psychology.

Long-lived religious traditions are perhaps the most pronounced form of collective wisdom available to humans — Leontiskos

Very well stated. This seems to align well with most of the points stated in this discussion.

I guess the idea here would be to find truths that fit you, not a particular religion? — Igitur

With the caveat, that the pursuer be genuine in their pursuit (not as a Law, but if it is to function according to purpose). Hence "what is good for you," means, for e.g., in my "religious" opinion, what gets you to a truth which transcends conventionally existential truth, the latter which maintains the primacy of ego. Thus, it cannot be what is "easy" etc. But rather what functions.

Again, not by way of confession, but for example. I might find Jesus' radical love to work well with Buddhism's no self.

ADDENDUM: problem is Mind craves convention as a mechanism for belief. But that's the point. Religion seeks a truth beyond mind.

Even the value of a religious community could be an incentive. — Igitur

Incentive for what?

For testing religions for truth. For following a religious path at all. I was just listing some benefits of this.

For testing religions for truth. For following a religious path at all. I was just listing some benefits of this. — Igitur

I see. :up:

You mean Aufklärung?

Aufklärer - "Enlighteners"

They realized that the call to "sapere aude" was premature, and required a more educated populus before it would be able to be implemented.

The main threat to religion is good healthcare. — frank

It is probably the other way around. The main threat to good healthcare is the lack of religion. If you are not motivated, if you are depressed, if you are in fact in your own mind already a lost case, the best healthcare in the world won't make a difference. The doctor will simply say, "The patient is not fighting. He has given up already." You need motivation to succeed. You need it even when trying to get better. Good healthcare is simply wasted on people who actually don't want to live.

Saying nonsense again, aren't we?

It is probably the other way around. The main threat to good healthcare is the lack of religion. If you are not motivated, if you are depressed, if you are in fact in your own mind already a lost case, the best healthcare in the world won't make a difference. The doctor will simply say, "The patient is not fighting. He has given up already." You need motivation to succeed. You need it even when trying to get better. Good healthcare is simply wasted on people who actually don't want to live. — Tarskian

Some religions foster resignation and acceptance, though.

Saying nonsense again, aren't we? — Lionino

I believe that religion gives hope, but I also believe that it only works for people who believe that it works.

It gives hope to people who may otherwise be completely hopeless.

Hope is what you need when you are very sick and even fighting for your life, because otherwise you may not even really fight.

https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/dealing-with-a-patient-who-has-given-up/

Psychotherapy Casebook
Dealing With a Patient Who Has Given Up

He sees no purpose in getting treatment for cancer and has declined chemotherapy. He thinks about the future and sees little that encourages him. When he gets these discouraging thoughts, he often dwells on them and sometimes extends them.

I have told him that this is usually not a winning strategy. We all get thoughts, but some of us are able to divert our thinking in a direction that is more reasonable. I suggested that he try to do this.

We made another appointment to meet and talk in 2 weeks. It is his right to decline treatment for a major medical problem. I have no right to impose a strategy on him. Perhaps the power inherent in establishing a relationship will result in his forming a reason for living.

People find meaning in religion and therefore meaning in life itself, and hence, a reason for living. Spirituality diverts our thinking in a direction that is more reasonable. You may not believe it. It may not work for you, but it works for lots of other people.

I don't care what you believe in, you are a completely confused person too deep in your own dogmatic fantasies. As someone else said "You write slop".

You said "The main threat to good healthcare is the lack of religion.". That is false. Depression and suicide attempts have no strong global correlation with religiosity.

They realized that the call to "sapere aude" was premature, and required a more educated populus before it would be able to be implemented. — Leontiskos

I agree you need people trained the right way before encouraging them to heed the motto. But given the number of academics who seem remarkably unenlightened, perhaps it is not normal academic education that is required.

The main threat to good healthcare is the lack of religion. — Tarskian

Can you back that up, with a proper study. I simply don't believe it. The main threat to good healthcare is lack of money and education.

The doctor will simply say, "The patient is not fighting. He has given up already." — Tarskian

It is true that there are powerful psychological effects that can help medical treatment. But the idea that it is all a matter of grit and determination and will-power is bunkum. It's more complicated than that, and not well understood. Some doctors may make that remark to the punters, but they know better. it is just an excuse to avoid getting sued. If your doctor tries it on with you, I recommend you find another doctor - fast.

Good healthcare is simply wasted on people who actually don't want to live. — Tarskian

Well, then, why not just offer them a merciful end instead of forcing them to endure the disease pointlessly?

For testing religions for truth. For following a religious path at all. I was just listing some benefits of this. — Igitur

It may be, of course, that the point of religion is not whether it is true or false, but whether it enables a good (eudaimon) life, or at least a life as good as it can be in the circumstances.

, hang on a sec, so the truth of the matter doesn't factor in (typically contrary to the claims of, say, Shaivists, Zoroastrians, Catholics, Sunnis).
You should come up with a "Healthiness Religion", (implicitly) targeted for such special benefits, perhaps even revisable depending on evidence.
Could take some lessons from, say, Yoga and Hubbard, and perhaps be inviting to (otherwise dehumanized) minority groups.
:up: :wink:

Spirituality, any kind of spirituality actually, tends to have a positive impact on mental health:

https://www.webmd.com/balance/how-spirituality-affects-mental-health

How Spirituality Affects Mental Health

The idea of spirituality means different things for different people. The variety of spiritual beliefs and customs are as varied as the people who practice them. One thing they all have in common is the range of effects they can have on our mental health.

Spirituality can help you deal with stress by giving you a sense of peace, purpose, and forgiveness. It often becomes more important in times of emotional stress or illness.

You may feel a higher sense of purpose, peace, hope, and meaning.

Mental health disorders may be treated with the help of spirituality ...

Mental issues like depression and substance abuse can be a sign of a spiritual void in your life.

Mental health impacts physical health and the ability to recover from physical problems:

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/how-does-mental-health-affect-physical-health

Your mental health plays a huge role in your general well-being. Being in a good mental state can keep you healthy and help prevent serious health conditions. A study found that positive psychological well-being can reduce the risks of heart attacks and strokes.

Mental health conditions can also make dealing with a chronic illness more difficult. The mortality rate from cancer and heart disease is higher among people with depression or other mental health conditions.

But then again, I did not say that it works for everybody. In my opinion, you need to be sufficiently deeply invested in spirituality for it to work. I just assume that if people don't believe that it will work, that it indeed will not.

I also don't think that it is possible to objectively measure faith, hope, or the will to survive. So, I do not trust any figures on the subject.

I agree you need people trained the right way before encouraging them to heed the motto. But given the number of academics who seem remarkably unenlightened, perhaps it is not normal academic education that is required. — Ludwig V

True, but what I would ultimately say is that sapere aude is a dead end. It is premised on the false idea that individuals have wisdom/knowledge independent of and even in opposition to traditions. On my view human progress will happen through traditions or not at all. Individuals thinking for themselves will not achieve collective progress.* Collective progress will only occur when individuals act and think cooperatively, and this is not a bad definition of tradition. (I.e. we could think of tradition as cooperative engagement with those who came before us, and thereby with those around us.)

* This is the old question of the private good vs. the common good.

Spirituality can help you deal with stress by giving you a sense of peace, purpose, and forgiveness. It often becomes more important in times of emotional stress or illness.
You may feel a higher sense of purpose, peace, hope, and meaning.
Mental health disorders may be treated with the help of spirituality ...
Mental issues like depression and substance abuse can be a sign of a spiritual void in your life.
Your mental health plays a huge role in your general well-being. Being in a good mental state can keep you healthy and help prevent serious health conditions. A study found that positive psychological l well-being can reduce the risks of heart attacks and strokes.
Mental health conditions can also make dealing with a chronic illness more difficult. The mortality rate from cancer and heart disease is higher among people with depression or other mental health conditions. — webmed.com

That's better. It does not blame the patient and makes more modest claims. However, I would distinguish sharply between "spirituality" and mental health. They are far from synonymous and both are distinct from religious belief. Can the doctor sensibly advise patients to believe in a religion or some form of spirituality in order to get better faster? I don't think so. So this advice is a bit like advice to make sure one has inherited a good set of genes in order to get better.

I also don't think that it is possible to objectively measure faith, hope, or the will to survive. So, I do not trust any figures on the subject. — Tarskian

That's something we can agree on.

True, but what I would ultimately say is that sapere aude is a dead end. It is premised on the false idea that individuals have wisdom/knowledge independent of and even in opposition to traditions. On my view human progress will happen through traditions or not at all. Individuals thinking for themselves will not achieve collective progress.* Collective progress will only occur when individuals act and think cooperatively, and this is not a bad definition of tradition. (I.e. we could think of tradition as cooperative engagement with those who came before us, and thereby with those around us.) — Leontiskos

I agree with almost all of that. The mythic image of the hero in solitary confrontation with the oppressive dead hand of the past is seriously damaging.

I agree you need people trained the right way before encouraging them to heed the motto. But given the number of academics who seem remarkably unenlightened, perhaps it is not normal academic education that is required. — Ludwig V

Good point. Though academic education is not enough, it is definitely necessary. There are too many academics, especially in the biological sciences, who don't even know how to write properly. I wouldn't call them scientists however, merely researchers or heuretics.

Though academic education is not enough, it is definitely necessary. There are too many academics, especially in the biological sciences, who don't even know how to write properly. I wouldn't call them scientists however, merely researchers or heuretics. — Lionino

Well, I agree that people who intend to write stuff for publishing should learn how to write - and I don't mean just inscribing letters on paper. That's should be expected in addition to academic expertise. I don't know about the Aufklarer, specifically whether they thought that Enlightenment was for everyone. But if they did - and I hope they did - then there is a question how much academic education they expected the person in the street to acquire.