projecting your self loathing on the forums like edgy Dorkneo is doing detracts from the forums even more.

His only interests in this thread is his powerlessness, he doesn't have much control outside of it. It's the only place he can say everything is shit, while forcing it upon others through his obstinance.

The case against suicide is that he's too powerless to even do that... hence why he's here projecting self loathing. Cause pain is a production of desire.

"It's me, and so it's mine. . . ." Even suffering,
as Marx says, is a form of self-enjoyment. Doubtless all desiring-production is, in
and of itself, immediately consumption and consummation, and therefore,
"sensual pleasure." — Deleuze

I think they’re just bitter that people don’t acknowledge Nietzsche’s wisdom even though I have read his stuff and looked on his life and found it odd how he could write such things despite not living any of it:

You can't even detail a thing about his philosophy though.

Evaluations, in essence, are not values but ways of being, modes of existence of those who judge and evaluate, serving as principles for the values on the basis of which they judge. This is why we always have the beliefs, feelings and thoughts that we deserve given our way of being or our style of life. — Deleuze

↪Patterner Nicely put. — Tom Storm

Thanks. But it was only the very lowest hanging fruit. :blush:

Feel free to comment on the mundane.

DNA is the major systematic force that makes us who we are.

Our genes are the most powerful determiners of our personality, behavior and life outcomes. They typically account for 50-70% of the variation. This is true even for complex behaviors such as social status and educational outcomes.

Most people aren't even functioning at 75% of their capabilities. Muted gene expression from a shit diet and lacking energy from allowing their sedentary BMR to rule them. The list goes on...

Our genes are the most powerful determiners of our personality, behavior and life outcomes. They typically account for 50-70% of the variation. — Chisholm

Can you explain. The variation of what? Between what? I agree that DNA plays three biggest role. But I don't know any specifics.

Suicide is certainly a destruction of value. Human life (and the human body) do have an economic value. However, the individual has property rights on his life and his body. Suicide is legitimate, it cannot be confuted in moral and legal terms. However, suicide is certainly a brute destruction of value.

I think the discussion on people deciding to terminate their own lives suffers from several reasoning flaws. It’s as if because suicide would be the permanent cessation of life, and further, because most of us very much want to remain alive, we generally conclude that others should remain alive — or rather that these two facts justify intervening where other adults’ decisions to end their lives are concerned. But I don’t think permanence is a sufficient criterion to justify preventing an action. We make decisions every day that preclude other decisions. That seems to me just a fact of human existence. Few would counsel someone extremely unhappy with a marriage over a long time to stick it out just because a divorce might be an irrevocable split. There’s also a possibility that deeply unhappy marriages will find happiness again, but we respect people’s freedom to decide whether they wish to continue relationships. I think we should afford people the same freedom regarding their relationships with themselves.

I also believe the so-called sanctity of life (or reverence for life) is quite a charade. We may value our own lives deeply and those of others we care about, but clearly, from the way we build our society, we do not value every human life. Life-value is neither an objective fact nor a universally held value. We have no business deciding that others should value life as we happen to. Indeed, we have no business deciding for others what values they ought to hold.

Neither the permanence of death (inevitable, anyhow) nor the frequency of the qualified value of life (our own and those of people we happen to value) is a sufficient condition to justify imposing our will on others.

I think the best argument against suicide, generally speaking, is "if you're talking about, then there must be a part of you that doesn't want to do it."

This discussion doesn’t belong here. You should talk to a therapist — T Clark

What comforting and therapuetic words...

It seems that people are taking this OP very seriously, i don't know if that's warranted, it's like if anyone says the s word now adays, everyone starts freaking out and barking some therapy dogma.

The OP does seem to be legit philosophy.

My argument was that suicide harms everyone that valued the suicidal, including the suicidal's own future selves.

That suicide harms everyone who cared, sometimes devastatingly so, is obvious. What is less obvious is the future self argument, but I think a strong case can be made. In most contexts we treat future selves as moral agents, both unified with, and distinct from, present selves. If factory work causes you cancer that will kill you in 5 years, that is a terminal blow to your future self. Which is a blow your present self, as self-identity unifies past, present, and future selves. But I am quite different from my past selves, I have different beliefs, different motives, different goals, different abilities. Were I able to, I would bitterly resent a past self that killed me.

My rights as a present self are undisputable. But every present self is the future self of a past self. And so, if present selves have rights, future selves of present selves must have those same rights.

I'd say I've had more negative experiences in my life than positive, but regardless, there are things that I look forward to and I want to try lots of experiences. Life is short and death is permanent, and that's the simple equation that keeps me from thinking of suicide.

That said, I'm personally pro euthanasia, and I do believe we should have the freedom to check out if that's the decision we come to.

Life is short and death is permanent, and that's the simple equation that keeps me from thinking of suicide. — Mijin

My argument was that suicide harms everyone that valued the suicidal, including the suicidal's own future selves. — hypericin

:fire:

That said, I'm personally pro euthanasia, and I do believe we should have the freedom to check out if that's the decision we come to. — Mijin

Euthanasia for the terminally Ill is one thing. For someone who is really depressed, or shaken by a loss that seems irrecoverable, that is quite another. I don't think it is ethical to make suicide a safe, available option for the depressed. If depression is a mental illness, then the person is out of their right mind, and does not have the competency to judge such a momentous decision for themselves.

There is plenty of data from depressed folks who attempt suicide, regretting that choice.