A bit of analysis on AUKUS from the Australian Institute of International Affairs - Built on "Hopes and Dreams" – AUKUS and the Future of Australian Foreign Policy

A deal made without consideration by parliament, mind you...

The AUKUS pact — between Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States — was announced publicly in September 2021 by then-Prime Minister Scott Morrison. It involved major strategic commitments, including Australia acquiring nuclear-powered submarines, a significant shift in defense policy. There was no prior debate or vote in Parliament before the announcement. The deal was negotiated and agreed upon at the executive level (primarily within the Prime Minister’s Office, Department of Defence, and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade). Australia's system (a Westminster-style parliamentary democracy) allows the executive considerable discretion in foreign affairs and defense treaties. Constitutionally, the government can enter international agreements without needing parliamentary approval beforehand — although subsequent aspects (like budget appropriations, military base changes, or enabling legislation) may require Parliament's involvement.
After the announcement, the AUKUS deal and its implications have been debated in Parliament and the media, but the original decision was executive-driven.

Now no one will back down. Classic escalation of commitment.

One last explanation before you go buy a sausage...


...and it might be useful for the foreigners to learn how a democracy does voting.

@Banno @Tom Storm @Wayfarer @kazan

24 hours to go folks. Are you nervous? :smirk:

I am reading 'Election Day Reminders', and this one blew my mind:

It’s compulsory: Voting in the 2025 federal election is compulsory for the 18.1 million people on the electoral roll. Anyone who does not cast a vote will not only miss out on having their say in the election but will also receive a non-voter notice and may have to pay a fine.

Holy Moly, I thought that only happened in South America.

The time difference between Spain and AU is +8. So, when I wake up tomorrow morning, I guess most of the election day will probably be in its twilight.

Are you nervous? — javi2541997

Not at all. Election Nights are better than regular programming :smile:

24 hours to go folks. Are you nervous — javi2541997

No, I forgot until you mentioned it. I voted on Monday.

Obama said that if he could take one thing form Australia it would be compulsory voting. Australia consistently has turnout rates above 90%, while U.S. elections often see low participation (65%), especially the midterms (53%). Obama believed that requiring everyone to vote would lead to a government that better reflects the will of the people. I think this is largely true, but not watertight.

No doubt libertarians and Right wingers will disagree ("Governments shouldn't force anyone to do anything!"), but I agree with legal drinking ages, seatbelts, environmental laws too, so I'm in favour of it. There are about 15 countries who enforce compulsory voting and about 20 who nominally have it.

We received electoral commission mail with fines for my adult son for not voting, for a few years after he moved to the US. He eventually had to fill in something like a statutory declaration to the effect he was permanently re-located before he was taken off the rolls. It's taken pretty serioiusly.

Not at all. — Wayfarer

No, I forgot until you mentioned it. I voted on Monday. — Tom Storm

I expected no less from my brave Aussie heroes. :strong:

Compulsory Voting in Australia

Electoral Commission page with history, comparison with other countries and so on.

Remember that the compulsion is not to vote so much as to turn up and have your name crossed off the roll. What you do in the voting booth is up to you. There's some as draw a dick and balls.

Yes. Although you're technically not fined for not voting, you are fined for not ticking your name off the list and taking the ballot sheets. You can actually just walk to the ballot box and drop the paperwork in untouched.

Edit - just repeated what you wrote.

True. Fined for not turning up.

I don't want to say anything about 'foregone conclusion' but it seems awfully like Labor will win another term. I don't think they've been stellar by any means but they're the least worst option.

One thing I've said before, is that it's bad that exploring the option of nuclear energy became a partisan political issue. I don't believe Australia should go all in on nuclear like the Coaltion was pursuing - and for blatantly political ends - but there's a lot happening in that technology, and Australia ought to invest more in building expertise and keeping abreast of developments. I've been watching with interest the role that Big Tech has been playing in the US to develop nuclear power sources for data centres. Australia needs to keep up with those developments, rather than writing nuclear power off as a bad option.

What did you make of Assange’s endorsement of Albo?

Didn’t notice it. But then, Albo gave him more or less a red-carpet welcome when he was released// having also worked very hard for it// it would have been churlish of him not to have reciprocated.

Funny, I thought I saw that a few days ago on the ABC, but can't see it now. I wondered if it was old news that news.com.au only just caught up with.

He's right that support for folk in such situations has been stronger from Albo than previous lib PM's.

I think they were just too afraid of offending the US and in any case thought Assange had made his own bed to lie in.

The Sydney Morning Herald came out with an endorsement for Labor today. It was hardly ringing, saying that Albanese was a small-target, cautious politician with limited vision. But it also said Dutton had run a terrible campaign and gave the electorate no reason to think he’s an alternative PM. Also noted that Labor has a more talented Cabinet with three or four possible successors to Albanese but that Dutton has none. If as I expect the Coalition looses, I wonder if Duttton would stay on (personally doubt it, but can’t see who might step into the breach.)

Fingers crossed that Trump, in his idiocy, creates another unintended benefit and labor does well.

How is it going? :eyes:

I am following the news updates and live results here: Federal Election 2025 live.

When does voting end? You have until 6pm, local time, to vote before polling places close.
That means voting will have ended in eastern states while polls remain open in Western Australia.

Once polling places close, counting begins.

It is 16:00 in AU; thus, the counting is to begin in just two hours!

Right! Most election nights, I've been with family and friends, pizza, drinks, and much conversation, till about midnight. Tonight, though, it will be just me and my dear other. The last few elections the general outcome, if not the detailed results, has been evident by around 9:00 pm. There are panels of talking heads on all the major TV channels with lots of commentary and analysis. As I said, more interesting the regular entertainment. (Also, it might be mentioned, unless there are major upsets, it's not going to be a change of government, so not a real watershed type of election.)

I see. This could be one of the most boring federal elections ever, then. By the way, the press of Spain also says that Labour will win these elections and Alabanese will remain in charge because 67 % of women (born since 1997) are leftist and the feminist vote is very strong there. I don't know where the hell they got that statistic, but the point seems reasonable. They also say that 50 % of men below the age of 29 are also 'labourist' or social-democrat.

Here is the text in Spanish. I know you use ChatGPT; I guess it can help you to translate it into English.

El 67 por ciento de aquellas mujeres nacidas entre 1997 y 2012, muchas de ellas votarán por primera vez, tienden a apoyar a la izquierda, algo que también hacen el 52 por ciento de las chicas de otras generaciones. Según esta encuesta, el 50 por ciento de los hombres menores de 29 años se inclinan por el voto progresista, frente a sólo el 40 por ciento de los hombres de otras generaciones.

Well, East Coast polls just closed. First results soon.

see https://www.abc.net.au/news

:up:

The vote counting is one of the main things that triggers my anxiety.

Yes, according to Chat:

There’s no officially recognized or widely used clinical term specifically for a phobia of vote-counting. However, one could coin a neologism using Greek or Latin roots, as is common in naming phobias. For example:

“Psēphophobia” – from the Greek psēphos (ψῆφος), meaning pebble (which the ancient Greeks used to cast votes), plus -phobia (fear).
This could be loosely translated as “fear of voting or vote-counting.”

Here's Dickson: https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionPage-31496-252.htm

Anthony Green has just said that the Liberal Party cannot win.

Yeah they're calling it already. Damn it'll be an early night.

Looks as if Jessie Price (ind) will win Bean from the ALP

My electorate. The Libs had no hope, but to go to an independent would be a novelty for the ACT.

Two women have mashed the potato.

<Ellie Smith (ind)'s preferences will push Ali France (ALP) over the line.>

Looks like the Libs will be working from home.

Looks like Dutton (opposition leader) has lost his seat! If so I would think it likely that his political career is over. Won’t be missed, by me, anyway.

:up: I'm very pleased Hamer stiffed in Kooyong too. Her ditzy, born to rule TikToks were anathema.

So who will be the next Liberal leader?

And will they decide that having policies rather than talking points is a good idea?