I do not argue against the existence of any one thing that we can apprehend, either by sense or reflection. That the things I see with my eyes and touch with my hands do exist, really exist, I make not the least question. The only thing whose existence we deny is that which philosophers call ‘matter’ or ‘corporeal substance’. ¹
Perhaps, as "Schrödinger Cat" as well as e.g. Einstein, Popper, Hawking, Penrose, Deutsch et al suggest, "quantum physics" provides an extremely precise yet mathematically incomplete model of "reality" – how does quantum measurement happen? – that is (epistemically?) inconsistent with classical scale scientific realism (re: definite un/observables / locality). I suspect, 'absent solving 'the measurement problem', physicists like d’Espagnat make a metaphysical Mind-of-the-gaps faux pas.As d’Espagnat famouslyobserved[assumed], quantum physics suggests that “reality is not wholly real” in the classical sense presupposed by scientific realism. — Wayfarer
By contrast, the word objective, in its modern philosophical usage — “not dependent on the mind for existence” — entered the English lexicon only in the early 17th century, during the formative period of modern science, marked by the shift away from the philosophy of the medievals. This marks a profound shift in the way existence itself was understood. As noted, for medieval and pre-modern philosophy, the real is the intelligible, and to know what is real is to participate in a cosmos imbued with meaning, value, and purpose. But in the new, scientific outlook, to be real increasingly meant to be mind-independent — and knowledge of it was understood to be describable in purely quantitative, mechanical terms, independently of any observer. The implicit result is that reality–as–such is something we are apart from, outside of, separate to.
This conceptual shift took decisive form in the work of Galileo, Descartes, and John Locke (against whom most of Berkeley’s polemics were directed). Galileo proposed that the “book of nature” is written in the language of mathematics, and that only its measurable attributes — shape, number, motion — belonged to nature herself⁴. — Wayfarer
George Berkeley....................best known for his philosophy of immaterialism — the view that physical objects exist only if perceived — Wayfarer
What Berkeley objected to was the notion of an unknowable stuff underlying experience — an abstraction he believed served no explanatory purpose and in fact led to skepticism. His philosophy was intended as a corrective to this, affirming instead that the world is as it appears to us in experience — Wayfarer
What Berkeley objected to was the notion of an unknowable stuff underlying experience — an abstraction he believed served no explanatory purpose and in fact led to skepticism. His philosophy was intended as a corrective to this, affirming instead that the world is as it appears to us in experience — vivid, structured, and meaningful, but always in relation to a mind — although importantly for Berkeley, as a Christian Bishop, the mind of God served as a kind of universal guarantor of reality, as by Him all things were perceived, and so maintained in existence. — Wayfarer
Berkeley's Idealism may still be a relevant metaphysical theory, but the general physical understanding has evolved beyond primitive Materialism since the 17th century. For example, I'm currently reading a science/philosophy book by James Glattfelder --- physicist, financial quant, and complexity theorist --- The Sapient Cosmos. A key conclusion is that the physical universe is guided by a Teleological Purpose, somewhat more cryptic than the Genesis gene-centric command : "be fruitful and multiply . . . . fill the Earth and subdue it".Abstract: Berkeley’s idealism should be reinterpreted not as an outmoded metaphysical theory, but as a philosophically astute protest against the “great abstraction” initiated by the scientific revolution — a defense of the primacy of experience and the indispensability of the observer, in a historical moment when knowledge was being severed from consciousness in favor of a disembodied ‘view from nowhere’. — Wayfarer
Perhaps, as "Schrödinger Cat" as well as e.g. Einstein, Popper, Hawking, Penrose, Deutsch et al suggest, "quantum physics" provides an extremely precise yet mathematically incomplete model of "reality" — 180 Proof
(3) Finally, a mechanical world where only numbers, shape, motion ignores the observers entirely. We belong in the world, as tangible, perceptible objects that have a central doing in existence. — L'éléphant
if the 'reality beyond/prior to phenomena' is unknowable, how could our cognitive faculties be able to 'order' appearances in the first place? — boundless
I think if he had been around in the early twentieth century he would have been a logical positivist and then made the natural adjustments in light of post-positivism. — Apustimelogist
The Sapient Cosmos. — Gnomon
physicalism has unwittingly been adopted by most scientifically-minded people who believe it to be a scientific claim. This, however, is a category mistake, as it conflates the descriptive scope of science with a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality. — James Glattfelder
Do you think the Cosmos is currently Conscious, or is it evolving toward Collective Sentience, or was the First Cause of the evolutionary program Sentient in some sense? — Gnomon
Man is that part of reality in which and through which the cosmic process has become conscious and has begun to comprehend itself. His supreme task is to increase that conscious comprehension and to apply it as fully as possible to guide the course of events. In other words, his role is to discover his destiny as an agent of the evolutionary process, in order to fulfill it more adequately. — Julian Huxley, Religion without Revelation, (London: Max Parrish, 1959), 236.
Berkeley's metaphysical idealism is polar opposite to logical positivism's hardline materialism. — Wayfarer
I don't think he would have been impressed with Kastrup's view which seems to always be alluding to something mysterious under the hood. — Apustimelogist
Humans cannot perceive Black Holes.
They may be inferred, but they cannot be perceived in Berkeley's terms.
Would it be Berkeley's position that Black Holes don't exist? — RussellA
Yes, but the positivists detested metaphysics. How would Berkeley have been received, explaining that everything is kept in existence by being perceived by God, in that environment? — Wayfarer
Bernardo Kastrup never says that. His analytical idealism says that the reality of phenomenal experience is the fundamental fact of existence. — Wayfarer
have seen (Kastrup) talk about quantum theory and about how he thinks the alleged falsification of "realism" there is some kind of indication that these physical things are only appearances and whats really going on is something deeper. — Apustimelogist
His first employment was at CERN — Wayfarer
He doesn't seem to have a physics PHD. — Apustimelogist
We noted above that what Berkeley denies is not the reality of the objects of sense, but of a material substance — something which underlies and stands apart from the objects it comprises. — Wayfarer
Kant doesn’t say our faculties impose order on “reality in itself” — only on the raw manifold of intuition as it is given to us. — Wayfarer
Why would it be thought that material substance "stands apart from the objects it comprises" if it is what constitutes them? — Janus
Should we take science as our guide to determine which seems more plausible, or should we take our imagination, intuitions, feelings and wishes? — Janus
Should we take science as our guide to determine which seems more plausible, or should we take our imagination, intuitions, wishes and so on? — Janus
Recall that in the early modern scientific model, the measurable attributes of bodies were said to be different from how the object appeared to the senses. This is central to the 'great abstraction' of physics that Berkeley was criticising. — Wayfarer
Perhaps we could study philosophy, and also study philosophically, rather than referring everything to science as the arbiter of reality. — Wayfarer
Science provides no guidance on this. It is a metaphysical question. The fundamental matter/energy assumption falls to infinite regress in scientific experimentation. — Metaphysician Undercover
The question of interpretion of physics is as much one of philosophy as of physics. And Kastrup has got considerable practical experience in physics — Wayfarer
Do you have a reference or an argument for your 'fundamental matter/ energy' claim? — Janus
Every proposed fundamental particle has been broken down into further particles in experimentation, implying infinite regress. — Metaphysician Undercover
there is no like established consensus or even empirical accessibility on these issues where you could appeal to an expert's opinion on "realism" in QM as reliable or unimpeachable. All the experts have different opinions in this field. — Apustimelogist
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